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FOAM

Rich Gillen
 

In the case of Bonding thin 2" Foam to make thicker Blocks for making Wings is a Bad Idea!
 
But something maybe worth looking into is using Cheap 2 part Liquid Epoxy Plastic that sets up at Room Temperature fairly quick, and even quicker with a little Heat applied. It is impervious to Gas, some Foam isn't, is light weight like Foam, Floats, is Colorable for many different Colors, can be Cast into about any Shape and Hard Points can be Cast in, or Fuel Tanks, Storage, etc, it's Sand able, Drillable, Glue able, etc! It does Expand when Mixed! Can be shipped in Drums, and different size Containers.
 
So the only Bad is, it needs some form of Mold that is Held together by Bolts or Clamps or Weight.
 
The Place I visited years ago that use's it extensively is Payr Products http://www.payr.com/ who Cast Engine Blocks, Transmissions, etc., out of the Stuff. Now I'm 6ft 320lbs and they had a Chevy Engine Small Block on a Engine stand, and I could stand on it. The guy showed me how the two parts can be just poured into a bucket and let sit, while we walked around the shop talking and came back maybe 30-40 minutes later and it was setup hard in the Bucket! They use molds made of thin wall Aluminum that just Clamp together, I don't remember the exact Pressure the Stuff Expands at, but it was fairly low. They were light Weight Clamps like on a Tool Box.
 
With CNC Routers fairly cheap today, even build able by the Home Guy, many Plans out there, you could make your own Molds from Wood, or Aluminum, even this Stuff can be used to make Molds for Fiberglass parts. It is Machine able also.
 
IF, you have ever looked at the Plastic Patio Deck Hardware that even in a 2x4 Size Shape you can't break it very easy, it's very similar stuff, very Strong, but very light Weight like Foam. So this stuff Cast and then wrapped in Fiberglass or Carbon Fiber would be very Strong! Even Stronger than the Foam and Fiberglass!
 
Just My 2 Cents!
 
Rich
 
 
 
In a message dated 2/8/2017 8:26:42 P.M. Central Standard Time, Q-LIST@... writes:

1a

Re: Want to post queries

Wed Feb 8, 2017 5:15 am (PST) . Posted by:

michaelphilips77

Sorry Mike, my bad.

In case of Q1, plans ask for 7" thick styrofoam for wings and canard.
But I can easily acquire 2" thick styrofoam, with same density as being sold on aircraftspruce.
Can I bond a few of them to get required thickness and hot wire them to make wings and canard?
Structural strength comes fiberglass, so I think it might not matter.
But any inputs on this is appreciated.


Uzair

One Sky Dog
 

Rich,

As a manufacturing engineer who has worked with pourable foam. In my opinion this method brings nothing to the table over the tried and true follow the plans methods and materials.

Mockup engine blocks have a totally different set of specifications.

Regards,

Charlie Johnson


On Feb 9, 2017, at 10:20 AM, Armilite@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

In the case of Bonding thin 2" Foam to make thicker Blocks for making Wings is a Bad Idea!
 
But something maybe worth looking into is using Cheap 2 part Liquid Epoxy Plastic that sets up at Room Temperature fairly quick, and even quicker with a little Heat applied. It is impervious to Gas, some Foam isn't, is light weight like Foam, Floats, is Colorable for many different Colors, can be Cast into about any Shape and Hard Points can be Cast in, or Fuel Tanks, Storage, etc, it's Sand able, Drillable, Glue able, etc! It does Expand when Mixed! Can be shipped in Drums, and different size Containers.
 
So the only Bad is, it needs some form of Mold that is Held together by Bolts or Clamps or Weight.
 
The Place I visited years ago that use's it extensively is Payr Products http://www.payr.com/ who Cast Engine Blocks, Transmissions, etc., out of the Stuff. Now I'm 6ft 320lbs and they had a Chevy Engine Small Block on a Engine stand, and I could stand on it. The guy showed me how the two parts can be just poured into a bucket and let sit, while we walked around the shop talking and came back maybe 30-40 minutes later and it was setup hard in the Bucket! They use molds made of thin wall Aluminum that just Clamp together, I don't remember the exact Pressure the Stuff Expands at, but it was fairly low. They were light Weight Clamps like on a Tool Box.
 
With CNC Routers fairly cheap today, even build able by the Home Guy, many Plans out there, you could make your own Molds from Wood, or Aluminum, even this Stuff can be used to make Molds for Fiberglass parts. It is Machine able also.
 
IF, you have ever looked at the Plastic Patio Deck Hardware that even in a 2x4 Size Shape you can't break it very easy, it's very similar stuff, very Strong, but very light Weight like Foam. So this stuff Cast and then wrapped in Fiberglass or Carbon Fiber would be very Strong! Even Stronger than the Foam and Fiberglass!
 
Just My 2 Cents!
 
Rich
 
 
 
In a message dated 2/8/2017 8:26:42 P.M. Central Standard Time, Q-LIST@... writes:

1a

Re: Want to post queries

Wed Feb 8, 2017 5:15 am (PST) . Posted by:

michaelphilips77

Sorry Mike, my bad.

In case of Q1, plans ask for 7" thick styrofoam for wings and canard.
But I can easily acquire 2" thick styrofoam, with same density as being sold on aircraftspruce.
Can I bond a few of them to get required thickness and hot wire them to make wings and canard?
Structural strength comes fiberglass, so I think it might not matter.
But any inputs on this is appreciated.


Uzair

One Sky Dog
 

Uzair,

The link below is what you are looking for, I do not know where you are located. If you have lakes around with docks you should be able to find a source. Start at your local lumber supply and ask if they can order it in for your dock.

Regards,

Charlie Johnson



On Feb 9, 2017, at 10:33 AM, Charlie oneskydog@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

Rich,

As a manufacturing engineer who has worked with pourable foam. In my opinion this method brings nothing to the table over the tried and true follow the plans methods and materials.

Mockup engine blocks have a totally different set of specifications.

Regards,

Charlie Johnson


On Feb 9, 2017, at 10:20 AM, Armilite@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

In the case of Bonding thin 2" Foam to make thicker Blocks for making Wings is a Bad Idea!
 
But something maybe worth looking into is using Cheap 2 part Liquid Epoxy Plastic that sets up at Room Temperature fairly quick, and even quicker with a little Heat applied. It is impervious to Gas, some Foam isn't, is light weight like Foam, Floats, is Colorable for many different Colors, can be Cast into about any Shape and Hard Points can be Cast in, or Fuel Tanks, Storage, etc, it's Sand able, Drillable, Glue able, etc! It does Expand when Mixed! Can be shipped in Drums, and different size Containers.
 
So the only Bad is, it needs some form of Mold that is Held together by Bolts or Clamps or Weight.
 
The Place I visited years ago that use's it extensively is Payr Products http://www.payr.com/ who Cast Engine Blocks, Transmissions, etc., out of the Stuff. Now I'm 6ft 320lbs and they had a Chevy Engine Small Block on a Engine stand, and I could stand on it. The guy showed me how the two parts can be just poured into a bucket and let sit, while we walked around the shop talking and came back maybe 30-40 minutes later and it was setup hard in the Bucket! They use molds made of thin wall Aluminum that just Clamp together, I don't remember the exact Pressure the Stuff Expands at, but it was fairly low. They were light Weight Clamps like on a Tool Box.
 
With CNC Routers fairly cheap today, even build able by the Home Guy, many Plans out there, you could make your own Molds from Wood, or Aluminum, even this Stuff can be used to make Molds for Fiberglass parts. It is Machine able also.
 
IF, you have ever looked at the Plastic Patio Deck Hardware that even in a 2x4 Size Shape you can't break it very easy, it's very similar stuff, very Strong, but very light Weight like Foam. So this stuff Cast and then wrapped in Fiberglass or Carbon Fiber would be very Strong! Even Stronger than the Foam and Fiberglass!
 
Just My 2 Cents!
 
Rich
 
 
 
In a message dated 2/8/2017 8:26:42 P.M. Central Standard Time, Q-LIST@... writes:

1a

Re: Want to post queries

Wed Feb 8, 2017 5:15 am (PST) . Posted by:

michaelphilips77

Sorry Mike, my bad.

In case of Q1, plans ask for 7" thick styrofoam for wings and canard.
But I can easily acquire 2" thick styrofoam, with same density as being sold on aircraftspruce.
Can I bond a few of them to get required thickness and hot wire them to make wings and canard?
Structural strength comes fiberglass, so I think it might not matter.
But any inputs on this is appreciated.


Uzair

David J. Gall
 

Uzair,

I bought Dow brand blue foam from a heating and air conditioning insulation supplier (wholesaler). It is more uniform than the floatation billets that Charlie mentioned, and has larger dimensions (10" thick by 96" long). It is also available as taxidermy foam. Cost is similar to floatation foam, but less work and less waste. I bought mine locally in Sacramento and brought it home in my pickup truck. Supplier even offered to slice it thinner or cut to length at no charge. Same stuff the original Quickie kit used.

David J. Gall
Gall Aerospace
One Sky Dog
 

Hi David,
Good call do you have a source or product number? All Styrofoam is Dow and flotation billets were originally called out I believe. Bulk frozen storage requires tighter density control and consistency than docks.

Best Regards,
Charlie

On Feb 10, 2017, at 10:55 AM, David@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

Uzair,

I bought Dow brand blue foam from a heating and air conditioning insulation supplier (wholesaler). It is more uniform than the floatation billets that Charlie mentioned, and has larger dimensions (10" thick by 96" long). It is also available as taxidermy foam. Cost is similar to floatation foam, but less work and less waste. I bought mine locally in Sacramento and brought it home in my pickup truck. Supplier even offered to slice it thinner or cut to length at no charge. Same stuff the original Quickie kit used.

David J. Gall
Gall Aerospace

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Posted by: David@...
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Quickie Builders Association WEB site
http://www.quickiebuilders.org


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Yahoo Groups Links
Jay Scheevel
 

Aircraft Spuce still provides this foam. More expensive probably, but it is assured of being the right stuff.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/polystyrene.php?recfer=588

Jay
Murry Rozansky
 

There are all kinds of foam. Styrofoam which is a Dow  trade mark (blue foam color is a tm too) is widely used generically. The florists foams are lower density and strength. The pour foams I have heard of are poly urethane based and in 2# density shape easily but are not dependable for core, too brittle and when hot wired produce poison gas. Pour foams can vary greatly within a pour.  Billet foam with the same chemicals and higher density can work well. It takes R&D and testing to prove. Following plans should be safe, given decent workmanship. Changes become much more experimental.
 
From: jay@... [Q-LIST]
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2017 11:11 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: FOAM
 
 

Aircraft Spuce still provides this foam. More expensive probably, but it is assured of being the right stuff.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/polystyrene.php?recfer=588

Jay
David J. Gall
 

Charlie,

No, the process was so easy and the product so ubiquitous that I didn't bother to take notes. My opinion: Dow website, do the homework, Google Maps and a phone. Can't do that? Ought not be building a plane. Rutan designed these planes before the internet, using cheap and easily sourced stuff. Spoon-feeding requirements are self-disqualifying....

David J. Gall
Gall Aerospace
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