|
Charlie:
As a Manufacturing Engineer, first you ought to really Read, and maybe
research the Product of what I said before you condemn it, I said "2 Part
Epoxy Plastic" that's Light Weight like the Blue Foam! This stuff was not even
around when Rutan, and the other's designed these Foam and Fiberglass
Airplanes, what now 35+ years ago. Quoting "Build it by the Plans" is a bunch of
crap, this Group has made many changes over the years from the
original Plans that our acceptable!
Anything, can be made better, especially as new Materials, and
Technology show's up.
Is Hot Wiring the Blue Foam Billet Blocks to make the Parts probably
the Cheapest, and Fastest way, Yes, but that doesn't necessarily make it
the Strongest, Lightest Part you can make. Even Molds are being made
faster and cheaper today. It won't be long and you will be seeing 3D Printed
Airplane Parts and whole Planes!
Now I'm not an Intelligent Mechicanical/Aerospace/Manufacturing
Engineer like you Charlie, but I do know if you Hot Wire cut that Blue Foam into
the shape of a 2" x 4" just 4ft long, and then placed blocks under the ends and
then stood on it, it would break from even a very light Person. You probably
have a Technical Term of so many lbs per sq inch for the Foam. This 2 part Epoxy
Plastic Stuff I'm talking about is as strong as a 2x4 piece of Wood or like I
said, that New Plastic Decking Material. Will it break also, Yes, everything has
it's limit's, but it would take a lot more Weight/Force to break it than
the Blue Foam can with stand!
It does have a lot of the same Quality's, Impervious to Gas, Floats, is
light Weight like Foam, etc, but also is Cast able, or Machine able! Your still
going to wrap it with either Fiberglass per the Plans, or use Carbon Fiber,
Kevlar, etc. Oh wait, they probably didn't have Carbon Fiber or Kevlar back then
either, I guess we can't use them either, since were by the Plans!
What's the Spec, lbs per Sq Inch of a 2"x4"x8' of Blue Foam, a 2"x4"x8'
Wood Building Stud, a 2"x4"x8' Plactic Deck Stud, a 2"x4"x8' Carbon Fiber Tube
vs their Weight?
But that's just my Opinion!
Rich
In a message dated 2/9/2017 8:32:02 P.M. Central Standard Time,
Q-LIST@... writes:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Thu
Feb 9, 2017 9:33 am (PST) . Posted by:
"Charlie"
one1skydog
Rich,
As
a manufacturing engineer who has worked with pourable foam. In my opinion this
method brings nothing to the table over the tried and true follow the plans
methods and materials.
Mockup engine blocks have a totally different
set of specifications.
Regards,
Charlie
Johnson
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Time to tone this down a bit Rich.
Sam Kittle, Q-List Moderator
On Feb 10, 2017, at 6:47 AM, Armilite@... [Q-LIST] < Q-LIST@...> wrote:
Charlie:
As a Manufacturing Engineer, first you ought to really Read, and maybe
research the Product of what I said before you condemn it, I said "2 Part
Epoxy Plastic" that's Light Weight like the Blue Foam! This stuff was not even
around when Rutan, and the other's designed these Foam and Fiberglass
Airplanes, what now 35+ years ago. Quoting "Build it by the Plans" is a bunch of
crap, this Group has made many changes over the years from the
original Plans that our acceptable!
Anything, can be made better, especially as new Materials, and
Technology show's up.
Is Hot Wiring the Blue Foam Billet Blocks to make the Parts probably
the Cheapest, and Fastest way, Yes, but that doesn't necessarily make it
the Strongest, Lightest Part you can make. Even Molds are being made
faster and cheaper today. It won't be long and you will be seeing 3D Printed
Airplane Parts and whole Planes!
Now I'm not an Intelligent Mechicanical/Aerospace/Manufacturing
Engineer like you Charlie, but I do know if you Hot Wire cut that Blue Foam into
the shape of a 2" x 4" just 4ft long, and then placed blocks under the ends and
then stood on it, it would break from even a very light Person. You probably
have a Technical Term of so many lbs per sq inch for the Foam. This 2 part Epoxy
Plastic Stuff I'm talking about is as strong as a 2x4 piece of Wood or like I
said, that New Plastic Decking Material. Will it break also, Yes, everything has
it's limit's, but it would take a lot more Weight/Force to break it than
the Blue Foam can with stand!
It does have a lot of the same Quality's, Impervious to Gas, Floats, is
light Weight like Foam, etc, but also is Cast able, or Machine able! Your still
going to wrap it with either Fiberglass per the Plans, or use Carbon Fiber,
Kevlar, etc. Oh wait, they probably didn't have Carbon Fiber or Kevlar back then
either, I guess we can't use them either, since were by the Plans!
What's the Spec, lbs per Sq Inch of a 2"x4"x8' of Blue Foam, a 2"x4"x8'
Wood Building Stud, a 2"x4"x8' Plactic Deck Stud, a 2"x4"x8' Carbon Fiber Tube
vs their Weight?
But that's just my Opinion!
Rich
In a message dated 2/9/2017 8:32:02 P.M. Central Standard Time,
Q-LIST@... writes:
Thu
Feb 9, 2017 9:33 am (PST) . Posted by:
"Charlie"
one1skydog
Rich,
As
a manufacturing engineer who has worked with pourable foam. In my opinion this
method brings nothing to the table over the tried and true follow the plans
methods and materials.
Mockup engine blocks have a totally different
set of specifications.
Regards,
Charlie
Johnson
|
|
|
BWTaudio werks <bwtaudiowerks@...>
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Charlie:
As a Manufacturing Engineer, first you ought to really Read, and maybe research the Product of what I said before you condemn it, I said "2 Part Epoxy Plastic" that's Light Weight like the Blue Foam! This stuff was not even around when Rutan, and the other's designed
these Foam and Fiberglass Airplanes, what now 35+ years ago. Quoting "Build it by the Plans" is a bunch of crap, this Group has made many changes over the years from the original Plans that our acceptable!
Anything, can be made better, especially as new Materials, and Technology show's up.
Is Hot Wiring the Blue Foam Billet Blocks to make the Parts probably the Cheapest, and Fastest way, Yes, but that doesn't necessarily make it the Strongest, Lightest Part you can make. Even Molds are being made faster and cheaper today. It won't be long
and you will be seeing 3D Printed Airplane Parts and whole Planes!
Now I'm not an Intelligent Mechicanical/Aerospace/Manufacturing Engineer like you Charlie, but I do know if you Hot Wire cut that Blue Foam into the shape of a 2" x 4" just 4ft long, and then placed blocks under the ends and then stood on it, it would
break from even a very light Person. You probably have a Technical Term of so many lbs per sq inch for the Foam. This 2 part Epoxy Plastic Stuff I'm talking about is as strong as a 2x4 piece of Wood or like I said, that New Plastic Decking Material. Will it
break also, Yes, everything has it's limit's, but it would take a lot more Weight/Force to break it than the Blue Foam can with stand!
It does have a lot of the same Quality's, Impervious to Gas, Floats, is light Weight like Foam, etc, but also is Cast able, or Machine able! Your still going to wrap it with either Fiberglass per the Plans, or use Carbon Fiber, Kevlar, etc. Oh wait, they
probably didn't have Carbon Fiber or Kevlar back then either, I guess we can't use them either, since were by the Plans!
What's the Spec, lbs per Sq Inch of a 2"x4"x8' of Blue Foam, a 2"x4"x8' Wood Building Stud, a 2"x4"x8' Plactic Deck Stud, a 2"x4"x8' Carbon Fiber Tube vs their Weight?
But that's just my Opinion!
Rich
In a message dated 2/9/2017 8:32:02 P.M. Central Standard Time, Q-LIST@... writes:
Thu Feb 9, 2017 9:33 am (PST) . Posted by:
"Charlie" one1skydog
Rich,
As a manufacturing engineer who has worked with pourable foam. In my opinion this method brings nothing to the table over the tried and true follow the plans methods and materials.
Mockup engine blocks have a totally different set of specifications.
Regards,
Charlie Johnson
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Rich, you may be on to something important. But all we have is research information, theoretical. Would you be willing to build a set of wings and submit them to destructive testing? Only then would we have hard data. Perhaps others in the group would chip in with expenses. But whatever you do, I urge not recommending the technique without exhaustive testing an actual wing. Rick Hole
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Hi Guys, I don't want to get into a what type of foam to use, however, you need to use full size foam blocks! If you glue narrow pieces together you will never be able to hot wire through them!
Bob Malechek An old Q builder!
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One Sky Dog
Rich,
I believe the charter of this group is to assist builders in building a Q bird according to plans.
I also believe there is a Q list for performance and out of the box discussions that do not relate to plans built planes.
I could spend about a year discussing your concept but decline. You are a sharp guy so demonstrate your concept by developing it. Make sure to keep detailed records of time, materials, and capital expenditures for the project. I am not going to respond to your personal attack you do not know what I know about 2 part foam manufacturing. I believe you are a successful businessman so proof out your concept before you throw it out as an alternative method to build a Q bird.
Regards,
Charlie Johnson Ogden, Utah
On Feb 10, 2017, at 7:47 AM, Armilite@... [Q-LIST] < Q-LIST@...> wrote:
Charlie:
As a Manufacturing Engineer, first you ought to really Read, and maybe
research the Product of what I said before you condemn it, I said "2 Part
Epoxy Plastic" that's Light Weight like the Blue Foam! This stuff was not even
around when Rutan, and the other's designed these Foam and Fiberglass
Airplanes, what now 35+ years ago. Quoting "Build it by the Plans" is a bunch of
crap, this Group has made many changes over the years from the
original Plans that our acceptable!
Anything, can be made better, especially as new Materials, and
Technology show's up.
Is Hot Wiring the Blue Foam Billet Blocks to make the Parts probably
the Cheapest, and Fastest way, Yes, but that doesn't necessarily make it
the Strongest, Lightest Part you can make. Even Molds are being made
faster and cheaper today. It won't be long and you will be seeing 3D Printed
Airplane Parts and whole Planes!
Now I'm not an Intelligent Mechicanical/Aerospace/Manufacturing
Engineer like you Charlie, but I do know if you Hot Wire cut that Blue Foam into
the shape of a 2" x 4" just 4ft long, and then placed blocks under the ends and
then stood on it, it would break from even a very light Person. You probably
have a Technical Term of so many lbs per sq inch for the Foam. This 2 part Epoxy
Plastic Stuff I'm talking about is as strong as a 2x4 piece of Wood or like I
said, that New Plastic Decking Material. Will it break also, Yes, everything has
it's limit's, but it would take a lot more Weight/Force to break it than
the Blue Foam can with stand!
It does have a lot of the same Quality's, Impervious to Gas, Floats, is
light Weight like Foam, etc, but also is Cast able, or Machine able! Your still
going to wrap it with either Fiberglass per the Plans, or use Carbon Fiber,
Kevlar, etc. Oh wait, they probably didn't have Carbon Fiber or Kevlar back then
either, I guess we can't use them either, since were by the Plans!
What's the Spec, lbs per Sq Inch of a 2"x4"x8' of Blue Foam, a 2"x4"x8'
Wood Building Stud, a 2"x4"x8' Plactic Deck Stud, a 2"x4"x8' Carbon Fiber Tube
vs their Weight?
But that's just my Opinion!
Rich
In a message dated 2/9/2017 8:32:02 P.M. Central Standard Time,
Q-LIST@... writes:
Thu
Feb 9, 2017 9:33 am (PST) . Posted by:
"Charlie"
one1skydog
Rich,
As
a manufacturing engineer who has worked with pourable foam. In my opinion this
method brings nothing to the table over the tried and true follow the plans
methods and materials.
Mockup engine blocks have a totally different
set of specifications.
Regards,
Charlie
Johnson
|
|
|
I don't know if this post is a good idea on my part as we have been trying to stay out of it but I can't help myself. We have tried out several pour foams and tested the idea. What we found and we did do testing to the point of breaking the canard. We only did it because all the materials were FREE to us. It can work it does take a bunch of time and has to be about spot on it does require a mold and I would rather just call Steve James cet precut foam and build it as the plans say it cost half as much and even with singing the sanding song the original way of doing is faster. We are now offering prebuilt composite parts and we have found another way to skin the cat but it is not an at home process because of the equipment cost. We also found that doing the wing and canard in carbon is also not a great idea just to stiff but it is more then strong enough to do the job.
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Okay, I'm a little short of cash for wing and canard, don't want to get foam for wing and then for canard. I'll work on canard and wing together. So I am going to start with fuselage section now. Question: Q1 fuselage bottom and sides use 1"(thick) and 96" length divinycell foam. Neither aircraftspruce nor wicksaircraft has this available. They both have 1"x48". The 96" length foam which they have is 2" thick, not the thickness I require and really expensive. So can I join 2 sheets of 48", to form the 96" length I require?, I even saw a EAA video which talks about joining foam cores to get the required length : Joining Foam Cores.
| | | | Joining Foam Cores EAA Technical Counselor Mike Busch shows how to join foam core pieces together to make larger foam sections. | | | |
Since aft bottom and aft top are joined the same way, I am assuming it is okay. But again, I am open to suggestions.
Thanks, Uzair
On Saturday, February 11, 2017 10:40 AM, "mylittlemgb@... [Q-LIST]" wrote:
I don't know if this post is a good idea on my part as we have been trying to stay out of it but I can't help myself. We have tried out several pour foams and tested the idea. What we found and we did do testing to the point of breaking the canard. We only did it because all the materials were FREE to us. It can work it does take a bunch of time and has to be about spot on it does require a mold and I would rather just call Steve James cet precut foam and build it as the plans say it cost half as much and even with singing the sanding song the original way of doing is faster. We are now offering prebuilt composite parts and we have found another way to skin the cat but it is not an at home process because of the equipment cost. We also found that doing the wing and canard in carbon is also not a great idea just to stiff but it is more then strong enough to do the job.
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Few things that I couldn't find in the plans: - What is the thickness of the bulkhead foams?
- What are console sides made of? thickness? density?
- What is firewall made of? in "Assembling the fuselage" section, it is shown to attach firewall to the fuselage. Apart from that I couldn't find any reference to firewall, what is it made of? thickness? density? dimensions?ply details(fiberglass) etc.
Would be helpful if I'm pointed in the right direction.
Thanks, Uzair
On Saturday, February 11, 2017 6:16 PM, "Uzair Khan uzair850@... [Q-LIST]" wrote:
Okay, I'm a little short of cash for wing and canard, don't want to get foam for wing and then for canard. I'll work on canard and wing together. So I am going to start with fuselage section now. Question: Q1 fuselage bottom and sides use 1"(thick) and 96" length divinycell foam. Neither aircraftspruce nor wicksaircraft has this available. They both have 1"x48". The 96" length foam which they have is 2" thick, not the thickness I require and really expensive. So can I join 2 sheets of 48", to form the 96" length I require?, I even saw a EAA video which talks about joining foam cores to get the required length : Joining Foam Cores.
| | | | Joining Foam Cores EAA Technical Counselor Mike Busch shows how to join foam core pieces together to make larger foam sections. | |
|
|
Since aft bottom and aft top are joined the same way, I am assuming it is okay. But again, I am open to suggestions.
Thanks, Uzair
On Saturday, February 11, 2017 10:40 AM, "mylittlemgb@... [Q-LIST]" wrote:
I don't know if this post is a good idea on my part as we have been trying to stay out of it but I can't help myself. We have tried out several pour foams and tested the idea. What we found and we did do testing to the point of breaking the canard. We only did it because all the materials were FREE to us. It can work it does take a bunch of time and has to be about spot on it does require a mold and I would rather just call Steve James cet precut foam and build it as the plans say it cost half as much and even with singing the sanding song the original way of doing is faster. We are now offering prebuilt composite parts and we have found another way to skin the cat but it is not an at home process because of the equipment cost. We also found that doing the wing and canard in carbon is also not a great idea just to stiff but it is more then strong enough to do the job.
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Sam Hoskins
Uzair.
Let me ask you a very fundamental question because I think I know the answer. Do you have a full set of the plans that you are asking questions about? It should include all the materials and a long education section that tells you how and why to get started with composite materials. Please seek out the full set of plans, from quick heads.com, and after you have received the plans and if started digest in them then make a list of questions. If you don't do that, you are just wasting a lot of people's time. Sam
Sent via wireless Gizmo.
On Feb 11, 2017 6:46 AM, "Uzair Khan uzair850@... [Q-LIST]" < Q-LIST@...> wrote:
Okay, I'm a little short of cash for wing and canard, don't want to get foam for wing and then for canard. I'll work on canard and wing together. So I am going to start with fuselage section now. Question: Q1 fuselage bottom and sides use 1"(thick) and 96" length divinycell foam. Neither aircraftspruce nor wicksaircraft has this available. They both have 1"x48". The 96" length foam which they have is 2" thick, not the thickness I require and really expensive. So can I join 2 sheets of 48", to form the 96" length I require?, I even saw a EAA video which talks about joining foam cores to get the required length : Joining Foam Cores.
| | | | Joining Foam Cores EAA Technical Counselor Mike Busch shows how to join foam core pieces together to make larger foam sections. | | | |
Since aft bottom and aft top are joined the same way, I am assuming it is okay. But again, I am open to suggestions.
Thanks, Uzair
I don't know if this post is a good idea on my part as we have been trying to stay out of it but I can't help myself. We have tried out several pour foams and tested the idea. What we found and we did do testing to the point of breaking the canard. We only did it because all the materials were FREE to us. It can work it does take a bunch of time and has to be about spot on it does require a mold and I would rather just call Steve James cet precut foam and build it as the plans say it cost half as much and even with singing the sanding song the original way of doing is faster. We are now offering prebuilt composite parts and we have found another way to skin the cat but it is not an at home process because of the equipment cost. We also found that doing the wing and canard in carbon is also not a great idea just to stiff but it is more then strong enough to do the job.
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Sam Hoskins
Sounds like you are missing the Appendix template sheets. Sam
Sent via wireless Gizmo.
On Feb 11, 2017 3:08 PM, "Uzair Khan uzair850@... [Q-LIST]" < Q-LIST@...> wrote:
Few things that I couldn't find in the plans: - What is the thickness of the bulkhead foams?
- What are console sides made of? thickness? density?
- What is firewall made of? in "Assembling the fuselage" section, it is shown to attach firewall to the fuselage. Apart from that I couldn't find any reference to firewall, what is it made of? thickness? density? dimensions?ply details(fiberglass) etc.
Would be helpful if I'm pointed in the right direction.
Thanks, Uzair
Okay, I'm a little short of cash for wing and canard, don't want to get foam for wing and then for canard. I'll work on canard and wing together. So I am going to start with fuselage section now. Question: Q1 fuselage bottom and sides use 1"(thick) and 96" length divinycell foam. Neither aircraftspruce nor wicksaircraft has this available. They both have 1"x48". The 96" length foam which they have is 2" thick, not the thickness I require and really expensive. So can I join 2 sheets of 48", to form the 96" length I require?, I even saw a EAA video which talks about joining foam cores to get the required length : Joining Foam Cores.
| | | | Joining Foam Cores EAA Technical Counselor Mike Busch shows how to join foam core pieces together to make larger foam sections. | |
|
|
Since aft bottom and aft top are joined the same way, I am assuming it is okay. But again, I am open to suggestions.
Thanks, Uzair
I don't know if this post is a good idea on my part as we have been trying to stay out of it but I can't help myself. We have tried out several pour foams and tested the idea. What we found and we did do testing to the point of breaking the canard. We only did it because all the materials were FREE to us. It can work it does take a bunch of time and has to be about spot on it does require a mold and I would rather just call Steve James cet precut foam and build it as the plans say it cost half as much and even with singing the sanding song the original way of doing is faster. We are now offering prebuilt composite parts and we have found another way to skin the cat but it is not an at home process because of the equipment cost. We also found that doing the wing and canard in carbon is also not a great idea just to stiff but it is more then strong enough to do the job.
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@Sam- I have a full set of plans brought from quickheads, Sam. Been reading them for the past few days. I think my questions are legitimate since the plans were meant to be used with a kit and hence did not find it necessary to mention certain specifics. Hope you understand my dilemma when I find it difficult to find certain things when it hasn't been clearly specified.
FYI:The plans from quickheads doesn't have materials list too , found that just now on quickheads Q1 forum posted by one builder a few years back.
Uzair
On Sunday, February 12, 2017 2:07 AM, "Sam Hoskins sam.hoskins@... [Q-LIST]" wrote:
Uzair.
Let me ask you a very fundamental question because I think I know the answer. Do you have a full set of the plans that you are asking questions about? It should include all the materials and a long education section that tells you how and why to get started with composite materials. Please seek out the full set of plans, from quick heads.com, and after you have received the plans and if started digest in them then make a list of questions. If you don't do that, you are just wasting a lot of people's time. Sam
Sent via wireless Gizmo.
On Feb 11, 2017 6:46 AM, "Uzair Khan uzair850@... [Q-LIST]" < Q-LIST@...> wrote:
Okay, I'm a little short of cash for wing and canard, don't want to get foam for wing and then for canard. I'll work on canard and wing together. So I am going to start with fuselage section now. Question: Q1 fuselage bottom and sides use 1"(thick) and 96" length divinycell foam. Neither aircraftspruce nor wicksaircraft has this available. They both have 1"x48". The 96" length foam which they have is 2" thick, not the thickness I require and really expensive. So can I join 2 sheets of 48", to form the 96" length I require?, I even saw a EAA video which talks about joining foam cores to get the required length : Joining Foam Cores.
| | | | Joining Foam Cores EAA Technical Counselor Mike Busch shows how to join foam core pieces together to make larger foam sections. | |
|
|
Since aft bottom and aft top are joined the same way, I am assuming it is okay. But again, I am open to suggestions.
Thanks, Uzair
I don't know if this post is a good idea on my part as we have been trying to stay out of it but I can't help myself. We have tried out several pour foams and tested the idea. What we found and we did do testing to the point of breaking the canard. We only did it because all the materials were FREE to us. It can work it does take a bunch of time and has to be about spot on it does require a mold and I would rather just call Steve James cet precut foam and build it as the plans say it cost half as much and even with singing the sanding song the original way of doing is faster. We are now offering prebuilt composite parts and we have found another way to skin the cat but it is not an at home process because of the equipment cost. We also found that doing the wing and canard in carbon is also not a great idea just to stiff but it is more then strong enough to do the job.
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Sam Hoskins
Okay, my bad. Do you also have the template sheets? Sam
Sent via wireless Gizmo.
On Feb 11, 2017 5:05 PM, "Uzair Khan uzair850@... [Q-LIST]" < Q-LIST@...> wrote:
@Sam- I have a full set of plans brought from quickheads, Sam. Been reading them for the past few days. I think my questions are legitimate since the plans were meant to be used with a kit and hence did not find it necessary to mention certain specifics. Hope you understand my dilemma when I find it difficult to find certain things when it hasn't been clearly specified.
FYI:The plans from quickheads doesn't have materials list too , found that just now on quickheads Q1 forum posted by one builder a few years back.
Uzair
Uzair.
Let me ask you a very fundamental question because I think I know the answer. Do you have a full set of the plans that you are asking questions about? It should include all the materials and a long education section that tells you how and why to get started with composite materials. Please seek out the full set of plans, from quick heads.com, and after you have received the plans and if started digest in them then make a list of questions. If you don't do that, you are just wasting a lot of people's time. Sam
Sent via wireless Gizmo.
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@Sam- I clearly seem to be missing appendix template that you mentioned. I have plans,LS1 templates, dxf templates of the same and pilot's manual but no appendix.
Uzair
On Sunday, February 12, 2017 4:36 AM, "Sam Hoskins sam.hoskins@... [Q-LIST]" wrote:
Okay, my bad. Do you also have the template sheets? Sam
Sent via wireless Gizmo.
On Feb 11, 2017 5:05 PM, "Uzair Khan uzair850@... [Q-LIST]" < Q-LIST@...> wrote:
@Sam- I have a full set of plans brought from quickheads, Sam. Been reading them for the past few days. I think my questions are legitimate since the plans were meant to be used with a kit and hence did not find it necessary to mention certain specifics. Hope you understand my dilemma when I find it difficult to find certain things when it hasn't been clearly specified.
FYI:The plans from quickheads doesn't have materials list too , found that just now on quickheads Q1 forum posted by one builder a few years back.
Uzair
Uzair.
Let me ask you a very fundamental question because I think I know the answer. Do you have a full set of the plans that you are asking questions about? It should include all the materials and a long education section that tells you how and why to get started with composite materials. Please seek out the full set of plans, from quick heads.com, and after you have received the plans and if started digest in them then make a list of questions. If you don't do that, you are just wasting a lot of people's time. Sam
Sent via wireless Gizmo.
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Sam Hoskins
I'm confused. You say you are working on a Q-1, but you have LS1 templates. The Q-1 is the single place Quickie and the LS1 templates are used for the two place Q- 200. Two entirely different animals.
Sam
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Read some reviews about Q1 having canard issues, being too sensitive to rain and bugs. And the solution being to add vortex generators on the canard. LS1 completely resolved that issue. And now that I have decided to build one I was thinking to go with LS1 to avoid any issues later.
Uzair
On Sunday, February 12, 2017 4:54 AM, "sam.hoskins@... [Q-LIST]" wrote:
I'm confused. You say you are working on a Q-1, but you have LS1 templates. The Q-1 is the single place Quickie and the LS1 templates are used for the two place Q- 200. Two entirely different animals.
Sam
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Sam Hoskins
Again, my bad. I had forgotten that there was any LS1 plans available for the Q1. I'm not a Q1 expert, so I'm going to step out of this now.
Maybe one of these single place quickie guys can step in and help you out. Sam
Sent via wireless Gizmo.
On Feb 11, 2017 5:40 PM, "Uzair Khan uzair850@... [Q-LIST]" < Q-LIST@...> wrote:
Read some reviews about Q1 having canard issues, being too sensitive to rain and bugs. And the solution being to add vortex generators on the canard. LS1 completely resolved that issue. And now that I have decided to build one I was thinking to go with LS1 to avoid any issues later.
Uzair
I'm confused. You say you are working on a Q-1, but you have LS1 templates. The Q-1 is the single place Quickie and the LS1 templates are used for the two place Q- 200. Two entirely different animals.
Sam
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Right on, Charlie.
It's just MY opinion that what this group needs is one more amateur smarty pants who is short of cash but knows how to build a Q
better than the many that are successfully flying. Those that build out on the fringe (or cant fly inside the envelope) give us
and HAVE given us a black eye when they roll it up into a ball. Best to stay out of the conversation.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----Original Message-----
From: Charlie oneskydog@... [Q-LIST]
To: Q-LIST
Sent: Fri, Feb 10, 2017 11:51 am
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Foam
Rich,
I believe the charter of this group is to assist builders in building a Q bird according to plans.
I also believe there is a Q list for performance and out of the box discussions that do not relate to plans built planes.
I could spend about a year discussing your concept but decline. You are a sharp guy so demonstrate your concept by developing it. Make sure to keep detailed records of time, materials, and capital expenditures for the project. I am not going to respond to your personal attack you do not know what I know about 2 part foam manufacturing. I believe you are a successful businessman so proof out your concept before you throw it out as an alternative method to build a Q bird.
Regards,
Charlie Johnson
Ogden, Utah
Charlie:
As a Manufacturing Engineer, first you ought to really Read, and maybe
research the Product of what I said before you condemn it, I said "2 Part
Epoxy Plastic" that's Light Weight like the Blue Foam! This stuff was not even
around when Rutan, and the other's designed these Foam and Fiberglass
Airplanes, what now 35+ years ago. Quoting "Build it by the Plans" is a bunch of
crap, this Group has made many changes over the years from the
original Plans that our acceptable!
Anything, can be made better, especially as new Materials, and
Technology show's up.
Is Hot Wiring the Blue Foam Billet Blocks to make the Parts probably
the Cheapest, and Fastest way, Yes, but that doesn't necessarily make it
the Strongest, Lightest Part you can make. Even Molds are being made
faster and cheaper today. It won't be long and you will be seeing 3D Printed
Airplane Parts and whole Planes!
Now I'm not an Intelligent Mechicanical/Aerospace/Manufacturing
Engineer like you Charlie, but I do know if you Hot Wire cut that Blue Foam into
the shape of a 2" x 4" just 4ft long, and then placed blocks under the ends and
then stood on it, it would break from even a very light Person. You probably
have a Technical Term of so many lbs per sq inch for the Foam. This 2 part Epoxy
Plastic Stuff I'm talking about is as strong as a 2x4 piece of Wood or like I
said, that New Plastic Decking Material. Will it break also, Yes, everything has
it's limit's, but it would take a lot more Weight/Force to break it than
the Blue Foam can with stand!
It does have a lot of the same Quality's, Impervious to Gas, Floats, is
light Weight like Foam, etc, but also is Cast able, or Machine able! Your still
going to wrap it with either Fiberglass per the Plans, or use Carbon Fiber,
Kevlar, etc. Oh wait, they probably didn't have Carbon Fiber or Kevlar back then
either, I guess we can't use them either, since were by the Plans!
What's the Spec, lbs per Sq Inch of a 2"x4"x8' of Blue Foam, a 2"x4"x8'
Wood Building Stud, a 2"x4"x8' Plactic Deck Stud, a 2"x4"x8' Carbon Fiber Tube
vs their Weight?
But that's just my Opinion!
Rich
In a message dated 2/9/2017 8:32:02 P.M. Central Standard Time,
Q-LIST@... writes:
Thu
Feb 9, 2017 9:33 am (PST) . Posted by:
"Charlie"
one1skydog
Rich,
As
a manufacturing engineer who has worked with pourable foam. In my opinion this
method brings nothing to the table over the tried and true follow the plans
methods and materials.
Mockup engine blocks have a totally different
set of specifications.
Regards,
Charlie
Johnson
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britmcman99
I recommend we initiate a new Yahoo Groups list. You can call it Q-Foam. Cheers, Phil
On Feb 11, 2017, at 5:18 PM, JMasal@... [Q-LIST] < Q-LIST@...> wrote:
Right on, Charlie.
It's just MY opinion that what this group needs is one more amateur smarty pants who is short of cash but knows how to build a Q
better than the many that are successfully flying. Those that build out on the fringe (or cant fly inside the envelope) give us
and HAVE given us a black eye when they roll it up into a ball. Best to stay out of the conversation.
----Original Message-----
From: Charlie oneskydog@... [Q-LIST] < Q-LIST@...>
To: Q-LIST < Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Fri, Feb 10, 2017 11:51 am
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Foam
Rich,
I believe the charter of this group is to assist builders in building a Q bird according to plans.
I also believe there is a Q list for performance and out of the box discussions that do not relate to plans built planes.
I could spend about a year discussing your concept but decline. You are a sharp guy so demonstrate your concept by developing it. Make sure to keep detailed records of time, materials, and capital expenditures for the project. I am not going to respond to your personal attack you do not know what I know about 2 part foam manufacturing. I believe you are a successful businessman so proof out your concept before you throw it out as an alternative method to build a Q bird.
Regards,
Charlie Johnson
Ogden, Utah
Charlie:
As a Manufacturing Engineer, first you ought to really Read, and maybe
research the Product of what I said before you condemn it, I said "2 Part
Epoxy Plastic" that's Light Weight like the Blue Foam! This stuff was not even
around when Rutan, and the other's designed these Foam and Fiberglass
Airplanes, what now 35+ years ago. Quoting "Build it by the Plans" is a bunch of
crap, this Group has made many changes over the years from the
original Plans that our acceptable!
Anything, can be made better, especially as new Materials, and
Technology show's up.
Is Hot Wiring the Blue Foam Billet Blocks to make the Parts probably
the Cheapest, and Fastest way, Yes, but that doesn't necessarily make it
the Strongest, Lightest Part you can make. Even Molds are being made
faster and cheaper today. It won't be long and you will be seeing 3D Printed
Airplane Parts and whole Planes!
Now I'm not an Intelligent Mechicanical/Aerospace/Manufacturing
Engineer like you Charlie, but I do know if you Hot Wire cut that Blue Foam into
the shape of a 2" x 4" just 4ft long, and then placed blocks under the ends and
then stood on it, it would break from even a very light Person. You probably
have a Technical Term of so many lbs per sq inch for the Foam. This 2 part Epoxy
Plastic Stuff I'm talking about is as strong as a 2x4 piece of Wood or like I
said, that New Plastic Decking Material. Will it break also, Yes, everything has
it's limit's, but it would take a lot more Weight/Force to break it than
the Blue Foam can with stand!
It does have a lot of the same Quality's, Impervious to Gas, Floats, is
light Weight like Foam, etc, but also is Cast able, or Machine able! Your still
going to wrap it with either Fiberglass per the Plans, or use Carbon Fiber,
Kevlar, etc. Oh wait, they probably didn't have Carbon Fiber or Kevlar back then
either, I guess we can't use them either, since were by the Plans!
What's the Spec, lbs per Sq Inch of a 2"x4"x8' of Blue Foam, a 2"x4"x8'
Wood Building Stud, a 2"x4"x8' Plactic Deck Stud, a 2"x4"x8' Carbon Fiber Tube
vs their Weight?
But that's just my Opinion!
Rich
In a message dated 2/9/2017 8:32:02 P.M. Central Standard Time,
Q-LIST@... writes:
Thu
Feb 9, 2017 9:33 am (PST) . Posted by:
"Charlie"
one1skydog
Rich,
As
a manufacturing engineer who has worked with pourable foam. In my opinion this
method brings nothing to the table over the tried and true follow the plans
methods and materials.
Mockup engine blocks have a totally different
set of specifications.
Regards,
Charlie
Johnson
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I say let everyone and anyone comment about anything Q related. Let's not be precious about it, the group needs livening up.
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