Fire extinguisher location


Martin Skiby
 

I feel that having a good fire extinguisher is mandatory equipment for any plane.  With that said, we have a nice place for one in our TriQ in the area over the main wing.  In the Q200 we just got flying it seems that the canopy brace partially covers the opening so you would not be able to pull out the extinguisher without opening the canopy.  So my question is, where have others found is a good place to tuck a fire extinguisher.  I have the smallest halon type I can find for both planes, which I feel is the minimum.  It would be a chore to change the opening over the wing, but that is what we will do if necessary.


Thank you all.


Paul Fisher
 

Mine is mounted on the seat back bulkhead between the seats.  I found this picture online: https://goo.gl/images/e244Fu

Paul A. Fisher
Q-200 N17PF

On May 2, 2017 9:06 AM, "mskiby@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

I feel that having a good fire extinguisher is mandatory equipment for any plane.  With that said, we have a nice place for one in our TriQ in the area over the main wing.  In the Q200 we just got flying it seems that the canopy brace partially covers the opening so you would not be able to pull out the extinguisher without opening the canopy.  So my question is, where have others found is a good place to tuck a fire extinguisher.  I have the smallest halon type I can find for both planes, which I feel is the minimum.  It would be a chore to change the opening over the wing, but that is what we will do if necessary.


Thank you all.


Martin Skiby
 

That is what I was thinking as well.  You verified it.

Thanks


Mike Dwyer
 

So a question about fire extinguishers.  

Obviously Halon seems to be a good choice.  The others blow out powder or C02.  Don't want the powder all over everything.  The Halon works by displacing the oxygen.  When I'm flying I got the air vents wide open and a good breeze blowing through.  I don't see Halon working in the cockpit.  And how could you test to see if it would work?

In flight, I see the highest risk of fire under the cowl.  Anything that could put out an engine fire?  I do know how to build an electronic fire detector but haven't done that either...

Sorry to say I haven't had an extinguisher for 30 years in the Q... 

Mike Dwyer 
Q200 N3QP



On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 10:16 AM, Paul Fisher rv7a.n18pf@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

Mine is mounted on the seat back bulkhead between the seats.  I found this picture online: https://goo.gl/images/e244Fu

Paul A. Fisher
Q-200 N17PF

On May 2, 2017 9:06 AM, "mskiby@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

I feel that having a good fire extinguisher is mandatory equipment for any plane.  With that said, we have a nice place for one in our TriQ in the area over the main wing.  In the Q200 we just got flying it seems that the canopy brace partially covers the opening so you would not be able to pull out the extinguisher without opening the canopy.  So my question is, where have others found is a good place to tuck a fire extinguisher.  I have the smallest halon type I can find for both planes, which I feel is the minimum.  It would be a chore to change the opening over the wing, but that is what we will do if necessary.


Thank you all.



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Paul Fisher
 

I understand Mike.  I am HAPPY to say that I have carried a fire extinguisher for 27 years and have never needed it!!  I hope for that trend to continue.

Seriously, I figured the best use was on the ground in case of a fire during engine start.  I doubt it would be much use in flight - but I would still try!!

Paul

On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 10:30 AM, Mike Dwyer q2pilot@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

So a question about fire extinguishers.  

Obviously Halon seems to be a good choice.  The others blow out powder or C02.  Don't want the powder all over everything.  The Halon works by displacing the oxygen.  When I'm flying I got the air vents wide open and a good breeze blowing through.  I don't see Halon working in the cockpit.  And how could you test to see if it would work?

In flight, I see the highest risk of fire under the cowl.  Anything that could put out an engine fire?  I do know how to build an electronic fire detector but haven't done that either...

Sorry to say I haven't had an extinguisher for 30 years in the Q... 

Mike Dwyer 
Q200 N3QP



On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 10:16 AM, Paul Fisher rv7a.n18pf@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

Mine is mounted on the seat back bulkhead between the seats.  I found this picture online: https://goo.gl/images/e244Fu

Paul A. Fisher
Q-200 N17PF

On May 2, 2017 9:06 AM, "mskiby@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

I feel that having a good fire extinguisher is mandatory equipment for any plane.  With that said, we have a nice place for one in our TriQ in the area over the main wing.  In the Q200 we just got flying it seems that the canopy brace partially covers the opening so you would not be able to pull out the extinguisher without opening the canopy.  So my question is, where have others found is a good place to tuck a fire extinguisher.  I have the smallest halon type I can find for both planes, which I feel is the minimum.  It would be a chore to change the opening over the wing, but that is what we will do if necessary.


Thank you all.



Virus-free. www.avast.com



britmcman99
 

Some thoughts- don't deploy a fire extinguisher in the same closed space that you happen to be occupying. Halon works well enough to kill you. Plan your hypothetical use scenarios. Where are you likely to encounter a fire?  In the cockpit? Forward of the firewall?  Can you deploy a firewall forward extinguish event whilst in the cockpit?  Would you make your egress, access the fire extinguisher and then deploy the extinguisher?

Risk analysis and scenario planning can be tricky. I'll bet Sam Hoskins has some thoughts on this. 

Phil




On May 2, 2017, at 9:06 AM, mskiby@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

I feel that having a good fire extinguisher is mandatory equipment for any plane.  With that said, we have a nice place for one in our TriQ in the area over the main wing.  In the Q200 we just got flying it seems that the canopy brace partially covers the opening so you would not be able to pull out the extinguisher without opening the canopy.  So my question is, where have others found is a good place to tuck a fire extinguisher.  I have the smallest halon type I can find for both planes, which I feel is the minimum.  It would be a chore to change the opening over the wing, but that is what we will do if necessary.


Thank you all.


John Hartley
 

We carry Halon extinguishers in the aircraft I fly at work. The company's line is to NEVER use them in flight - due to their lethal properties during inhalation, they are only to be used to create a path for the crew + pax to evacuate a burning aircraft on the ground.  Ours is also not to be used to fight an airframe fire. It is supposed to create a 12-14 second burst of Halon and is far short of what you'd need to spray an aircraft. Once it's on fire, the insurance company owns it and they can spray it if they like. However, I've decided if flames were climbing my pant legs and I couldn't be on the ground in the next couple seconds, I'd probably squeeze a little Halon on it - if it suffocates me to death, I'll still be better off than burning. That being said, there's no extinguisher in my Q. I'm setting on a fuel tank, the header tank is surrounded by most of the aircraft's electrical users and sets above my legs. In flight, a pistol would work better than Halon IMO.

Aside from the aircraft I've flown with airframe fire fighting capabilities, fighting fire in flight has always been taught to me: if it's electric - kill the electric via breakers or master and turn things back on one at a time until you can identify the culprit, obviously leaving the culprit's power off. Ventilate the cockpit and land as soon as possible. Fuel related - shut off the fuel at the source. Single engine aircraft is now a glider. Multi engine, land ASAP.

To the question over wether the ventilation in your cockpit would render Halon useless, I'd wager no. You'll find Halon bottles in/near engine compartments of aircraft designed to fight an engine fire in flight. Unless you're flying an open cockpit Q, I can't imagine having more of a breeze than your engine is getting. 

Just my $0.02

John




---In Q-LIST@..., <britmcman@...> wrote :

Some thoughts- don't deploy a fire extinguisher in the same closed space that you happen to be occupying. Halon works well enough to kill you. Plan your hypothetical use scenarios. Where are you likely to encounter a fire?  In the cockpit? Forward of the firewall?  Can you deploy a firewall forward extinguish event whilst in the cockpit?  Would you make your egress, access the fire extinguisher and then deploy the extinguisher?

Risk analysis and scenario planning can be tricky. I'll bet Sam Hoskins has some thoughts on this. 

Phil




On May 2, 2017, at 9:06 AM, mskiby@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

I feel that having a good fire extinguisher is mandatory equipment for any plane.  With that said, we have a nice place for one in our TriQ in the area over the main wing.  In the Q200 we just got flying it seems that the canopy brace partially covers the opening so you would not be able to pull out the extinguisher without opening the canopy.  So my question is, where have others found is a good place to tuck a fire extinguisher.  I have the smallest halon type I can find for both planes, which I feel is the minimum.  It would be a chore to change the opening over the wing, but that is what we will do if necessary.


Thank you all.


Jim Patillo
 

I have a Halon Extinguisher mounted on seat back bulkhead. I uploaded a pix last night to files section.

Jim
N46JP Q200


Jerry Marstall <jnmarstall@...>
 

I installed a system  used by NASCAR. The Halon canister is at my feet.  It has a sensor in the engine compartment and a second sensor in the cockpit. It automatically goes off depending on the temperature of the sensor.

I have pictures of the installation but can't find them. I believe I wrote an article about it when I installed it I can't find that either.

I agree with John that I would rather suffocate than become a crispy critter. And like Paul Fisher I prefer to never have to find out how it works.

Jerry

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "john.hartley1@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...>
Date: 5/2/17 4:39 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Fire extinguisher location

 

We carry Halon extinguishers in the aircraft I fly at work. The company's line is to NEVER use them in flight - due to their lethal properties during inhalation, they are only to be used to create a path for the crew + pax to evacuate a burning aircraft on the ground.  Ours is also not to be used to fight an airframe fire. It is supposed to create a 12-14 second burst of Halon and is far short of what you'd need to spray an aircraft. Once it's on fire, the insurance company owns it and they can spray it if they like. However, I've decided if flames were climbing my pant legs and I couldn't be on the ground in the next couple seconds, I'd probably squeeze a little Halon on it - if it suffocates me to death, I'll still be better off than burning. That being said, there's no extinguisher in my Q. I'm setting on a fuel tank, the header tank is surrounded by most of the aircraft's electrical users and sets above my legs. In flight, a pistol would work better than Halon IMO.


Aside from the aircraft I've flown with airframe fire fighting capabilities, fighting fire in flight has always been taught to me: if it's electric - kill the electric via breakers or master and turn things back on one at a time until you can identify the culprit, obviously leaving the culprit's power off. Ventilate the cockpit and land as soon as possible. Fuel related - shut off the fuel at the source. Single engine aircraft is now a glider. Multi engine, land ASAP.

To the question over wether the ventilation in your cockpit would render Halon useless, I'd wager no. You'll find Halon bottles in/near engine compartments of aircraft designed to fight an engine fire in flight. Unless you're flying an open cockpit Q, I can't imagine having more of a breeze than your engine is getting. 

Just my $0.02

John




---In Q-LIST@..., <britmcman@...> wrote :

Some thoughts- don't deploy a fire extinguisher in the same closed space that you happen to be occupying. Halon works well enough to kill you. Plan your hypothetical use scenarios. Where are you likely to encounter a fire?  In the cockpit? Forward of the firewall?  Can you deploy a firewall forward extinguish event whilst in the cockpit?  Would you make your egress, access the fire extinguisher and then deploy the extinguisher?

Risk analysis and scenario planning can be tricky. I'll bet Sam Hoskins has some thoughts on this. 

Phil




On May 2, 2017, at 9:06 AM, mskiby@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

I feel that having a good fire extinguisher is mandatory equipment for any plane.  With that said, we have a nice place for one in our TriQ in the area over the main wing.  In the Q200 we just got flying it seems that the canopy brace partially covers the opening so you would not be able to pull out the extinguisher without opening the canopy.  So my question is, where have others found is a good place to tuck a fire extinguisher.  I have the smallest halon type I can find ! for both planes, which I feel is the minimum.  It would be a chore to change the opening over the wing, but that is what we will do if necessary.


Thank you all.


Posted by: john.hartley1@...
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Christoph Steiner
 

Anybody considered mounting a blazecut system?

Christoph
 


Richard Kaczmarek 3RD
 

You definitely don't want a Halon unit. If you are stuck fighting an in flight fire the Halon will take take the air out of the cockpit and it won't be the fire that gets you at that point. This is what happen to Marc Waddelow in a large room his own home the small cockpit of the Q would take even less.

Richard


quickieaircraft
 

I buckle the fire extinguisher into the passenger seat.  In case of passenger, you make the passenger hold it and it keeps them awake. The small fire extinguishers are mostly intended for small electrical fires.

I have the powder type (mostly baking soda). In a fire emergency, I think most people would trade "on fire" for "dusty".

Emron
TriQ200 ~20hrs.


Jay Scheevel
 

That Blazecut looks interesting and clever. I suspect the suppressing medium they call HFC stands for HaloFlouroCarbon, which is the same as Halon. They show it deployed in an engine compartment, and that is probably the place you would want it. I like Emron's idea for an extinguisher. I would be gladly cleaning up the dust when safely on the ground, if it came to that. I am curious as to what medium Jerry's NASCAR unit uses??

I will probably do the same as Emron. I have a nice place to mount it in front of the armrest on the passenger side. It is reachable by the pilot or passenger.

Cheers,
Jay Scheevel, Tri-Q, still building


Jay Scheevel
 

Nevermind Jerry,

I re-read your post and see that you also use Halon.

Cheers,
Jay


Martin Skiby
 

My largest concern is more having a ground incident that would require the extinguisher.  If the plane is on fire in the air, the best thing to do it get it on the ground and get out of it.  I think we all agree here.  Having halon in the plane should a fire start may just provide some slowing of the spread until you can depart the plane.

My thoughts and 2 cents.


Mike Dwyer
 

I believe the powder type will wreck all your electronics.  That powder gets in everything and trashes it.  We had someone set one off in an Electronics Engineering lab and wow, what a mess it made.

Mike N3QP


On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 10:27 AM, quickieaircraft@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

I buckle the fire extinguisher into the passenger seat.  In case of passenger, you make the passenger hold it and it keeps them awake. The small fire extinguishers are mostly intended for small electrical fires.


I have the powder type (mostly baking soda). In a fire emergency, I think most people would trade "on fire" for "dusty".

Emron
TriQ200 ~20hrs.



Martin Skiby
 

Yes I put out a 210 once on fire and the powder was a mess.  But we got the fire out!!  It was on the ground and just had a new motor put in it.  Sad


JMasal@...
 

Really, Richard, you KNOW what happened to Marc Waddelow?? Where'd you get that?
Richard



-----Original Message-----
From: fastlittleairplanes@... [Q-LIST]
To: Q-LIST
Sent: Wed, May 3, 2017 6:57 am
Subject: [Q-LIST] Re: Fire extinguisher location

 
You definitely don't want a Halon unit. If you are stuck fighting an in flight fire the Halon will take take the air out of the cockpit and it won't be the fire that gets you at that point. This is what happen to Marc Waddelow in a large room his own home the small cockpit of the Q would take even less.

Richard


Richard Thomson
 


David J. Gall
 

Jimmeh, I don't know what killed Marc Waddellow either, but I can surmise based on these excerpts from the Halon 1301 MSDS and the circumstances of his death in his basement that Halon exposure may have contributed:

"Inhalation: Vapour is heavier than air and can cause suffocation by reducing oxygen available for breathing. Breathing very high concentrations of vapour can cause lightheadedness, giddiness, shortness of breath, and may lead to narcosis, cardiac irregularities, unconsciousness or even death."

"Self-contained breathing apparatus with full facepiece and protective clothing when re-entering unventilated fire areas where product has been used."

"Medical Conditions Generally Aggravated by Exposure: Cardiac problems."

"Respiratory Protection (Specify Type): Not normally necessary if controls are adequate. For high concentrations exceeding 10%, or if exposure is prolonged, use positive pressure air-supplied respirator."

"Ventilation: Local Exhaust: Recommended to control exposures. See mechanical."

"Ventilation: Mechanical (General): Recommended in low areas or indoors where vapours may collect."

"Eye Protection: Chemical goggles recommended. Full faceshield in addition if splashing of liquid form is possible."

Took about 13 seconds to find that on Google, by the way....