Sold as parts


Larry Severson
 

I see a few sales of Q2s as parts. Is there any way to put that plane in the air legally?

 

 


Norm Parmley <norm_parm@...>
 

Yes, there are paths to flying that bird again. The rules say 51% if you are building. If you are using pieces of another project, and building a new project you have to build 51% of the "new" aircraft. If you are rebuilding a current project, and keeping the "N" number it will be hard to show you have built 51%.
I am no super authority on the subject. However, if you want to discuss with me, pleas call: 252-671-1567

Rgards,
Norm parmley


On Tuesday, December 19, 2017, 2:40:52 PM EST, 'larry severson' larry2@... [Q-LIST] wrote:


 

I see a few sales of Q2s as parts. Is there any way to put that plane in the air legally?

 

 


Paul Fisher
 

I'm no expert either, but my understanding is you have to show the AIRCRAFT was >50% built by amateurs in order to get a valid airworthiness certificate.  You have to show that YOU personally built more than 50% to get the repairman's certificate allowing you to sign off on annual condition inspections.  So it should be possible to show that the aircraft is eligible for an airworthiness certificate even if you didn't do the work.

Of course different FSDO offices may have different opinions, so you should check locally to see what they say.

All of this is for US residents.  I have no idea what the rules are in other parts of the world!!

Paul Fisher
Q-200 N17PF

On Dec 19, 2017 3:02 PM, "Norm Parmley norm_parm@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

Yes, there are paths to flying that bird again. The rules say 51% if you are building. If you are using pieces of another project, and building a new project you have to build 51% of the "new" aircraft. If you are rebuilding a current project, and keeping the "N" number it will be hard to show you have built 51%.
I am no super authority on the subject. However, if you want to discuss with me, pleas call: 252-671-1567

Rgards,
Norm parmley


On Tuesday, December 19, 2017, 2:40:52 PM EST, 'larry severson' larry2@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:


 

I see a few sales of Q2s as parts. Is there any way to put that plane in the air legally?

 

 


Richard Kaczmarek 3RD
 

It all depends on why they are being sold for parts and how much work you are wanting to do.


Kevin Boddicker
 

As I understand the regs, if the AW certificate was sent to FAA for any reason, decommissioned, wrecked, did not want the liability when done flying, etc,
the FAA will NOT issue another certificate, as they know exactly where the certificate is. It’s not lost or stolen or misplaced, it’s in OK City. That plane will not get a certificate again without lying to the FAA. They frown on such things.

I believe this to be true, but would deny it under oath!

  
Kevin Boddicker
TriQ 200 N7868B  445 hrs
Luana, IA.



On Dec 19, 2017, at 3:13 PM, Paul Fisher rv7a.n18pf@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:


I'm no expert either, but my understanding is you have to show the AIRCRAFT was >50% built by amateurs in order to get a valid airworthiness certificate.  You have to show that YOU personally built more than 50% to get the repairman's certificate allowing you to sign off on annual condition inspections.  So it should be possible to show that the aircraft is eligible for an airworthiness certificate even if you didn't do the work.

Of course different FSDO offices may have different opinions, so you should check locally to see what they say.

All of this is for US residents.  I have no idea what the rules are in other parts of the world!!

Paul Fisher
Q-200 N17PF

On Dec 19, 2017 3:02 PM, "Norm Parmley norm_parm@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

Yes, there are paths to flying that bird again. The rules say 51% if you are building. If you are using pieces of another project, and building a new project you have to build 51% of the "new" aircraft. If you are rebuilding a current project, and keeping the "N" number it will be hard to show you have built 51%.
I am no super authority on the subject. However, if you want to discuss with me, pleas call: 252-671-1567

Rgards,
Norm parmley


On Tuesday, December 19, 2017, 2:40:52 PM EST, 'larry severson' larry2@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:


 

I see a few sales of Q2s as parts. Is there any way to put that plane in the air legally?

 
 




One Sky Dog
 

Kevin,

An FAA guy at the Salt Lake FSDO once said to our chapter "do not read any thing into the regulations that is not there".

Amateur Built is a category of aircraft that are unique. Before kits there was no 51% anything. There was and still is a thing called the primary builder, this person gets the airworthiness certificate. The actual airplane can be built by hundreds of people ( EAA One week wonder) but only registered by one. When you apply for a airworthiness certificate you have to convince the FAA or DAR that the airplane in question is amateur built. There is no requirement for you personally to build anything but you have to swear that you are the primary builder and it was not built by professionals.

In the eyes of the FAA an airplane is a pile of parts and a pile of paper that when married together has an airworthiness certificate and a registration. If the registration is returned to the FAA by cancelling or scrapping it is no longer an airplane just a pile of amateur built parts. There is nothing in the FAR's that prohibits reusing amateur parts to construct another airframe register it and apply for a new airworthiness inspection with you as the primary builder.

The repairmans certificate is another thing. You have to ask the DAR or FSDO for the form and convert nice him that you know enough about the construction to be able to perform an inspection. Usually this is determined by the inspector during the AWI. Being an A&P would qualify you.

Having said that there are plenty of FSDO people who use the 51% rule incorrectly. The rule actually was to determine if a kit resulted in an airplane that the major portion was not built by an amateur. Remember your local federal worker really does not care about you and your airplane. You are more work for him. Tell him you are the primary builder do not get into how much you built. Say the major portion was built by amateurs. When you fill out the form because you have a "kit" they want to know if professionals or amateurs built the components. Plans built is easy the form does not apply unless you had someone build your Lancair.

Kevin if you can find the FAR that prohibits reusing amateur built parts to construct another airplane I would like to read it.

Regards from sunny 60F AZ airport E 95,

One Sky Dog
Charlie Johnson
Dragonfly N187CD


On Dec 19, 2017, at 5:37 PM, Kevin Boddicker trumanst@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

As I understand the regs, if the AW certificate was sent to FAA for any reason, decommissioned, wrecked, did not want the liability when done flying, etc,
the FAA will NOT issue another certificate, as they know exactly where the certificate is. It’s not lost or stolen or misplaced, it’s in OK City. That plane will not get a certificate again without lying to the FAA. They frown on such things.

I believe this to be true, but would deny it under oath!

  
Kevin Boddicker
TriQ 200 N7868B  445 hrs
Luana, IA.



On Dec 19, 2017, at 3:13 PM, Paul Fisher rv7a.n18pf@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:


I'm no expert either, but my understanding is you have to show the AIRCRAFT was >50% built by amateurs in order to get a valid airworthiness certificate.  You have to show that YOU personally built more than 50% to get the repairman's certificate allowing you to sign off on annual condition inspections.  So it should be possible to show that the aircraft is eligible for an airworthiness certificate even if you didn't do the work.

Of course different FSDO offices may have different opinions, so you should check locally to see what they say.

All of this is for US residents.  I have no idea what the rules are in other parts of the world!!

Paul Fisher
Q-200 N17PF

On Dec 19, 2017 3:02 PM, "Norm Parmley norm_parm@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:
 

Yes, there are paths to flying that bird again. The rules say 51% if you are building. If you are using pieces of another project, and building a new project you have to build 51% of the "new" aircraft. If you are rebuilding a current project, and keeping the "N" number it will be hard to show you have built 51%.
I am no super authority on the subject. However, if you want to discuss with me, pleas call: 252-671-1567

Rgards,
Norm parmley


On Tuesday, December 19, 2017, 2:40:52 PM EST, 'larry severson' larry2@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:


 

I see a few sales of Q2s as parts. Is there any way to put that plane in the air legally?

 
 




Larry Severson
 

Thank you.

 

 

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 4:37 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Sold as parts

 

 

As I understand the regs, if the AW certificate was sent to FAA for any reason, decommissioned, wrecked, did not want the liability when done flying, etc,

the FAA will NOT issue another certificate, as they know exactly where the certificate is. It’s not lost or stolen or misplaced, it’s in OK City. That plane will not get a certificate again without lying to the FAA. They frown on such things.

 

I believe this to be true, but would deny it under oath!

 

  

Kevin Boddicker
TriQ 200 N7868B  445 hrs
Luana, IA.





On Dec 19, 2017, at 3:13 PM, Paul Fisher rv7a.n18pf@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

 

I'm no expert either, but my understanding is you have to show the AIRCRAFT was >50% built by amateurs in order to get a valid airworthiness certificate.  You have to show that YOU personally built more than 50% to get the repairman's certificate allowing you to sign off on annual condition inspections.  So it should be possible to show that the aircraft is eligible for an airworthiness certificate even if you didn't do the work.

 

Of course different FSDO offices may have different opinions, so you should check locally to see what they say.

 

All of this is for US residents.  I have no idea what the rules are in other parts of the world!!

 

Paul Fisher

Q-200 N17PF

 

On Dec 19, 2017 3:02 PM, "Norm Parmley norm_parm@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

 

Yes, there are paths to flying that bird again. The rules say 51% if you are building. If you are using pieces of another project, and building a new project you have to build 51% of the "new" aircraft. If you are rebuilding a current project, and keeping the "N" number it will be hard to show you have built 51%.

I am no super authority on the subject. However, if you want to discuss with me, pleas call: 252-671-1567

 

Rgards,

Norm parmley

 

 

On Tuesday, December 19, 2017, 2:40:52 PM EST, 'larry severson' larry2@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

 

 

 

I see a few sales of Q2s as parts. Is there any way to put that plane in the air legally?