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Since i have been around this Q stuff longer than almost all of you guys... and I have a good memory... I can tell you that as original QUICKTALK editor the most heartening times
was when a builder/pilot had an accident then had the guts to tell us about it, usually with photos. We learned. A number of pilots
did this... look thru old Q-Talks to see. I remember at least 2 guys, now dead, who resisted listening to experience talking. As a pre-web
editor we didn't re-hash it ad infinitum. That was editing then... now we have the internet.
This is not Sam H's first rodeo. He has consistently and for long years shared his experiences with his successful and very high
time aircraft. He's already doing it again. We will benefit. From all the accounts that I know he is a good pilot, a thoughtful man
and a good teacher. He already knows the lesson he learned. Now he has a mess to clean up.
Three cheers for all you guys who IMMEDIATELY stepped up ready to help Sam get his aircraft back home. That has been another
satisfying hallmark of the QBA over the years. I'm glad we still have it.
Somebody once wrote: AVIATION IS A HARD TEACHER... IT GIVES THE TEST FIRST AND THE LESSON AFTERWARD.
J.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: fisherb
To: Sam Hoskins ; Quickie List
Sent: Thu, Sep 5, 2013 10:56 pm
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle
Some of the people on this list are clearly missing the point of it.
The point is to share good and bad experience with the group in hope of making a safer fleet, this includes judgment calls. The biggest point to be taking has been sadly missed by all so I will say it in hope of saving others. Sam one of the best builders, flying one of the best airplanes, with almost the most time in type had a problem. What the problem is, is a scary ground issue caused by the vary wide gear " that acts as a long lever ARM"and any additional drag even a sticky brake could give the same resolt. Other planes with narrow gear, bigger rudder and slower speeds would likly be unaffected. DON'T BE ASSHOLES SHARE, LEAR IT COULD SAVE LIVES.
Bart tri Q200
Sent from my HTC on the Now Network from Sprint!
I'm starting to get pissed off. Read my first post in this thread.
Enough.
Sam
Sent via wireless gizmo.
On Sep 4, 2013 10:00 PM, "Me" < oldjagman@...> wrote:
Not to cast aspersions, but from where did the takeoff roll begin?
Ok.... Pure conjecture, as I wasn't there...
Pilot had to either back taxi past it, or thru it
or
take off from the reciprocal, in order to experience it's power to alter the path of the aircraft.
If the latter, he should have been airborne, long before the puddle became a factor.
Either of which, in conjecture, points towards the elephant...
Charlie
There is an elephant in the room that no one sees... pilot error.
FAA regs put the onus on the pilot to know ABSOLUTELY EVERYthing about the flight we are about to take.
Do we do it... NO, and we are all guilty of it and 99% of the time we get away with it.
The puddle didn't jump out and attack Sam.
j. (a past remorseful victim of pilot error)
-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Hoskins < sam.hoskins@...>
To: Quickie List < Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Wed, Sep 4, 2013 7:21 pm
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle
That's kind of what the FAA said.
Sam
Sent via wireless gizmo.
On Sep 4, 2013 6:53 PM, "John Hartley" < john.hartley1@...> wrote:
If you zoom in enough, you can see where they painted AROUND the puddle - obviously a reoccurring problem. I don't know the required criteria, but it seems like there should have at least been a notam?
-------- Original message --------
From: dan@...
Date: 09/02/2013 9:23 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle
Puddle? Looks like a nice swimming hole. . . If it wasn't on an
active runway!
A picture is worth a thousand words, so here's a link:
http://goo.gl/ww7PHY
I'm so sorry Sammy. . . but I'm glad you're
both safe. Please keep us posted on your progress home.
Thanks,
Dan
Yager
QBA Editor
www.quickheads.com
On 2013-09-01 20:23, Sam Hoskins
wrote:
> I was surprised to see that it was well established. Look for
KPJC in
> Google Earth or Maps. The black puddle is there right between
runway 17 and
> the displaced threshold.
>
> I don't know why I didn't
view it as a hazard.
>
> Sent via wireless gizmo.
>
> Sam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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|
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Sam Hoskins
So let's see. Well these discussions have been going on I have:
Borrowed a dial indicator to put on the crankshaft.
Made arrangements for working in a heated hanger for the winter.
Overhauled my epoxy pump
Bought a virgin kit for spars and foam.
Made arrangements with Craig Catto for a new prop.
Talked to some very knowledgeable engine guys.
Made a mental goal (commitment) to have this thing at Oshkosh next year, my 23rd.
Sam
Sent via wireless gizmo.
Since i have been around this Q stuff longer than almost all of you guys... and I have a good memory... I can tell you that as original QUICKTALK editor the most heartening times
was when a builder/pilot had an accident then had the guts to tell us about it, usually with photos. We learned. A number of pilots
did this... look thru old Q-Talks to see. I remember at least 2 guys, now dead, who resisted listening to experience talking. As a pre-web
editor we didn't re-hash it ad infinitum. That was editing then... now we have the internet.
This is not Sam H's first rodeo. He has consistently and for long years shared his experiences with his successful and very high
time aircraft. He's already doing it again. We will benefit. From all the accounts that I know he is a good pilot, a thoughtful man
and a good teacher. He already knows the lesson he learned. Now he has a mess to clean up.
Three cheers for all you guys who IMMEDIATELY stepped up ready to help Sam get his aircraft back home. That has been another
satisfying hallmark of the QBA over the years. I'm glad we still have it.
Somebody once wrote: AVIATION IS A HARD TEACHER... IT GIVES THE TEST FIRST AND THE LESSON AFTERWARD.
J.
-----Original Message-----
From: fisherb < fisherb@...>
To: Sam Hoskins < sam.hoskins@...>; Quickie List < Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Thu, Sep 5, 2013 10:56 pm
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle
Some of the people on this list are clearly missing the point of it.
The point is to share good and bad experience with the group in hope of making a safer fleet, this includes judgment calls. The biggest point to be taking has been sadly missed by all so I will say it in hope of saving others. Sam one of the best builders, flying one of the best airplanes, with almost the most time in type had a problem. What the problem is, is a scary ground issue caused by the vary wide gear " that acts as a long lever ARM"and any additional drag even a sticky brake could give the same resolt. Other planes with narrow gear, bigger rudder and slower speeds would likly be unaffected. DON'T BE ASSHOLES SHARE, LEAR IT COULD SAVE LIVES.
Bart tri Q200
Sent from my HTC on the Now Network from Sprint!
----- Reply message -----
From: "Sam Hoskins" < sam.hoskins@...>
Date: Wed, Sep 4, 2013 11:04 pm
Subject: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle
To: "Quickie List" < Q-LIST@...>
I'm starting to get pissed off. Read my first post in this thread.
Enough.
Sam
Sent via wireless gizmo.
On Sep 4, 2013 10:00 PM, "Me" < oldjagman@...> wrote:
Not to cast aspersions, but from where did the takeoff roll begin?
Ok.... Pure conjecture, as I wasn't there...
Pilot had to either back taxi past it, or thru it
or
take off from the reciprocal, in order to experience it's power to alter the path of the aircraft.
If the latter, he should have been airborne, long before the puddle became a factor.
Either of which, in conjecture, points towards the elephant...
Charlie
There is an elephant in the room that no one sees... pilot error.
FAA regs put the onus on the pilot to know ABSOLUTELY EVERYthing about the flight we are about to take.
Do we do it... NO, and we are all guilty of it and 99% of the time we get away with it.
The puddle didn't jump out and attack Sam.
j. (a past remorseful victim of pilot error)
-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Hoskins < sam.hoskins@...>
To: Quickie List < Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Wed, Sep 4, 2013 7:21 pm
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle
That's kind of what the FAA said.
Sam
Sent via wireless gizmo.
On Sep 4, 2013 6:53 PM, "John Hartley" < john.hartley1@...> wrote:
If you zoom in enough, you can see where they painted AROUND the puddle - obviously a reoccurring problem. I don't know the required criteria, but it seems like there should have at least been a notam?
-------- Original message --------
From: dan@...
Date: 09/02/2013 9:23 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle
Puddle? Looks like a nice swimming hole. . . If it wasn't on an
active runway!
A picture is worth a thousand words, so here's a link:
http://goo.gl/ww7PHY
I'm so sorry Sammy. . . but I'm glad you're
both safe. Please keep us posted on your progress home.
Thanks,
Dan
Yager
QBA Editor
www.quickheads.com
On 2013-09-01 20:23, Sam Hoskins
wrote:
> I was surprised to see that it was well established. Look for
KPJC in
> Google Earth or Maps. The black puddle is there right between
runway 17 and
> the displaced threshold.
>
> I don't know why I didn't
view it as a hazard.
>
> Sent via wireless gizmo.
>
> Sam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Bruce Crain
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Agreed.
Give the man a break!
He has only just given himself one and of the kind that would probably be hauntingly depressing if it happened to anyone of us with so much time and energy invested.
Flying and flying Quickies especially will never be a risk free pursuit, but it one we accept as being manageable. I would not be surprised if Sam didn't already accept this as a successful outcome under the circumstances.
You only have to consider what else might have happened.
A low hours/lesser mortal could have been hanging upside down surrounded by leaking fuel just as night follows day but he wasn't.
I have taken off normally in a Q-235 only to have all hell brake loose on touch down. My friend who built it had fitted 2 ply 400x4 tyres to keep the size of the wheel pants and the weight down. He had also fitted excellent long brake levers.
We got away with it but only just!!! Six ply tyres are on it now. A puncture during take off leaking air in flight is invisible from the cockpit. I always land with my hand ready ON the dual brake leavers now having experienced a potential very bad hair day.
If you want a good data point for yourself let all the air out of one tyre and then try moving it. Until you do that you have been warned. I suggest you heed the warning puddle or no puddle!
On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 4:18 AM, <JMasal@...> wrote:
Since i have been around this Q stuff longer than almost all of you guys... and I have a good memory... I can tell you that as original QUICKTALK editor the most heartening times
was when a builder/pilot had an accident then had the guts to tell us about it, usually with photos. We learned. A number of pilots
did this... look thru old Q-Talks to see. I remember at least 2 guys, now dead, who resisted listening to experience talking. As a pre-web
editor we didn't re-hash it ad infinitum. That was editing then... now we have the internet.
This is not Sam H's first rodeo. He has consistently and for long years shared his experiences with his successful and very high
time aircraft. He's already doing it again. We will benefit. From all the accounts that I know he is a good pilot, a thoughtful man
and a good teacher. He already knows the lesson he learned. Now he has a mess to clean up.
Three cheers for all you guys who IMMEDIATELY stepped up ready to help Sam get his aircraft back home. That has been another
satisfying hallmark of the QBA over the years. I'm glad we still have it.
Somebody once wrote: AVIATION IS A HARD TEACHER... IT GIVES THE TEST FIRST AND THE LESSON AFTERWARD.
J.
-----Original Message-----
From: fisherb < fisherb@...>
To: Sam Hoskins < sam.hoskins@...>; Quickie List < Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Thu, Sep 5, 2013 10:56 pm
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle
Some of the people on this list are clearly missing the point of it.
The point is to share good and bad experience with the group in hope of making a safer fleet, this includes judgment calls. The biggest point to be taking has been sadly missed by all so I will say it in hope of saving others. Sam one of the best builders, flying one of the best airplanes, with almost the most time in type had a problem. What the problem is, is a scary ground issue caused by the vary wide gear " that acts as a long lever ARM"and any additional drag even a sticky brake could give the same resolt. Other planes with narrow gear, bigger rudder and slower speeds would likly be unaffected. DON'T BE ASSHOLES SHARE, LEAR IT COULD SAVE LIVES.
Bart tri Q200
Sent from my HTC on the Now Network from Sprint!
----- Reply message -----
From: "Sam Hoskins" < sam.hoskins@...>
Date: Wed, Sep 4, 2013 11:04 pm
Subject: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle
To: "Quickie List" < Q-LIST@...>
I'm starting to get pissed off. Read my first post in this thread.
Enough.
Sam
Sent via wireless gizmo.
On Sep 4, 2013 10:00 PM, "Me" < oldjagman@...> wrote:
Not to cast aspersions, but from where did the takeoff roll begin?
Ok.... Pure conjecture, as I wasn't there...
Pilot had to either back taxi past it, or thru it
or
take off from the reciprocal, in order to experience it's power to alter the path of the aircraft.
If the latter, he should have been airborne, long before the puddle became a factor.
Either of which, in conjecture, points towards the elephant...
Charlie
There is an elephant in the room that no one sees... pilot error.
FAA regs put the onus on the pilot to know ABSOLUTELY EVERYthing about the flight we are about to take.
Do we do it... NO, and we are all guilty of it and 99% of the time we get away with it.
The puddle didn't jump out and attack Sam.
j. (a past remorseful victim of pilot error)
-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Hoskins < sam.hoskins@...>
To: Quickie List < Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Wed, Sep 4, 2013 7:21 pm
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle
That's kind of what the FAA said.
Sam
Sent via wireless gizmo.
On Sep 4, 2013 6:53 PM, "John Hartley" < john.hartley1@...> wrote:
If you zoom in enough, you can see where they painted AROUND the puddle - obviously a reoccurring problem. I don't know the required criteria, but it seems like there should have at least been a notam?
-------- Original message --------
From: dan@...
Date: 09/02/2013 9:23 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] The Offending Puddle
Puddle? Looks like a nice swimming hole. . . If it wasn't on an
active runway!
A picture is worth a thousand words, so here's a link:
http://goo.gl/ww7PHY
I'm so sorry Sammy. . . but I'm glad you're
both safe. Please keep us posted on your progress home.
Thanks,
Dan
Yager
QBA Editor
www.quickheads.com
On 2013-09-01 20:23, Sam Hoskins
wrote:
> I was surprised to see that it was well established. Look for
KPJC in
> Google Earth or Maps. The black puddle is there right between
runway 17 and
> the displaced threshold.
>
> I don't know why I didn't
view it as a hazard.
>
> Sent via wireless gizmo.
>
> Sam
|
|
|
I think people have mainly been commenting on the generalities of such accidents and who may or may not be responsible for damaged or contaminated runways. Probably would have been better to change the subject to make it clearer that it wasn't just about one specific accident.
--- In Q-LIST@..., <q-list@...> wrote: Agreed.
Give the man a break!
He has only just given himself one and of the kind that would probably be hauntingly depressing if it happened to anyone of us with so much time and energy invested.
Flying and flying Quickies especially will never be a risk free pursuit, but it one we accept as being manageable. I would not be surprised if Sam didn't already accept this as a successful outcome under the circumstances.
You only have to consider what else might have happened.
A low hours/lesser mortal could have been hanging upside down surrounded by leaking fuel just as night follows day but he wasn't.
I have taken off normally in a Q-235 only to have all hell brake loose on touch down. My friend who built it had fitted 2 ply 400x4 tyres to keep the size of the wheel pants and the weight down. He had also fitted excellent long brake levers.
We got away with it but only just!!! Six ply tyres are on it now. A puncture during take off leaking air in flight is invisible from the cockpit. I always land with my hand ready ON the dual brake leavers now having experienced a potential very bad hair day.
If you want a good data point for yourself let all the air out of one tyre and then try moving it. Until you do that you have been warned. I suggest you heed the warning puddle or no puddle!
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