Topics

Q2 to to Q200

Sam Hoskins
 

My typical race speed has been around 212 mph. 


On Tue, Mar 10, 2020, 6:16 PM Martin Skiby <mskiby@...> wrote:
Nobody that I know of has put one in a Q200 so it remains a mystery.  The 0200 running strong and with a good prop can do 210 or more flat out.  I think Sam is touching the 220mph mark.  I would think you should get the same or better with 130hp.

Speed is an interesting thing however and there are many more factors to going fast than just horse power.



-----------------------------------------

From: "Rik"
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Cc:
Sent: Tuesday March 10 2020 3:19:05PM
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Q2 to to Q200

Can you elaborate on the performance that you have seen with the UL 130 hp engine?

Martin Skiby
 

Nobody that I know of has put one in a Q200 so it remains a mystery.  The 0200 running strong and with a good prop can do 210 or more flat out.  I think Sam is touching the 220mph mark.  I would think you should get the same or better with 130hp.

Speed is an interesting thing however and there are many more factors to going fast than just horse power.



-----------------------------------------

From: "Rik"
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Cc:
Sent: Tuesday March 10 2020 3:19:05PM
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Q2 to to Q200

Can you elaborate on the performance that you have seen with the UL 130 hp engine?

Jay Scheevel
 

I have a set of those. Takes away any concern for overheating the heads. All included it added maybe 7 or 8 pounds. I love them, but with the new all aluminum jugs on the latest Jab, it probably is not needed. I think they (Jabiru) redesigned the jugs in part to prevent Rotec from selling their heads to future Jab owners. Jab is miffed that after-market jobbers are making parts that modify their product…even when it makes it better than the original.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert Cringely
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2020 2:38 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Q2 to to Q200

 

Rotec also sells liquid-cooled aftermarket cylinder heads for all Jabirus to cure those CHT problems. 

 

Jay Scheevel
 

That is correct. The reason was to make room for larger mag box and help reduce more forward CG. You can make a bigger header now since there is less need for the 9” of room behind the panel that was required in 1984. All the Avionics are much smaller now, so I made a much bigger header by extending the dimensions towards the rear. Might be a good idea if you want more fuel for the larger engine.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Thomson
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2020 1:59 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Q2 to to Q200

 

    The plans also show a smaller header tank on the Q200.

On 10/03/2020 13:25, Brian Larick wrote:

Thank you all.  Summary
Q2 to Q200:
Engine mounts
firewall mod or replace
cowling change
counter weights for controls
Weight/Balance

generally for GU Canard add VG’s

Rik
 

Can you elaborate on the performance that you have seen with the UL 130 hp engine?

Martin Skiby
 

And many of us would like to see the results of this!  It should be one fast bird for sure!!

Good idea Richard.

-----------------------------------------

From: "Richard Kaczmarek 3RD"
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Cc:
Sent: Tuesday March 10 2020 2:39:14PM
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Q2 to to Q200

If you go to the 130hp ULPower engine you don't have to modify the firewall at all. The engine weighs 178lbs all up, and the only fiberglass mod needed would be to the top half of the cowling. No need for mixture control or carb heat since it is a Fuel injected FADEC controlled engine.

Richard 

On Tue, Mar 10, 2020, 3:59 PM Richard Thomson <richard@...> wrote:

    The plans also show a smaller header tank on the Q200.

On 10/03/2020 13:25, Brian Larick wrote:
Thank you all.  Summary
Q2 to Q200:
Engine mounts
firewall mod or replace
cowling change
counter weights for controls
Weight/Balance

generally for GU Canard add VG’s

Richard Kaczmarek 3RD
 

If you go to the 130hp ULPower engine you don't have to modify the firewall at all. The engine weighs 178lbs all up, and the only fiberglass mod needed would be to the top half of the cowling. No need for mixture control or carb heat since it is a Fuel injected FADEC controlled engine.

Richard 

On Tue, Mar 10, 2020, 3:59 PM Richard Thomson <richard@...> wrote:

    The plans also show a smaller header tank on the Q200.

On 10/03/2020 13:25, Brian Larick wrote:
Thank you all.  Summary
Q2 to Q200:
Engine mounts
firewall mod or replace
cowling change
counter weights for controls
Weight/Balance

generally for GU Canard add VG’s

Robert Cringely
 

Rotec also sells liquid-cooled aftermarket cylinder heads for all Jabirus to cure those CHT problems. 

Richard Thomson
 

    The plans also show a smaller header tank on the Q200.

On 10/03/2020 13:25, Brian Larick wrote:
Thank you all.  Summary
Q2 to Q200:
Engine mounts
firewall mod or replace
cowling change
counter weights for controls
Weight/Balance

generally for GU Canard add VG’s

Jay Scheevel
 

Hi Mike,

 

Your friend probably has the Bing carb on his (that is the standard equipment). It turns out that there is a kind of trial and error you have to do on the Bing to get the right needle for operations dependent on the elevation where you normally operate. The high fuel flow at high power is normal and ok to keep the heads from overheating, but rich mixture has its own problems if you persist a that richness/power setting. His 5 gph at cruise is about right for that engine.

 

There is a lot of discussion about the Bing carb on the JabCamit engine site (I am the admin of that io group) and how to get it set properly. I did some “reading between the lines” on this subject before I even installed my engine and I decided to go with the Rotec throttle body injector. It is a direct copy of the Ellison throttle body. At my altitudes leaning is a requirement, so rather than mess with the Bing, I just skipped it entirely. I am very happy with my results. My full power fuel burn is about 8.5 gph, but I have never had it even close to sea level, so I am really not at “full power” (maybe 75% at most). I would expect to see >10 gph, if I were to be down where you are, just to keep the EGT’s withing limits. Maybe I will get down to the coast sometime and let you know.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Dwyer
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2020 11:15 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Q2 to to Q200

 

Jay,

My buddy has a 3300 on his Aeron Lightning.  He sets his cruise by Fuel flow.  At full power he sees like 12 GPH but sets his cruise to 5 GPH.  It appears this engine runs really rich mixtures at higher power.  He has carbs and no mixture control.  Is yours like that?

Fly Safe,

Mike Dwyer

 

YouTube Videos: https://goo.gl/yKEHfK

Q200 Website: http://goo.gl/V8IrJF

 

 

On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 10:22 AM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

There have been several Jabiru 3300 engines installed in quickies. Two successfully completed and flown in the US that I am aware of. One is mine, the other was Paul Spackman’s he has since sold his, but I think he put close to 1000 hours on it and he had the GU canard. I have less than 100 on mine, so far. The J3300 engine engine weighs 185 pounds and is 120 hp at sea level at 3300 rpm. It is happier running at a lower rpm’s so think of it as an O-200 equivalent (same power at the same rpm’s as the O-200). The newest version of the Jab (Gen4) has been quite reliable with a change to all aluminum cylinder assemblies (nikosil lined).  

 

Also, Richard K would be happy to sell you a UL engine.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Larick
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2020 7:26 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Q2 to to Q200

 

Thank you all.  Summary
Q2 to Q200:
Engine mounts
firewall mod or replace
cowling change
counter weights for controls
Weight/Balance

generally for GU Canard add VG’s

Mike Dwyer
 

Jay,
My buddy has a 3300 on his Aeron Lightning.  He sets his cruise by Fuel flow.  At full power he sees like 12 GPH but sets his cruise to 5 GPH.  It appears this engine runs really rich mixtures at higher power.  He has carbs and no mixture control.  Is yours like that?
Fly Safe,
Mike Dwyer

YouTube Videos: https://goo.gl/yKEHfK
Q200 Website: http://goo.gl/V8IrJF


On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 10:22 AM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

There have been several Jabiru 3300 engines installed in quickies. Two successfully completed and flown in the US that I am aware of. One is mine, the other was Paul Spackman’s he has since sold his, but I think he put close to 1000 hours on it and he had the GU canard. I have less than 100 on mine, so far. The J3300 engine engine weighs 185 pounds and is 120 hp at sea level at 3300 rpm. It is happier running at a lower rpm’s so think of it as an O-200 equivalent (same power at the same rpm’s as the O-200). The newest version of the Jab (Gen4) has been quite reliable with a change to all aluminum cylinder assemblies (nikosil lined).  

 

Also, Richard K would be happy to sell you a UL engine.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Larick
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2020 7:26 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Q2 to to Q200

 

Thank you all.  Summary
Q2 to Q200:
Engine mounts
firewall mod or replace
cowling change
counter weights for controls
Weight/Balance

generally for GU Canard add VG’s

Jay Scheevel
 

185 dry weight, all up. There is no speed reduction drive. It is a direct drive air-cooled horizontally-opposed 6-cylinder aircraft engine:

 

https://jabiru.net.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/3300-Aero-Engine-Flyer.compressed.pdf

I think you are confusing it with a Subaru engine. There are a few of those on quickies also.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joe Hood
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2020 8:26 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Q2 to to Q200

 

All inclusive at 185, or adds for radiator and speed reduction drive?

 

On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 10:22 Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

There have been several Jabiru 3300 engines installed in quickies. Two successfully completed and flown in the US that I am aware of. One is mine, the other was Paul Spackman’s he has since sold his, but I think he put close to 1000 hours on it and he had the GU canard. I have less than 100 on mine, so far. The J3300 engine engine weighs 185 pounds and is 120 hp at sea level at 3300 rpm. It is happier running at a lower rpm’s so think of it as an O-200 equivalent (same power at the same rpm’s as the O-200). The newest version of the Jab (Gen4) has been quite reliable with a change to all aluminum cylinder assemblies (nikosil lined).  

 

Also, Richard K would be happy to sell you a UL engine.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Larick
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2020 7:26 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Q2 to to Q200

 

Thank you all.  Summary
Q2 to Q200:
Engine mounts
firewall mod or replace
cowling change
counter weights for controls
Weight/Balance

generally for GU Canard add VG’s

Joe Hood
 

All inclusive at 185, or adds for radiator and speed reduction drive?

On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 10:22 Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

There have been several Jabiru 3300 engines installed in quickies. Two successfully completed and flown in the US that I am aware of. One is mine, the other was Paul Spackman’s he has since sold his, but I think he put close to 1000 hours on it and he had the GU canard. I have less than 100 on mine, so far. The J3300 engine engine weighs 185 pounds and is 120 hp at sea level at 3300 rpm. It is happier running at a lower rpm’s so think of it as an O-200 equivalent (same power at the same rpm’s as the O-200). The newest version of the Jab (Gen4) has been quite reliable with a change to all aluminum cylinder assemblies (nikosil lined).  

 

Also, Richard K would be happy to sell you a UL engine.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Larick
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2020 7:26 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Q2 to to Q200

 

Thank you all.  Summary
Q2 to Q200:
Engine mounts
firewall mod or replace
cowling change
counter weights for controls
Weight/Balance

generally for GU Canard add VG’s

Jay Scheevel
 

There have been several Jabiru 3300 engines installed in quickies. Two successfully completed and flown in the US that I am aware of. One is mine, the other was Paul Spackman’s he has since sold his, but I think he put close to 1000 hours on it and he had the GU canard. I have less than 100 on mine, so far. The J3300 engine engine weighs 185 pounds and is 120 hp at sea level at 3300 rpm. It is happier running at a lower rpm’s so think of it as an O-200 equivalent (same power at the same rpm’s as the O-200). The newest version of the Jab (Gen4) has been quite reliable with a change to all aluminum cylinder assemblies (nikosil lined).  

 

Also, Richard K would be happy to sell you a UL engine.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Larick
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2020 7:26 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Q2 to to Q200

 

Thank you all.  Summary
Q2 to Q200:
Engine mounts
firewall mod or replace
cowling change
counter weights for controls
Weight/Balance

generally for GU Canard add VG’s

Brian Larick
 

Thank you all.  Summary
Q2 to Q200:
Engine mounts
firewall mod or replace
cowling change
counter weights for controls
Weight/Balance

generally for GU Canard add VG’s

One Sky Dog
 

My HAPI 1835cc firewall forward was 189 lbs if I recall correctly. I think a fully dressed O-200 is closer to 250 lbs but I have not weighed one. Plus whatever counter balance to get the CG right.

I do not own a Q but I have sort of done what you are considering. My Dragonfly weighed 778 lbs with the HAPI 1835cc, cruised at 125 mph, flat out on a good day 140 mph, burning 4 gal per hr (50 hp) average. After going through 2 engines in 800 hrs I decided to go for something a little more reliable. I chose a Corvair engine for a variety of reasons but it is very close to the weight of an O-200 and puts out 100 hp at 3500 rpm.

After the conversion, second fuel tank to feed the thirstier engine, bigger battery moved under rear wing for CG correction the plane weighs 950 lbs. With the 60 lb increase in engine weight the CG moved beyond the forward limit. To keep my 200 to 250 mile range another gas tank behind the seat and plumbing plus the bigger battery and cables added 111 lbs to get the CG back in the envelope.

So far I have been burning 5-6 gal per hour climb rate improved a lot, top speed so far low over the Bonneville salt flats 4500 MSL 154 mph I have a range of over 300 miles.

Consider the R-2300 redundant ignition and dynamos built in and 80 hp  continuous with the Revmaster heads. 20 hp does not offset 50 plus pounds or the time to modify the airframe in my opinion. It will be a long road to go from VW block to O-200 engine.

On Mar 9, 2020, at 8:18 PM, Joe Hood <joe.hood@...> wrote:


Weight different between the Revmaster and O-200 170 vs 200?

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 11:31 AM Martin Skiby <mskiby@...> wrote:
Yes what Richard said.

No need for an LS Canard.  But there is a need to counter balance all control surfaces if not already done.


-----------------------------------------

From: "Richard Kaczmarek 3RD"
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Cc:
Sent: Wednesday February 26 2020 8:04:06AM
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Q2 to to Q200

1. New engine mounts 
2. A modification to the firewall 
3. A longer cowling 
Some will argue that is you don't have the LS1 canard you need to have it but but that just isn't true.

Richard 

Richard Kaczmarek 3RD
 

184lbs vs 240lbs and 30hp


On Mon, Mar 9, 2020, 11:18 PM Joe Hood <joe.hood@...> wrote:
Weight different between the Revmaster and O-200 170 vs 200?

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 11:31 AM Martin Skiby <mskiby@...> wrote:
Yes what Richard said.

No need for an LS Canard.  But there is a need to counter balance all control surfaces if not already done.


-----------------------------------------

From: "Richard Kaczmarek 3RD"
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Cc:
Sent: Wednesday February 26 2020 8:04:06AM
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Q2 to to Q200

1. New engine mounts 
2. A modification to the firewall 
3. A longer cowling 
Some will argue that is you don't have the LS1 canard you need to have it but but that just isn't true.

Richard 

Joe Hood
 

Weight different between the Revmaster and O-200 170 vs 200?


On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 11:31 AM Martin Skiby <mskiby@...> wrote:
Yes what Richard said.

No need for an LS Canard.  But there is a need to counter balance all control surfaces if not already done.


-----------------------------------------

From: "Richard Kaczmarek 3RD"
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Cc:
Sent: Wednesday February 26 2020 8:04:06AM
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Q2 to to Q200

1. New engine mounts 
2. A modification to the firewall 
3. A longer cowling 
Some will argue that is you don't have the LS1 canard you need to have it but but that just isn't true.

Richard 

Martin Skiby
 

Mike,  I saw one years ago that was a swing mount so the guy could swing the engine out to get to accessory case.  It pushed the engine only about 2 inches farther forward I believe.  Looked like a good idea, but I decided it was not worth the extra work and weight and CG issues.




-----------------------------------------

From: "Mike Dwyer"
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Cc:
Sent: Wednesday February 26 2020 11:20:03AM
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Q2 to to Q200

The Quickies don't have a welded motor mount like a J3.  It would make the engine stick out too far forward.  It would not be a really hard thing to cut off the old firewall and glass in a new one for the 0-200A.
Mike Dwyer

YouTube Videos: https://goo.gl/yKEHfK
Q200 Website: http://goo.gl/V8IrJF


On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 11:00 AM <joe.hood@...> wrote:
New hard points for the O-200 mounted on the firewall or weld the current frame?

Mike Dwyer
 

The Quickies don't have a welded motor mount like a J3.  It would make the engine stick out too far forward.  It would not be a really hard thing to cut off the old firewall and glass in a new one for the 0-200A.
Mike Dwyer

YouTube Videos: https://goo.gl/yKEHfK
Q200 Website: http://goo.gl/V8IrJF


On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 11:00 AM <joe.hood@...> wrote:
New hard points for the O-200 mounted on the firewall or weld the current frame?