Convert from Tri Gear back to tail wheel


Martin Skiby
 

Ok group.  I have a Tri Q 200 that my son and I just got flying again.  It was built by my father in law as a tail dragged and I converted to Tri gear in the 90's.  My son has a passion for the tail whelk Q200 so asked me about putting it back that way.  So NO I did not straighten the canard when I did the Tri gear so we should be able to build the structure at the end of the canard and re-insert the tail wheel.  Sounds easy right?   So my question for the group is what are the best wheel and brake set up to use?  We have toe brakes now with Matco great but I assume with the Gall alignment we need to use something else.  I would very much appreciate some guidance here on wheels, brakes, tail wheel springs etc..


Much appreciated folks.


Murry Rozansky
 

The wheels at the ends of the canard were one of Burt’s bad ideas. You are going to do a lot of work to make the plane more difficult to handle on the ground with potential structural problems. If your tri-Q is working fine, don’t take it out of service and screw it up. Buy a taildragger?
 

Sent: Monday, September 05, 2016 7:40 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Convert from Tri Gear back to tail wheel
 
 

Ok group.  I have a Tri Q 200 that my son and I just got flying again.  It was built by my father in law as a tail dragged and I converted to Tri gear in the 90's.  My son has a passion for the tail whelk Q200 so asked me about putting it back that way.  So NO I did not straighten the canard when I did the Tri gear so we should be able to build the structure at the end of the canard and re-insert the tail wheel.  Sounds easy right?   So my question for the group is what are the best wheel and brake set up to use?  We have toe brakes now with Matco great but I assume with the Gall alignment we need to use something else.  I would very much appreciate some guidance here on wheels, brakes, tail wheel springs etc..


Much appreciated folks.


Sam Hoskins
 

Oh really?

Sam

Sent via wireless Gizmo .


On Sep 5, 2016 10:22 PM, "'Murry I. Rozansky' MIRCO@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

The wheels at the ends of the canard were one of Burt’s bad ideas. You are going to do a lot of work to make the plane more difficult to handle on the ground with potential structural problems. If your tri-Q is working fine, don’t take it out of service and screw it up. Buy a taildragger?
 
Sent: Monday, September 05, 2016 7:40 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Convert from Tri Gear back to tail wheel
 
 

Ok group.  I have a Tri Q 200 that my son and I just got flying again.  It was built by my father in law as a tail dragged and I converted to Tri gear in the 90's.  My son has a passion for the tail whelk Q200 so asked me about putting it back that way.  So NO I did not straighten the canard when I did the Tri gear so we should be able to build the structure at the end of the canard and re-insert the tail wheel.  Sounds easy right?   So my question for the group is what are the best wheel and brake set up to use?  We have toe brakes now with Matco great but I assume with the Gall alignment we need to use something else.  I would very much appreciate some guidance here on wheels, brakes, tail wheel springs etc..


Much appreciated folks.


Mike Dwyer
 

Murry,  
What kind of Q do you fly?
I assume you don't.  
One of my buddies has a plaque on his wall that says " A statement not backed by data is only an opinion"

Why a taildragger?
#1 40 mph faster.
#2 Much shorter takeoff roll due to a higher angle of attack.
#3 Higher climb rate due to being lighter.

Those are pretty big if your trying to build a high performance aircraft.

Mike Dwyer Q200 N3QP

Q200 Website: http://goo.gl/V8IrJF


On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 11:00 PM, 'Murry I. Rozansky' MIRCO@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

The wheels at the ends of the canard were one of Burt’s bad ideas. You are going to do a lot of work to make the plane more difficult to handle on the ground with potential structural problems. If your tri-Q is working fine, don’t take it out of service and screw it up. Buy a taildragger?
 
Sent: Monday, September 05, 2016 7:40 PM
Subject: [Q-LIST] Convert from Tri Gear back to tail wheel
 
 

Ok group.  I have a Tri Q 200 that my son and I just got flying again.  It was built by my father in law as a tail dragged and I converted to Tri gear in the 90's.  My son has a passion for the tail whelk Q200 so asked me about putting it back that way.  So NO I did not straighten the canard when I did the Tri gear so we should be able to build the structure at the end of the canard and re-insert the tail wheel.  Sounds easy right?   So my question for the group is what are the best wheel and brake set up to use?  We have toe brakes now with Matco great but I assume with the Gall alignment we need to use something else.  I would very much appreciate some guidance here on wheels, brakes, tail wheel springs etc..


Much appreciated folks.



Mike Dwyer
 

Dear Mskiby,  I address you as that because all I know of you is your email address.
I've used the standard small wheels that came with the Q kit for 30 years.  The wheels are likely still available from people on this list.  The standard ChenShin tires are poor.  They are often not round and I had some black ones that got really bad cracks on the sidewalls.  The Lamb tires from Aircraft Spruce are not as tall so you need to plan for that in Axle placement.  After some time the Canard bows and causes wear on the inside of the tires due to the wheel no longer being vertical.  Do the wheel alignment at full gross.  A little toe in is in order.  Balance the tires.

The brakes.  Again I've been using the Airhart Hurst that came with the kit.  The pads last a real long time.  I believe I have the Larue (sp) setup and it works ok.  The wheel cyls tend to leak a bit so maybe a nice hone with new o-rings would be in order.  I feel that toe brakes might be too touchy for the tail dragger.  I still use the original left hand pull lever that goes to each wheel so I don't have differential brakes.  If I did it again I'd use the pull handle on the left side with two master cylinders, that could be rotated to apply slight differential brakes.  I feel also that the toe brakes being down the bottom of the tunnel would be a horrible bitch to work on.  I don't ever want to be upside down in there!

The tail wheel spring.  The original is 2x too small of a diameter.  Then when you build it up it will no longer fit in the original tail wheel metal fitting.  So I welded a bigger metal tube that accepts the bigger spring.  

Tail wheel pivot bolt.  The original tail wheel pivots on a AN3 bolt.  I bend that bolt every year.  I bought a bag of them.  If I had it to do again I'd use a AN4 there.

Tail wheel tire.  The original plans one was hard rubber.  It worked but didn't grip particularly well and made a ton of noise on the ground roll.  AS sells a larger softer one that works well.

Fly Safe,
Mike Q200 N3QP
 

On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 10:40 PM, mskiby@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

Ok group.  I have a Tri Q 200 that my son and I just got flying again.  It was built by my father in law as a tail dragged and I converted to Tri gear in the 90's.  My son has a passion for the tail whelk Q200 so asked me about putting it back that way.  So NO I did not straighten the canard when I did the Tri gear so we should be able to build the structure at the end of the canard and re-insert the tail wheel.  Sounds easy right?   So my question for the group is what are the best wheel and brake set up to use?  We have toe brakes now with Matco great but I assume with the Gall alignment we need to use something else.  I would very much appreciate some guidance here on wheels, brakes, tail wheel springs etc..


Much appreciated folks.



Martin Skiby
 

Yes Sam really,  My son is having a great time with the TriQ and it is very fast for what it is, but he wants to go back to the tail wheel.  I need to get him a right seat ride in one first for sure.  He is spending a ton of time flying a champ and just about everything else he can get his hands on right now.  He is a great kid and loves flying.

Any guidance you have would be great.  Thank you.


Martin Skiby
 

May be sage advise, but ours was originally built as a tail wheel plane and I converted.  I feel that the design in solid in both configurations and our plane actually was 3rd in the CAFE 400 in 1983 I believe that was the year. First year out of the shop.  There were a few issues with the original owner and the tail wheel so when i took it over it was with the agreement that I convert it to tri gear.  Has been a great plane and I flew the heck out of it for years.  Sold in 1996, hanger door fell on it in FL, bought the wreckage back from a guy in Boston in 2006.  Replaced the main wing and tail section and flying again.

So we are also building a complete new tail wheel plane, however we are now looking at just converting the one we have flying to save some time as my son has little patience and wants to fly the heck out of the plane.  Working also on three other projects.

I am getting some good responses from the group, but will consider your thoughts as well.


Martin Skiby
 

Mike,  Thank you.  And my full name is Martin Skiby.  I appreciate your response and as it turns out I found a box that came with a kit my son had purchased that has breaks and wheels in it!  So we are nearly there.  I have used the LAMB tires for years on all of the EZE projects and they are on the TriQ now as well.  When ours was first built we changed to a metal tail wheel spring but cannot remember what it was from.  I think a Soneri or something.

You have provided great info and thank you.  I will keep the group posted on the progress when we start this in the winter.


Sincerely,


Jay Scheevel
 

Hi Martin,

I would suggest that you make a quick trip up to Livermore to talk to Bob Farnum, and if the timing is right for Jim Patillo to be there, you should talk to him also. They have all the details worked out on the hardware and could advise you. I think I have an original set of the Airhart brakes, but I can't guarantee that. I will look.

Also, I would ask Bob if Jim Hamm still has his Q-200 dragger for sale. That airplane is virtually finished needing only primer and paint. It would be a quality option, and is virtually identical to Bob Farnum's, since they built them in tandem. I would suggest that, then he would have the option of flying either one.

Cheers,
Jay Scheevel, Tri-Q, still building


Martin Skiby
 

Great idea,

I do believe that Jim did sell his project, but I am yes interested in picking up a Tri Gear bird for reasonable rather than change a beautiful flying machine.  I did find a set of the Airhart brakes in a box we got with a kit we started.  Jay,  So you need to kick in the work buddy and get into the air.  You helped me get mine going and now I want to encourage you to get er done!!!

Thanks for the reply and all your help.


Jay Scheevel
 

Thanks for the encouragement Martin. Everyone has been turning up the heat lately with good success. I am filling and sanding at the moment. Moving ahead....

Cheers,
Jay


Martin Skiby
 

I need to correct this post I sent out.  To be very clear.  We have a great looking TriQ200 and now are seeking a conventional gear version.  The way it was designed with the wheels on the canard tips and a tail wheel.  I guess I had lost my mind this AM and typed in Tri Gear.

Thanks all and I have had a few folks contact me with conventional tail Q200 ships I will be considering instead of cutting up the one in the photo.

Thanks all for the compliments on the TriQ.  We are quite proud of her and she is quite fast also for the configuration.

Cheers


Martin Skiby
 

Great to hear.  


Bruce Crain
 


Martin Skiby
 

I would like to follow up on the project that Jim had.  Does anyone have a way get me in contact with him?

I spoke to him a few years ago and cannot find his info.

I do have a few questions for Jim and Bob,

Thanks all.


Jay Scheevel
 

Hi Martin,

This is Jim's company. I am not sure if these are still active, but its worth a try:
Porcine Associates
244 O'Connor Street
Menlo Park, CA 94025
(650) 326-2669 (800) 326-6272 fax (650) 326-1071

Cheers,
Jay


Martin Skiby
 

Thanks Jay!


Jim Patillo
 

Martin,

Brad Olson has a nice Q200 tail dragger with all the mods (6) we advised installing. He hasn't flown it in a couple of years now and it's hangared two rows behind me in Livermore.

Steel tail spring, 6" full swivel tail wheel, bell crank rmod, upgraded toe brakes, reflexor, speed brake,

It's fast! and was originally built by Tom Moore (Bob Malachek). He might be interested in selling.

Tail dragger is more interesting to fly and quite a bit faster.

Jim P
Q200 N46JP


Jim Patillo
 

Forgot to add he's building an RV.

Jim P


Bruce Crain