Service ceiling


ryan goodman
 

Can I ask everyone what their demonstrated service ceiling has been? I just bought a tri-q that I will be getting back in the air over the coming months, but live in Colorado at almost 7k with a 14k wall to my west. So I guess its a 2 part question. I have the revmaster 2100d with upgraded cylinders and prop I'm unsure of until next week.


1. What is your demonstrated service ceiling

2. What kind of climb rate are you enjoying over 7k (ideally 7k - 15k if you have done it)


Jerry Marstall
 

Replace it with an O200.  You will need the extra power.


On Fri, Jul 29, 2016, 8:11 AM elboy0712@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

Can I ask everyone what their demonstrated service ceiling has been? I just bought a tri-q that I will be getting back in the air over the coming months, but live in Colorado at almost 7k with a 14k wall to my west. So I guess its a 2 part question. I have the revmaster 2100d with upgraded cylinders and prop I'm unsure of until next week.


1. What is your demonstrated service ceiling

2. What kind of climb rate are you enjoying over 7k (ideally 7k - 15k if you have done it)


ryan goodman
 

Long term I will definitely be upgrading. But I guess at the immediate moment I am just trying to see what everyone else is experiencing with their particular setup. This way I can get some ideas on what to expect.  


Mike Dwyer
 

I would agree.  Larry K took his Q200 to 22,000 feet one hot day over Atlanta.  I've been at 14,500 and still climbing 500 fpm with two people.
But let's see what the Q2 folks say.

Mike Q200 N3QP


On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Jerry Marstall jerrylm1986@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

Replace it with an O200.  You will need the extra power.


On Fri, Jul 29, 2016, 8:11 AM elboy0712@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

Can I ask everyone what their demonstrated service ceiling has been? I just bought a tri-q that I will be getting back in the air over the coming months, but live in Colorado at almost 7k with a 14k wall to my west. So I guess its a 2 part question. I have the revmaster 2100d with upgraded cylinders and prop I'm unsure of until next week.


1. What is your demonstrated service ceiling

2. What kind of climb rate are you enjoying over 7k (ideally 7k - 15k if you have done it)



ryan goodman
 

Hmm, I would be super curious what Larry was running and what kind of climb rate he had at that altitude. Or where it dipped below 100ft/min



Jay Scheevel
 

Jerry is right.

You could talk to Jean Paul Chevalier in Albuquerque area who flew a Tri-Q200 (O-200 engine) for a few years in Moriarity NM, which has a field elevation of around 6000'. Paul Spackman in Casper (around 5400' field elevation) which an original GU canard Q-2 with a Jabiru 3300 engine, which is lighter than an O-200 and well over 100 HP. That seems to be sufficient for him. He has a light airframe. I am installing a Jab 3300 in my Tri-Q, but I have not flown yet, my field elevation (KGJT is over 4500'). I expect it will have sufficient power.

I would not consider using lower than a nominal 100 HP engine in the mountain west. Even if you can take-off, you will have to fly at higher and higher AOA once you get to altitude and your airspeed and handling will be very doggy. A laminar flow wing (the canard, which does most of the lifting) is notoriously mushy at high AOA so it will not be a fun airplane to fly.

The Revmaster 2100DQ is nominally a 65 HP engine. This is at sea level. At 6000', this would be 53 HP and at 10000' that would drop to 45 HP.

I am attaching a plot from my computer modeling which shows performance of the Q-2 at 900 pounds gross weight (basically, just pilot and fuel), and 45 HP gets you about 125 MPH in level flight...pretty doggy for a Q-2. You would be cruising with a 4 degree AOA.

Changing to a 100 HP engine gets you 70 HP at 10000', so at least you can fly 145-150 MPH and AOA of 1-2 degrees at that altitude.

Cheers,
Jay Scheevel, Tri-Q, still building


Jay Scheevel
 

Here's the plot.

Cheers,
Jay


Jay Scheevel
 

Also, forgot to mention. That modeling is for the Q2. The Tri-Q is slower still.

Cheers,
Jay


Jay Scheevel
 

All the revmaster powered Q's I am aware of are flying out of fields that are 3000' MSL or lower. Maybe I am missing some, but that seems to be the pattern.  I would suggest talking to Dave Dugas about his revmaster powered Q-2. He has a lot of time in his. He is in Orange MA. Elevation 555'

Cheers,
Jay


ryan goodman
 

Does anyone have contact info for him? Or perhaps could pass on mine?


On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 6:30 PM, jay@... [Q-LIST]
wrote:
 

All the revmaster powered Q's I am aware of are flying out of fields that are 3000' MSL or lower. Maybe I am missing some, but that seems to be the pattern.  I would suggest talking to Dave Dugas about his revmaster powered Q-2. He has a lot of time in his. He is in Orange MA. Elevation 555'

Cheers,
Jay


Paul Fisher
 

Dave is still on his way home.  He left Oshkosh today and it looks like he got as far as Detroit:
http://aprs.fi/n68dd-11

He'll probably respond when he gets back to Massachusetts.


On Jul 29, 2016 20:20, "ryan goodman elboy0712@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

Does anyone have contact info for him? Or perhaps could pass on mine?


 

All the revmaster powered Q's I am aware of are flying out of fields that are 3000' MSL or lower. Maybe I am missing some, but that seems to be the pattern.  I would suggest talking to Dave Dugas about his revmaster powered Q-2. He has a lot of time in his. He is in Orange MA. Elevation 555'

Cheers,
Jay


Dave Dugas
 

Hi All
We didn't depart OSH until about 2pm,due to weather along with everyone else with the same idea. Over the lake we went at 5500 ft., smooth and good visibility,  and a headwind of course. 
We are spending the night in Port Huron MI,. The weather looks good the rest of the way tomorrow. 
Dave D



Sent from Samsung tablet



-------- Original message --------
From "ryan goodman elboy0712@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...>
Date: 07/29/2016 8:58 PM (GMT-05:00)
To Q-LIST@...
Subject Re: [Q-LIST] Service ceiling


 

Does anyone have contact info for him? Or perhaps could pass on mine?


 

All the revmaster powered Q's I am aware of are flying out of fields that are 3000' MSL or lower. Maybe I am missing some, but that seems to be the pattern.  I would suggest talking to Dave Dugas about his revmaster powered Q-2. He has a lot of time in his. He is in Orange MA. Elevation 555'

Cheers,
Jay


ryan goodman
 

Hey Dave. Glad you guys made it safe. The group suggested I talk to you about your performance numbers whenever you are somewhere that you have some time to chat. Safe travels and please let me know if you are available and willing to chat sometime so I can get an idea of what I am looking at in my new(new to me) tri-q ...thanks... /Ryan


Jerry Marstall <jnmarstall@...>
 

O200



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "elboy0712@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...>
Date: 7/29/16 10:46 AM (GMT-07:00)
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Service ceiling

 

Hmm, I would be super curious what Larry was running and what kind of climb rate he had at that altitude. Or where it dipped below 100ft/min



Jerry Marstall <jnmarstall@...>
 

Don't expect to fly on hot days.  Don't expect to take a passenger.
Jerry



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "elboy0712@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...>
Date: 7/29/16 9:29 AM (GMT-07:00)
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Service ceiling

 

Long term I will definitely be upgrading. But I guess at the immediate moment I am just trying to see what everyone else is experiencing with their particular setup. This way I can get some ideas on what to expect.  


ryan goodman
 

Jerry, are you flying a revmaster also? Or have you previously?


Jerry Marstall <jnmarstall@...>
 

Previously.  Block cracked at 299.6 hrs.  Having lived in western,  CO.  My experience tells me you can not safely fly a Q2 in that environment.



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "elboy0712@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...>
Date: 7/29/16 10:51 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Service ceiling

 

Jerry, are you flying a revmaster also? Or have you previously?


ryan goodman
 

Awesome, that's exactly what I'm after here. Actual experience with a similar setup and hopefully some numbers on fpm climb over 7k and ceiling. Thanks Jerry. How dod you crack the block?


On Sat, Jul 30, 2016 at 6:40 AM, Jerry Marstall jnmarstall@... [Q-LIST]
wrote:
 

Previously.  Block cracked at 299.6 hrs.  Having lived in western,  CO.  My experience tells me you can not safely fly a Q2 in that environment.



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "elboy0712@... [Q-LIST]"
Date: 7/29/16 10:51 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Service ceiling

 

Jerry, are you flying a revmaster also? Or have you previously?


Jay Scheevel
 

Ryan,

Who's airplane did you buy? When did it last fly, and where did they fly it?

Cheers,
Jay


ryan goodman
 

Im not sure who owned it previously. I bought it from Richard Kaczmarek in SC. I think he has had it in his shop for at least a short while. My understanding was that it had a medium-hard landing then sat for a while. He did most of the major stuff on it already but it will still need some TLC to get it back to good. I attached a photo in case you all know the aircraft.