Tri-Q finish weight and balance estimate


Jay Scheevel
 

Hi All,

I have been noodling out some final weight and balance estimates for my Tri-Q. The biggest unknown remaining for me is the finish/paint and just where the cg of this is located. I am still a bit up in the air on what will be the total weight of the finish, but I am estimating about 30 pounds for the time being. I built a 3D virtual computer model of the outer skin of my plane (actually only the right half, since both halves are symmetrical), then fitted it with uniformly thick layer of small cubes covering the skin (these cubes are called voxels is the modeling lingo--picture below). This allowed me to compute the cg for a uniformly thick layer of finish. That computation works out to be located at FS 69.7, for what that is worth. I am sure uniform thickness is not a perfect assumption, but at least I have a starting point for adding paint to my overall cg computation. Comments welcome.

Hope you all have a great 2016. I know it will be memorable for me if I get my bird in the air this year.

Jay Scheevel, Tri-Q, still building


Bruce Crain
 


Kevin Boddicker
 

THAT is a matter of opinion!!! 



On Dec 28, 2015, at 1:42 PM, 'jcrain2@...' jcrain2@... [Q-LIST] wrote:

 

Nope!  No lead in the tail.  650 lbs is great for a TriQ!  You're the wizard Jay!
Bruce

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "jay@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...>
To: <Q-LIST@...>
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Tri-Q finish weight and balance estimate
Date: 28 Dec 2015 09:09:04 -0800


 

Thanks Paul,

Good point about the canopy :-) My canopy has two doors and an overhead support beam, so will take some paint in that general vicinity. I intentionally let the rest of the calculation slide since it came out to be that the overall paint cg was quite near the canopy anyway.  I will clip out the glass area in the model and see if it makes a difference (easy to do).  I am being careful about the cg in advance rather than adjusting via battery placement, since I will not be using heavy lead-acid batteries. I will use the Aerovolt Fe-Li batteries which only weigh a few pounds. I would like to keep all that high-current stuff near to or on the firewall, and it looks like I will be able to do that. If not, Bruce knows how to install lead in the tail and I will ask him for advice :-) Got my fingers crossed that I will come in near 650 pounds empty weight and close to where I want to be on empty cg. Looks doable right now.

Cheers,
Jay

 


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Martin Skiby
 

Jay,

Nice job on getting close.  I don't know if you remember me but you loaned me your incidence tool for the main wing and I bought your extra nose gear.  Anyway we completed (finally) the project and it flew a few weeks ago.  The CG ended up at 39.6 inches and with all in our weight was 725lbs for the TriQ200.  The CG worked out with my son at 190 to just be at the forward end of the range when he flew it and it went very well.  I will attach a spreadsheet that I did for the TriQ200 that may assist in some calculations.

My son did the standard taxi tests at increasing speeds and after about 4 of them pulled it off and flew like a champ.  Only needed some additional trim on the ailerons so it would quit turning left with him in the seat.

Also the incidence we set seems to be nearly perfect but I wish I would have raised the back of the wing just a bit more for a little less incidence in the main wing.  We are running the reflexer jsut about 1/8 inch up to trim the elevators to perfect.  She is doing passes at 205 indicated with no wheel pants.  I will post some photos also.

Please let me know if I can help in any way to get you in the air.

Martin Skiby


Jay Scheevel
 

Hi Martin,

Yes, I remember you using the tool, and also you may remember that I made a quick stop to see it after you had installed the new wing when I was in Bakersfield for work. You bought me a nice lunch at the diner near the field. Thanks for that.

I have the spreadsheet from your wing/canard measurements and it shows that you are flying at about minus 0.5 degrees decalage, which is just shy of the minus 1 decalage in the original Q-200 (N81QA). The majority of the Tri-Q's have a more negative decalage (meaning any combination of MW trailing edge higher or Canard leading edge higher). That is apparently where you would have preferred based on your comment that you would like to lose the need for reflexor.  I think you are in a nice place for flight if you are seeing airspeeds that high with no wheel pants. The plane looks really fast, so I am sure that helps :-) I hope to be joining you in the air in 2016. Congratulations to you and your son for a job well done.

Cheers,
Jay


Mike Dwyer
 

I call BS on a tri Q going 205.   He didn't put the units in so maybe it's in a dive or maybe he's using kilometers per hour!  Maybe an AS calibration is in need?
Happy new year.
Mike Q200

On Dec 30, 2015 10:55 AM, "mskiby@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

Jay,


Nice job on getting close.  I don't know if you remember me but you loaned me your incidence tool for the main wing and I bought your extra nose gear.  Anyway we completed (finally) the project and it flew a few weeks ago.  The CG ended up at 39.6 inches and with all in our weight was 725lbs for the TriQ200.  The CG worked out with my son at 190 to just be at the forward end of the range when he flew it and it went very well.  I will attach a spreadsheet that I did for the TriQ200 that may assist in some calculations.

My son did the standard taxi tests at increasing speeds and after about 4 of them pulled it off and flew like a champ.  Only needed some additional trim on the ailerons so it would quit turning left with him in the seat.

Also the incidence we set seems to be nearly perfect but I wish I would have raised the back of the wing just a bit more for a little less incidence in the main wing.  We are running the reflexer jsut about 1/8 inch up to trim the elevators to perfect.  She is doing passes at 205 indicated with no wheel pants.  I will post some photos also.

Please let me know if I can help in any way to get you in the air.

Martin Skiby


Martin Skiby
 

Mike, just going by the pilot claim on the pass. We will do some additional testing fur sure however this has always been a quick plane and we did do a few more improvements in the rebuild. Let's hope we are accurate and can prove it. Wouldn't that be great!

Martin


Martin Skiby
 

it is faster than you will expect.  Will verify soon. :)


Sam Hoskins
 

Speed is best verified in a SARL race. When the flag drops, the B.S. stops.




On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 1:54 PM, mskiby@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

it is faster than you will expect.  Will verify soon. :)



Martin Skiby
 

Sam I notice every one of those races are back East.  Texas is the closest.  Any change of holding them in the West Coast some time?


Sam Hoskins
 

Sure - Just organize one and they will come.  Richard K and I are two Q-listers who have organized races. You can make it three.

I think there is one in Washington state.

On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 2:10 PM, mskiby@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

Sam I notice every one of those races are back East.  Texas is the closest.  Any change of holding them in the West Coast some time?



Martin Skiby
 

Exactly.  My wife won the Copperstate Dash three years in a row and took the Sun 100 in her Vari Eze.  No BS.  We we know a few things about making things go as fast as possible.  :)


Reg Clarke <airryder@...>
 

This is my Favourite Saying, --Sam- say it again Sam
Reg Clarke




On Dec 31, 2015, at 13:01, Sam Hoskins sam.hoskins@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Speed is best verified in a SARL race. When the flag drops, the B.S. stops.




On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 1:54 PM, mskiby@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

it is faster than you will expect.  Will verify soon. :)



Mike Dwyer
 

LOL, Happy New Year everyone.  I hope to get the first Q flight of 2016 in so report in if you get your Q up tomorrow!  I'm gona take her up to 300 at least!
Mike N3QP Q200

On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 4:00 PM, Reg Clarke airryder@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

This is my Favourite Saying, --Sam- say it again Sam
Reg Clarke




On Dec 31, 2015, at 13:01, Sam Hoskins sam.hoskins@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Speed is best verified in a SARL race. When the flag drops, the B.S. stops.




On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 1:54 PM, mskiby@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

it is faster than you will expect.  Will verify soon. :)




mylittlemgb@...
 

I'm with Sam, and I would be happy to supply you with all the info you need to host a race. They do take a bit of work the first time but they are great fun. I guess the have to be since I am now hosting 4 of them a year. Not only are they great for seeing what your plane can do but they also really help improve your pilot skills which also helps make the plane faster. I wish we could see more Q's and Dragonfly's come out for these event's.

Richard Kaczmarek
Fast Little Airplanes
Host of:
Race to the Sun
Palmetto 100
MERFI 50/150
Southern Nationals 125


Martin Skiby
 

This would be great. I absolutely am interested in getting something started in CA. There are a few Q200 guys in the Livermore area that I can maybe convince to participate as well.


Jay Scheevel
 

I'll get there if I can :-)

Cheers,
Jay


Martin Skiby
 

Richard,

I have been looking thru the information on the SARL race website and discussing with several folks at the airport and there is a significant interest in having a race here in CA.

If you would not mind contacting me at mskiby@... with some pointers on how to best get started that would be awesome.  

We have been involved in racing for many years including the CAFE 400 and many CANARD events over the years but always as participants.  We would love to host at least one event per year in CA.

Thanks again and we look forward to getting this going.

Martin Skiby