#### Question on Canards and Main Wings

Bruce Crain

Hi “Q Bees”!  Say Mike Shuck sent this note to me with questions on main wing and canard.  I am forwarding this to all of you to see if we can get him the correct info.  He has agreed to do a seminar on the airfoils that we have as compared to the Epley airfoil.  He will present at Field Of Dreams and you don’t want to miss it!  Leaning in your direction a bit Jay!
Thanks guys!
Bruce

Begin forwarded message:

From: Mike Shuck <mikeshuck2001@...>
Date: August 29, 2020 at 11:30:17 PM CDT
To: "jcrain2@..." <jcrain2@...>
Subject: Question on Canards and Main Wings

﻿
Hi Bruce,

I'm working on the the canards and main wings re: airfoils.

I have the ordinates for them but for the Q2/Q200 and the Quickie but I need to know the chord length in inches of the canards for each of the 2 models and the chord length of the main wings of each of the 2 models. If the main wings are tapered I need the maximum chord and the minimum chord in inches and I can derive the mean aerodynamic chord from that data. This way I can calculate the Reynolds numbers for each.

I hope you can help me on this. I'm going to add a canard of my own design for the Q2/200 and airfoils for the main wings of each (for theoretical uses only) just to spice up the PowerPoint presentation.

Thank you!

Mike

Jay Scheevel

Hi Bruce,

You can send Mike the  attached files. They are the asci files for Javafoil input that contain the geometries for BL 15 (fuselage wall), BL50 and BL100. Both the canard and the wing in the same file for each BL. The ordinates are their relative position as installed on the fuselage of the Tri-Q2, per plans. The absolute x-coordinates are in meters relative to the firewall located at 0.0 meters (FS 14 in plans) and the y-coordinates are relative to the ground (0.0 meters) for purposes of ground-effect modeling.  The plans-correct sweep and washout are also represented by the coordinates these files (LS1 canard, and Eppler Wing).  There is no anhedral, since I have modeled a Tri-Q with flat canard.

Mike can contact me offline if he has any questions. Also, may want to make him aware of my papers on the modeling, in case he is interested. Here are the links from my website:

http://www.n8wq.scheevel.com/documents/All_Text_and_figures_Part2.pdf

http://www.n8wq.scheevel.com/documents/All_Text_and_figures_Part3.pdf

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2020 2:05 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Question on Canards and Main Wings

Hi “Q Bees”!  Say Mike Shuck sent this note to me with questions on main wing and canard.  I am forwarding this to all of you to see if we can get him the correct info.  He has agreed to do a seminar on the airfoils that we have as compared to the Epley airfoil.  He will present at Field Of Dreams and you don’t want to miss it!  Leaning in your direction a bit Jay!

Thanks guys!

Bruce

Begin forwarded message:

From: Mike Shuck <mikeshuck2001@...>
Date: August 29, 2020 at 11:30:17 PM CDT
To: "jcrain2@..." <jcrain2@...>
Subject: Question on Canards and Main Wings

﻿

Hi Bruce,

I'm working on the the canards and main wings re: airfoils.

I have the ordinates for them but for the Q2/Q200 and the Quickie but I need to know the chord length in inches of the canards for each of the 2 models and the chord length of the main wings of each of the 2 models. If the main wings are tapered I need the maximum chord and the minimum chord in inches and I can derive the mean aerodynamic chord from that data. This way I can calculate the Reynolds numbers for each.

I hope you can help me on this. I'm going to add a canard of my own design for the Q2/200 and airfoils for the main wings of each (for theoretical uses only) just to spice up the PowerPoint presentation.

Thank you!

Mike

Bruce Crain

Begin forwarded message:

From: Mike Shuck <mikeshuck2001@...>
Date: September 1, 2020 at 7:49:17 AM CDT
To: jcrain2@...
Subject: Re: Re:  [Q-List] Question on Canards and Main Wings

﻿Thank you, Jay! I hugely appreciate all your help!

Mike

On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 5:19 PM, jcrain2@...
<jcrain2@...> wrote:
Hi Mike!
Here are the specs for the canard and main wing for the Quickie in the form of Tri gear from Jay Scheevel of Grand Junction, CO.  Hope this helps.  Jay is a bit over my head but he has built a wonderful TriQ 200 with a Jabiru water cooled engine with many great mods!
Let me know if you need anything.
Bruce Crain

From: "Jay Scheevel" <jay@...>
To: <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Question on Canards and Main Wings
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2020 12:21:17 -0600

Hi Bruce,

You can send Mike the  attached files. They are the asci files for Javafoil input that contain the geometries for BL 15 (fuselage wall), BL50 and BL100. Both the canard and the wing in the same file for each BL. The ordinates are their relative position as installed on the fuselage of the Tri-Q2, per plans. The absolute x-coordinates are in meters relative to the firewall located at 0.0 meters (FS 14 in plans) and the y-coordinates are relative to the ground (0.0 meters) for purposes of ground-effect modeling.  The plans-correct sweep and washout are also represented by the coordinates these files (LS1 canard, and Eppler Wing).  There is no anhedral, since I have modeled a Tri-Q with flat canard.

Mike can contact me offline if he has any questions. Also, may want to make him aware of my papers on the modeling, in case he is interested. Here are the links from my website:

Cheers,
Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2020 2:05 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Question on Canards and Main Wings

Hi “Q Bees”!  Say Mike Shuck sent this note to me with questions on main wing and canard.  I am forwarding this to all of you to see if we can get him the correct info.  He has agreed to do a seminar on the airfoils that we have as compared to the Epley airfoil.  He will present at Field Of Dreams and you don’t want to miss it!  Leaning in your direction a bit Jay!
Thanks guys!
Bruce

Begin forwarded message:
From: Mike Shuck <mikeshuck2001@...>
Date: August 29, 2020 at 11:30:17 PM CDT
To: "jcrain2@..." <jcrain2@...>
Subject: Question on Canards and Main Wings

Hi Bruce,

I'm working on the the canards and main wings re: airfoils.

I have the ordinates for them but for the Q2/Q200 and the Quickie but I need to know the chord length in inches of the canards for each of the 2 models and the chord length of the main wings of each of the 2 models. If the main wings are tapered I need the maximum chord and the minimum chord in inches and I can derive the mean aerodynamic chord from that data. This way I can calculate the Reynolds numbers for each.

I hope you can help me on this. I'm going to add a canard of my own design for the Q2/200 and airfoils for the main wings of each (for theoretical uses only) just to spice up the PowerPoint presentation.

Thank you!

Mike

JAMES MASAL

Many know I am Death on the subject of "modifications". But I just now came onto some historical information that all of you may not know.
Sept. 2020 Air and Space mag explores "Racing's Fastest Biplane" noting that in 1981 at the behest of Danny Mortensen Burt Rutan  created
the Amsoil/Racer that "could almost be considered a tandem-wing design." Not just "almost" but it looked like a Quickie on steroids.

In  the 1982 championship race, Mortensen finished second at 209.2 mph (winner's speed was 209.4). In 1983 Mortensen didn't compete in the championship
race because he "had demolished the lovely Amsoil/Rutan racer in a prior heat when he dodged an impending mid-air with Sorceress. His raceplane
hit the ground at more than 200 mph. Because Rutan had designed the cockpit to withstand a 22-G impact, Mortensen miraculously walked
away with only minor injuries".

And now you know the rest of the story.
Jim

Begin forwarded message:

From: "Jay Scheevel" <jay@...>
To: <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Question on Canards and Main Wings
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2020 12:21:17 -0600

Hi Bruce,

You can send Mike the  attached files. They are the asci files for Javafoil input that contain the geometries for BL 15 (fuselage wall), BL50 and BL100. Both the canard and the wing in the same file for each BL. The ordinates are their relative position as installed on the fuselage of the Tri-Q2, per plans. The absolute x-coordinates are in meters relative to the firewall located at 0.0 meters (FS 14 in plans) and the y-coordinates are relative to the ground (0.0 meters) for purposes of ground-effect modeling.  The plans-correct sweep and washout are also represented by the coordinates these files (LS1 canard, and Eppler Wing).  There is no anhedral, since I have modeled a Tri-Q with flat canard.

Mike can contact me offline if he has any questions. Also, may want to make him aware of my papers on the modeling, in case he is interested. Here are the links from my website:

Cheers,
Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2020 2:05 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Question on Canards and Main Wings

Hi “Q Bees”!  Say Mike Shuck sent this note to me with questions on main wing and canard.  I am forwarding this to all of you to see if we can get him the correct info.  He has agreed to do a seminar on the airfoils that we have as compared to the Epley airfoil.  He will present at Field Of Dreams and you don’t want to miss it!  Leaning in your direction a bit Jay!
Thanks guys!
Bruce

Begin forwarded message:
From: Mike Shuck <mikeshuck2001@...>
Date: August 29, 2020 at 11:30:17 PM CDT
To: "jcrain2@..." <jcrain2@...>
Subject: Question on Canards and Main Wings

Hi Bruce,

I'm working on the the canards and main wings re: airfoils.

I have the ordinates for them but for the Q2/Q200 and the Quickie but I need to know the chord length in inches of the canards for each of the 2 models and the chord length of the main wings of each of the 2 models. If the main wings are tapered I need the maximum chord and the minimum chord in inches and I can derive the mean aerodynamic chord from that data. This way I can calculate the Reynolds numbers for each.

I hope you can help me on this. I'm going to add a canard of my own design for the Q2/200 and airfoils for the main wings of each (for theoretical uses only) just to spice up the PowerPoint presentation.

Thank you!

Mike

Bill Allen

Here it is....

On Tue, 1 Sep 2020 at 22:22, JMasal via groups.io <JMasal=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

Many know I am Death on the subject of "modifications". But I just now came onto some historical information that all of you may not know.

Sept. 2020 Air and Space mag explores "Racing's Fastest Biplane" noting that in 1981 at the behest of Danny Mortensen Burt Rutan  created

the Amsoil/Racer that "could almost be considered a tandem-wing design." Not just "almost" but it looked like a Quickie on steroids.

In  the 1982 championship race, Mortensen finished second at 209.2 mph (winner's speed was 209.4). In 1983 Mortensen didn't compete in the championship

race because he "had demolished the lovely Amsoil/Rutan racer in a prior heat when he dodged an impending mid-air with Sorceress. His raceplane

hit the ground at more than 200 mph. Because Rutan had designed the cockpit to withstand a 22-G impact, Mortensen miraculously walked

away with only minor injuries".

And now you know the rest of the story.

Jim

Begin forwarded message:

From: "Jay Scheevel" <jay@...>

To: <main@Q-List.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [Q-List] Question on Canards and Main Wings

Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2020 12:21:17 -0600

Hi Bruce,

You can send Mike the  attached files. They are the asci files for Javafoil input that contain the geometries for BL 15 (fuselage wall), BL50 and BL100. Both the canard and the wing in the same file for each BL. The ordinates are their relative position as installed on the fuselage of the Tri-Q2, per plans. The absolute x-coordinates are in meters relative to the firewall located at 0.0 meters (FS 14 in plans) and the y-coordinates are relative to the ground (0.0 meters) for purposes of ground-effect modeling.  The plans-correct sweep and washout are also represented by the coordinates these files (LS1 canard, and Eppler Wing).  There is no anhedral, since I have modeled a Tri-Q with flat canard.

Mike can contact me offline if he has any questions. Also, may want to make him aware of my papers on the modeling, in case he is interested. Here are the links from my website:

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain

Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2020 2:05 PM

To: main@q-list.groups.io

Subject: [Q-List] Question on Canards and Main Wings

Hi “Q Bees”!  Say Mike Shuck sent this note to me with questions on main wing and canard.  I am forwarding this to all of you to see if we can get him the correct info.  He has agreed to do a seminar on the airfoils that we have as compared to the Epley airfoil.  He will present at Field Of Dreams and you don’t want to miss it!  Leaning in your direction a bit Jay!

Thanks guys!

Bruce

Begin forwarded message:

From: Mike Shuck <mikeshuck2001@...>

Date: August 29, 2020 at 11:30:17 PM CDT

To: "jcrain2@..." <jcrain2@...>

Subject: Question on Canards and Main Wings

Hi Bruce,

I'm working on the the canards and main wings re: airfoils.

I have the ordinates for them but for the Q2/Q200 and the Quickie but I need to know the chord length in inches of the canards for each of the 2 models and the chord length of the main wings of each of the 2 models. If the main wings are tapered I need the maximum chord and the minimum chord in inches and I can derive the mean aerodynamic chord from that data. This way I can calculate the Reynolds numbers for each.

I hope you can help me on this. I'm going to add a canard of my own design for the Q2/200 and airfoils for the main wings of each (for theoretical uses only) just to spice up the PowerPoint presentation.

Thank you!

Mike

--

Jay Scheevel

I always keep at least six feet away from Jim Masal, and it is not because of Covid!  FYI—I made “just a few” mods to my plane, right Jim? 😊

Cheers,

Jay Scheevel, Tri-Q2 N8WQ  116 hours and currently undergoing annual condition inspection #2

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of JMasal via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2020 3:22 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Question on Canards and Main Wings

Many know I am Death on the subject of "modifications". But I just now came onto some historical information that all of you may not know.

Sept. 2020 Air and Space mag explores "Racing's Fastest Biplane" noting that in 1981 at the behest of Danny Mortensen Burt Rutan  created

the Amsoil/Racer that "could almost be considered a tandem-wing design." Not just "almost" but it looked like a Quickie on steroids.

In  the 1982 championship race, Mortensen finished second at 209.2 mph (winner's speed was 209.4). In 1983 Mortensen didn't compete in the championship

race because he "had demolished the lovely Amsoil/Rutan racer in a prior heat when he dodged an impending mid-air with Sorceress. His raceplane

hit the ground at more than 200 mph. Because Rutan had designed the cockpit to withstand a 22-G impact, Mortensen miraculously walked

away with only minor injuries".

And now you know the rest of the story.

Jim

Begin forwarded message:

From: "Jay Scheevel" <jay@...>
To: <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Question on Canards and Main Wings
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2020 12:21:17 -0600

Hi Bruce,

You can send Mike the  attached files. They are the asci files for Javafoil input that contain the geometries for BL 15 (fuselage wall), BL50 and BL100. Both the canard and the wing in the same file for each BL. The ordinates are their relative position as installed on the fuselage of the Tri-Q2, per plans. The absolute x-coordinates are in meters relative to the firewall located at 0.0 meters (FS 14 in plans) and the y-coordinates are relative to the ground (0.0 meters) for purposes of ground-effect modeling.  The plans-correct sweep and washout are also represented by the coordinates these files (LS1 canard, and Eppler Wing).  There is no anhedral, since I have modeled a Tri-Q with flat canard.

Mike can contact me offline if he has any questions. Also, may want to make him aware of my papers on the modeling, in case he is interested. Here are the links from my website:

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2020 2:05 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Question on Canards and Main Wings

Hi “Q Bees”!  Say Mike Shuck sent this note to me with questions on main wing and canard.  I am forwarding this to all of you to see if we can get him the correct info.  He has agreed to do a seminar on the airfoils that we have as compared to the Epley airfoil.  He will present at Field Of Dreams and you don’t want to miss it!  Leaning in your direction a bit Jay!

Thanks guys!

Bruce

Begin forwarded message:

From: Mike Shuck <mikeshuck2001@...>
Date: August 29, 2020 at 11:30:17 PM CDT
To: "jcrain2@..." <jcrain2@...>
Subject: Question on Canards and Main Wings

Hi Bruce,

I'm working on the the canards and main wings re: airfoils.

I have the ordinates for them but for the Q2/Q200 and the Quickie but I need to know the chord length in inches of the canards for each of the 2 models and the chord length of the main wings of each of the 2 models. If the main wings are tapered I need the maximum chord and the minimum chord in inches and I can derive the mean aerodynamic chord from that data. This way I can calculate the Reynolds numbers for each.

I hope you can help me on this. I'm going to add a canard of my own design for the Q2/200 and airfoils for the main wings of each (for theoretical uses only) just to spice up the PowerPoint presentation.

Thank you!

Mike

Bruce Crain

Come on now oh great Pohbah did they use an Eppler airfoil?  Inquiring minds want to know.
On the same subject Sammy Hoskins flew faster than 209 mph (unless 209 is knots) with the origin main wing and LS1  canard behind a 100 horse Continental 0200.  Wasn’t the engine in the Amsoil Racer engine a pumped 150 horse?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Bruski Crainsku

On Sep 1, 2020, at 4:28 PM, Bill Allen <billallensworld@...> wrote:

﻿
<808E46D9-FE02-44C5-BC8F-4D9C5C3BCFED.jpeg>
Here it is....

On Tue, 1 Sep 2020 at 22:22, JMasal via groups.io <JMasal=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

Many know I am Death on the subject of "modifications". But I just now came onto some historical information that all of you may not know.

Sept. 2020 Air and Space mag explores "Racing's Fastest Biplane" noting that in 1981 at the behest of Danny Mortensen Burt Rutan  created

the Amsoil/Racer that "could almost be considered a tandem-wing design." Not just "almost" but it looked like a Quickie on steroids.

In  the 1982 championship race, Mortensen finished second at 209.2 mph (winner's speed was 209.4). In 1983 Mortensen didn't compete in the championship

race because he "had demolished the lovely Amsoil/Rutan racer in a prior heat when he dodged an impending mid-air with Sorceress. His raceplane

hit the ground at more than 200 mph. Because Rutan had designed the cockpit to withstand a 22-G impact, Mortensen miraculously walked

away with only minor injuries".

And now you know the rest of the story.

Jim

Begin forwarded message:

From: "Jay Scheevel" <jay@...>

To: <main@Q-List.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [Q-List] Question on Canards and Main Wings

Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2020 12:21:17 -0600

Hi Bruce,

You can send Mike the  attached files. They are the asci files for Javafoil input that contain the geometries for BL 15 (fuselage wall), BL50 and BL100. Both the canard and the wing in the same file for each BL. The ordinates are their relative position as installed on the fuselage of the Tri-Q2, per plans. The absolute x-coordinates are in meters relative to the firewall located at 0.0 meters (FS 14 in plans) and the y-coordinates are relative to the ground (0.0 meters) for purposes of ground-effect modeling.  The plans-correct sweep and washout are also represented by the coordinates these files (LS1 canard, and Eppler Wing).  There is no anhedral, since I have modeled a Tri-Q with flat canard.

Mike can contact me offline if he has any questions. Also, may want to make him aware of my papers on the modeling, in case he is interested. Here are the links from my website:

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain

Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2020 2:05 PM

To: main@q-list.groups.io

Subject: [Q-List] Question on Canards and Main Wings

Hi “Q Bees”!  Say Mike Shuck sent this note to me with questions on main wing and canard.  I am forwarding this to all of you to see if we can get him the correct info.  He has agreed to do a seminar on the airfoils that we have as compared to the Epley airfoil.  He will present at Field Of Dreams and you don’t want to miss it!  Leaning in your direction a bit Jay!

Thanks guys!

Bruce

Begin forwarded message:

From: Mike Shuck <mikeshuck2001@...>

Date: August 29, 2020 at 11:30:17 PM CDT

To: "jcrain2@..." <jcrain2@...>

Subject: Question on Canards and Main Wings

Hi Bruce,

I'm working on the the canards and main wings re: airfoils.

I have the ordinates for them but for the Q2/Q200 and the Quickie but I need to know the chord length in inches of the canards for each of the 2 models and the chord length of the main wings of each of the 2 models. If the main wings are tapered I need the maximum chord and the minimum chord in inches and I can derive the mean aerodynamic chord from that data. This way I can calculate the Reynolds numbers for each.

I hope you can help me on this. I'm going to add a canard of my own design for the Q2/200 and airfoils for the main wings of each (for theoretical uses only) just to spice up the PowerPoint presentation.

Thank you!

Mike

--

Corbin <c_geiser@...>

Oh wow!  This is incredible.  I am sharing this info and photo with others!

Thanks for sending guys,

Corbin Ge!ser

On September 1, 2020 at 4:28 PM, Bill Allen <billallensworld@...> wrote:

Here it is....

On Tue, 1 Sep 2020 at 22:22, JMasal via groups.io <JMasal=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

Many know I am Death on the subject of "modifications". But I just now came onto some historical information that all of you may not know.

Sept. 2020 Air and Space mag explores "Racing's Fastest Biplane" noting that in 1981 at the behest of Danny Mortensen Burt Rutan  created

the Amsoil/Racer that "could almost be considered a tandem-wing design." Not just "almost" but it looked like a Quickie on steroids.

In  the 1982 championship race, Mortensen finished second at 209.2 mph (winner's speed was 209.4). In 1983 Mortensen didn't compete in the championship

race because he "had demolished the lovely Amsoil/Rutan racer in a prior heat when he dodged an impending mid-air with Sorceress. His raceplane

hit the ground at more than 200 mph. Because Rutan had designed the cockpit to withstand a 22-G impact, Mortensen miraculously walked

away with only minor injuries".

And now you know the rest of the story.

Jim

Begin forwarded message:

From: "Jay Scheevel" <jay@...>

To: <main@Q-List.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [Q-List] Question on Canards and Main Wings

Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2020 12:21:17 -0600

Hi Bruce,

You can send Mike the  attached files. They are the asci files for Javafoil input that contain the geometries for BL 15 (fuselage wall), BL50 and BL100. Both the canard and the wing in the same file for each BL. The ordinates are their relative position as installed on the fuselage of the Tri-Q2, per plans. The absolute x-coordinates are in meters relative to the firewall located at 0.0 meters (FS 14 in plans) and the y-coordinates are relative to the ground (0.0 meters) for purposes of ground-effect modeling.  The plans-correct sweep and washout are also represented by the coordinates these files (LS1 canard, and Eppler Wing).  There is no anhedral, since I have modeled a Tri-Q with flat canard.

Mike can contact me offline if he has any questions. Also, may want to make him aware of my papers on the modeling, in case he is interested. Here are the links from my website:

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain

Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2020 2:05 PM

To: main@q-list.groups.io

Subject: [Q-List] Question on Canards and Main Wings

Hi “Q Bees”!  Say Mike Shuck sent this note to me with questions on main wing and canard.  I am forwarding this to all of you to see if we can get him the correct info.  He has agreed to do a seminar on the airfoils that we have as compared to the Epley airfoil.  He will present at Field Of Dreams and you don’t want to miss it!  Leaning in your direction a bit Jay!

Thanks guys!

Bruce

Begin forwarded message:

From: Mike Shuck <mikeshuck2001@...>

Date: August 29, 2020 at 11:30:17 PM CDT

To: "jcrain2@..." <jcrain2@...>

Subject: Question on Canards and Main Wings

Hi Bruce,

I'm working on the the canards and main wings re: airfoils.

I have the ordinates for them but for the Q2/Q200 and the Quickie but I need to know the chord length in inches of the canards for each of the 2 models and the chord length of the main wings of each of the 2 models. If the main wings are tapered I need the maximum chord and the minimum chord in inches and I can derive the mean aerodynamic chord from that data. This way I can calculate the Reynolds numbers for each.

I hope you can help me on this. I'm going to add a canard of my own design for the Q2/200 and airfoils for the main wings of each (for theoretical uses only) just to spice up the PowerPoint presentation.

Thank you!

Mike

--

--

Corbin
N33QR

Martin Skiby

Yes and at one point they actually had to connect the wings to meet the requirements.

-----------------------------------------

From: "Corbin via groups.io"
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Cc:
Sent: Tuesday September 1 2020 4:06:48PM
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Question on Canards and Main Wings

Oh wow!  This is incredible.  I am sharing this info and photo with others!

Thanks for sending guys,

Corbin Ge!ser

On September 1, 2020 at 4:28 PM, Bill Allen <billallensworld@...> wrote:

Here it is....

On Tue, 1 Sep 2020 at 22:22, JMasal via groups.io <JMasal=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

Many know I am Death on the subject of "modifications". But I just now came onto some historical information that all of you may not know.

Sept. 2020 Air and Space mag explores "Racing's Fastest Biplane" noting that in 1981 at the behest of Danny Mortensen Burt Rutan  created

the Amsoil/Racer that "could almost be considered a tandem-wing design." Not just "almost" but it looked like a Quickie on steroids.

In  the 1982 championship race, Mortensen finished second at 209.2 mph (winner's speed was 209.4). In 1983 Mortensen didn't compete in the championship

race because he "had demolished the lovely Amsoil/Rutan racer in a prior heat when he dodged an impending mid-air with Sorceress. His raceplane

hit the ground at more than 200 mph. Because Rutan had designed the cockpit to withstand a 22-G impact, Mortensen miraculously walked

away with only minor injuries".

And now you know the rest of the story.

Jim

Begin forwarded message:

From: "Jay Scheevel" <jay@...>

To: <main@Q-List.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [Q-List] Question on Canards and Main Wings

Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2020 12:21:17 -0600

Hi Bruce,

You can send Mike the  attached files. They are the asci files for Javafoil input that contain the geometries for BL 15 (fuselage wall), BL50 and BL100. Both the canard and the wing in the same file for each BL. The ordinates are their relative position as installed on the fuselage of the Tri-Q2, per plans. The absolute x-coordinates are in meters relative to the firewall located at 0.0 meters (FS 14 in plans) and the y-coordinates are relative to the ground (0.0 meters) for purposes of ground-effect modeling.  The plans-correct sweep and washout are also represented by the coordinates these files (LS1 canard, and Eppler Wing).  There is no anhedral, since I have modeled a Tri-Q with flat canard.

Mike can contact me offline if he has any questions. Also, may want to make him aware of my papers on the modeling, in case he is interested. Here are the links from my website:

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain

Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2020 2:05 PM

To: main@q-list.groups.io

Subject: [Q-List] Question on Canards and Main Wings

Hi “Q Bees”!  Say Mike Shuck sent this note to me with questions on main wing and canard.  I am forwarding this to all of you to see if we can get him the correct info.  He has agreed to do a seminar on the airfoils that we have as compared to the Epley airfoil.  He will present at Field Of Dreams and you don’t want to miss it!  Leaning in your direction a bit Jay!

Thanks guys!

Bruce

Begin forwarded message:

From: Mike Shuck <mikeshuck2001@...>

Date: August 29, 2020 at 11:30:17 PM CDT

To: "jcrain2@..." <jcrain2@...>

Subject: Question on Canards and Main Wings

Hi Bruce,

I'm working on the the canards and main wings re: airfoils.

I have the ordinates for them but for the Q2/Q200 and the Quickie but I need to know the chord length in inches of the canards for each of the 2 models and the chord length of the main wings of each of the 2 models. If the main wings are tapered I need the maximum chord and the minimum chord in inches and I can derive the mean aerodynamic chord from that data. This way I can calculate the Reynolds numbers for each.

I hope you can help me on this. I'm going to add a canard of my own design for the Q2/200 and airfoils for the main wings of each (for theoretical uses only) just to spice up the PowerPoint presentation.

Thank you!

Mike

--

Frankenbird Vern

It was.. a bit like a mini dragonfly fuselage.

There are some basic differences in the airfoils also. John Roncz optimized the Racer. NOT a
training aircraft!

In a side conversation with John one afternoon in plant 4 at Beechcraft I asked him if the true canard
Burt designed are more effective for efficiency or the three surface such as our competition at the time;
the Piaggio Avanti . Several of us were building various Rutan or mutations thereof..my project was Cozy
plans set #43 at the time.

He stated the three surface planform was from the point of view in aerodynamics, more efficient as the
aft surface unloads the canard thereby reducing induced drag. Look closely at the top of the Amzoil verticle
Stab.  It was in truth a three surface planform.

Another tidbit from history back then. Our test pilots had never flown any canard design..so we
(R&D , department 45) "borrowed" a Long Eze from Mohave just so something close to the units
we were building at the time would be relative in flight!  There are some funny and also tragic
stories from then.

I always believed the Pond Racer was never developed out as it could have been. Burt only released
2 licenses from Scaled Composites ..the second license to build has never been activated.

The Amzoil Racer was one off.  The closest I have seen built as a pure offshoot was the Slickie in 2010 at
Arlington EAA. I doubt it flew but it sure looked the part parked on the grass. I chatted with the builder/
owner. Some ideas were valid..most were showmanship.

Vern in Mannford Oklahoma
Q2 Frankenbird and Capella XS2 LSA

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Bill Allen <billallensworld@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2020 4:28 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Question on Canards and Main Wings

Here it is....

On Tue, 1 Sep 2020 at 22:22, JMasal via groups.io <JMasal=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

Many know I am Death on the subject of "modifications". But I just now came onto some historical information that all of you may not know.

Sept. 2020 Air and Space mag explores "Racing's Fastest Biplane" noting that in 1981 at the behest of Danny Mortensen Burt Rutan  created

the Amsoil/Racer that "could almost be considered a tandem-wing design." Not just "almost" but it looked like a Quickie on steroids.

In  the 1982 championship race, Mortensen finished second at 209.2 mph (winner's speed was 209.4). In 1983 Mortensen didn't compete in the championship

race because he "had demolished the lovely Amsoil/Rutan racer in a prior heat when he dodged an impending mid-air with Sorceress. His raceplane

hit the ground at more than 200 mph. Because Rutan had designed the cockpit to withstand a 22-G impact, Mortensen miraculously walked

away with only minor injuries".

And now you know the rest of the story.

Jim

Begin forwarded message:

From: "Jay Scheevel" <jay@...>

To: <main@Q-List.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [Q-List] Question on Canards and Main Wings

Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2020 12:21:17 -0600

Hi Bruce,

You can send Mike the  attached files. They are the asci files for Javafoil input that contain the geometries for BL 15 (fuselage wall), BL50 and BL100. Both the canard and the wing in the same file for each BL. The ordinates are their relative position as installed on the fuselage of the Tri-Q2, per plans. The absolute x-coordinates are in meters relative to the firewall located at 0.0 meters (FS 14 in plans) and the y-coordinates are relative to the ground (0.0 meters) for purposes of ground-effect modeling.  The plans-correct sweep and washout are also represented by the coordinates these files (LS1 canard, and Eppler Wing).  There is no anhedral, since I have modeled a Tri-Q with flat canard.

Mike can contact me offline if he has any questions. Also, may want to make him aware of my papers on the modeling, in case he is interested. Here are the links from my website:

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain

Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2020 2:05 PM

To: main@q-list.groups.io

Subject: [Q-List] Question on Canards and Main Wings

Hi “Q Bees”!  Say Mike Shuck sent this note to me with questions on main wing and canard.  I am forwarding this to all of you to see if we can get him the correct info.  He has agreed to do a seminar on the airfoils that we have as compared to the Epley airfoil.  He will present at Field Of Dreams and you don’t want to miss it!  Leaning in your direction a bit Jay!

Thanks guys!

Bruce

Begin forwarded message:

From: Mike Shuck <mikeshuck2001@...>

Date: August 29, 2020 at 11:30:17 PM CDT

To: "jcrain2@..." <jcrain2@...>

Subject: Question on Canards and Main Wings

Hi Bruce,

I'm working on the the canards and main wings re: airfoils.

I have the ordinates for them but for the Q2/Q200 and the Quickie but I need to know the chord length in inches of the canards for each of the 2 models and the chord length of the main wings of each of the 2 models. If the main wings are tapered I need the maximum chord and the minimum chord in inches and I can derive the mean aerodynamic chord from that data. This way I can calculate the Reynolds numbers for each.

I hope you can help me on this. I'm going to add a canard of my own design for the Q2/200 and airfoils for the main wings of each (for theoretical uses only) just to spice up the PowerPoint presentation.

Thank you!

Mike

--

Frankenbird Vern

Last I heard of the Racer it was hanging in the rafters of some bar back East. It was reconstructed
but not flown again. I guess a nice enough tip to the bar owner might allow a guy to ladder up and
copy off the profiles. :-)   \$100 hamburger (and a beer)?  Anyone know the location?

Vern in Mannford Ok

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2020 5:33 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Question on Canards and Main Wings

Come on now oh great Pohbah did they use an Eppler airfoil?  Inquiring minds want to know.
On the same subject Sammy Hoskins flew faster than 209 mph (unless 209 is knots) with the origin main wing and LS1  canard behind a 100 horse Continental 0200.  Wasn’t the engine in the Amsoil Racer engine a pumped 150 horse?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Bruski Crainsku

On Sep 1, 2020, at 4:28 PM, Bill Allen <billallensworld@...> wrote:

﻿
<808E46D9-FE02-44C5-BC8F-4D9C5C3BCFED.jpeg>
Here it is....

On Tue, 1 Sep 2020 at 22:22, JMasal via groups.io <JMasal=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

Many know I am Death on the subject of "modifications". But I just now came onto some historical information that all of you may not know.

Sept. 2020 Air and Space mag explores "Racing's Fastest Biplane" noting that in 1981 at the behest of Danny Mortensen Burt Rutan  created

the Amsoil/Racer that "could almost be considered a tandem-wing design." Not just "almost" but it looked like a Quickie on steroids.

In  the 1982 championship race, Mortensen finished second at 209.2 mph (winner's speed was 209.4). In 1983 Mortensen didn't compete in the championship

race because he "had demolished the lovely Amsoil/Rutan racer in a prior heat when he dodged an impending mid-air with Sorceress. His raceplane

hit the ground at more than 200 mph. Because Rutan had designed the cockpit to withstand a 22-G impact, Mortensen miraculously walked

away with only minor injuries".

And now you know the rest of the story.

Jim

Begin forwarded message:

From: "Jay Scheevel" <jay@...>

To: <main@Q-List.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [Q-List] Question on Canards and Main Wings

Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2020 12:21:17 -0600

Hi Bruce,

You can send Mike the  attached files. They are the asci files for Javafoil input that contain the geometries for BL 15 (fuselage wall), BL50 and BL100. Both the canard and the wing in the same file for each BL. The ordinates are their relative position as installed on the fuselage of the Tri-Q2, per plans. The absolute x-coordinates are in meters relative to the firewall located at 0.0 meters (FS 14 in plans) and the y-coordinates are relative to the ground (0.0 meters) for purposes of ground-effect modeling.  The plans-correct sweep and washout are also represented by the coordinates these files (LS1 canard, and Eppler Wing).  There is no anhedral, since I have modeled a Tri-Q with flat canard.

Mike can contact me offline if he has any questions. Also, may want to make him aware of my papers on the modeling, in case he is interested. Here are the links from my website:

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain

Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2020 2:05 PM

To: main@q-list.groups.io

Subject: [Q-List] Question on Canards and Main Wings

Hi “Q Bees”!  Say Mike Shuck sent this note to me with questions on main wing and canard.  I am forwarding this to all of you to see if we can get him the correct info.  He has agreed to do a seminar on the airfoils that we have as compared to the Epley airfoil.  He will present at Field Of Dreams and you don’t want to miss it!  Leaning in your direction a bit Jay!

Thanks guys!

Bruce

Begin forwarded message:

From: Mike Shuck <mikeshuck2001@...>

Date: August 29, 2020 at 11:30:17 PM CDT

To: "jcrain2@..." <jcrain2@...>

Subject: Question on Canards and Main Wings

Hi Bruce,

I'm working on the the canards and main wings re: airfoils.

I have the ordinates for them but for the Q2/Q200 and the Quickie but I need to know the chord length in inches of the canards for each of the 2 models and the chord length of the main wings of each of the 2 models. If the main wings are tapered I need the maximum chord and the minimum chord in inches and I can derive the mean aerodynamic chord from that data. This way I can calculate the Reynolds numbers for each.

I hope you can help me on this. I'm going to add a canard of my own design for the Q2/200 and airfoils for the main wings of each (for theoretical uses only) just to spice up the PowerPoint presentation.

Thank you!

Mike

--

Last I heard reported in a bar in Reno.

Samsung Galaxy Note 10+

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 7:56 AM -0700, wrote:

Last I heard of the Racer it was hanging in the rafters of some bar back East. It was reconstructed
but not flown again. I guess a nice enough tip to the bar owner might allow a guy to ladder up and
copy off the profiles. :-)   \$100 hamburger (and a beer)?  Anyone know the location?

Vern in Mannford Ok

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2020 5:33 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Question on Canards and Main Wings

Come on now oh great Pohbah did they use an Eppler airfoil?  Inquiring minds want to know.
On the same subject Sammy Hoskins flew faster than 209 mph (unless 209 is knots) with the origin main wing and LS1  canard behind a 100 horse Continental 0200.  Wasn’t the engine in the Amsoil Racer engine a pumped 150 horse?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Bruski Crainsku

On Sep 1, 2020, at 4:28 PM, Bill Allen <billallensworld@...> wrote:

﻿
<808E46D9-FE02-44C5-BC8F-4D9C5C3BCFED.jpeg>
Here it is....

On Tue, 1 Sep 2020 at 22:22, JMasal via groups.io <JMasal=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

Many know I am Death on the subject of "modifications". But I just now came onto some historical information that all of you may not know.

Sept. 2020 Air and Space mag explores "Racing's Fastest Biplane" noting that in 1981 at the behest of Danny Mortensen Burt Rutan  created

the Amsoil/Racer that "could almost be considered a tandem-wing design." Not just "almost" but it looked like a Quickie on steroids.

In  the 1982 championship race, Mortensen finished second at 209.2 mph (winner's speed was 209.4). In 1983 Mortensen didn't compete in the championship

race because he "had demolished the lovely Amsoil/Rutan racer in a prior heat when he dodged an impending mid-air with Sorceress. His raceplane

hit the ground at more than 200 mph. Because Rutan had designed the cockpit to withstand a 22-G impact, Mortensen miraculously walked

away with only minor injuries".

And now you know the rest of the story.

Jim

Begin forwarded message:

From: "Jay Scheevel" <jay@...>

To: <main@Q-List.groups.io>

Subject: Re: [Q-List] Question on Canards and Main Wings

Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2020 12:21:17 -0600

Hi Bruce,

You can send Mike the  attached files. They are the asci files for Javafoil input that contain the geometries for BL 15 (fuselage wall), BL50 and BL100. Both the canard and the wing in the same file for each BL. The ordinates are their relative position as installed on the fuselage of the Tri-Q2, per plans. The absolute x-coordinates are in meters relative to the firewall located at 0.0 meters (FS 14 in plans) and the y-coordinates are relative to the ground (0.0 meters) for purposes of ground-effect modeling.  The plans-correct sweep and washout are also represented by the coordinates these files (LS1 canard, and Eppler Wing).  There is no anhedral, since I have modeled a Tri-Q with flat canard.

Mike can contact me offline if he has any questions. Also, may want to make him aware of my papers on the modeling, in case he is interested. Here are the links from my website:

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain

Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2020 2:05 PM

To: main@q-list.groups.io

Subject: [Q-List] Question on Canards and Main Wings

Hi “Q Bees”!  Say Mike Shuck sent this note to me with questions on main wing and canard.  I am forwarding this to all of you to see if we can get him the correct info.  He has agreed to do a seminar on the airfoils that we have as compared to the Epley airfoil.  He will present at Field Of Dreams and you don’t want to miss it!  Leaning in your direction a bit Jay!

Thanks guys!

Bruce

Begin forwarded message:

From: Mike Shuck <mikeshuck2001@...>

Date: August 29, 2020 at 11:30:17 PM CDT

To: "jcrain2@..." <jcrain2@...>

Subject: Question on Canards and Main Wings

Hi Bruce,

I'm working on the the canards and main wings re: airfoils.

I have the ordinates for them but for the Q2/Q200 and the Quickie but I need to know the chord length in inches of the canards for each of the 2 models and the chord length of the main wings of each of the 2 models. If the main wings are tapered I need the maximum chord and the minimum chord in inches and I can derive the mean aerodynamic chord from that data. This way I can calculate the Reynolds numbers for each.

I hope you can help me on this. I'm going to add a canard of my own design for the Q2/200 and airfoils for the main wings of each (for theoretical uses only) just to spice up the PowerPoint presentation.

Thank you!

Mike

--

Michael Dunning

Quickheads has a copy of the AMS/OIL Racer First Flight report - great read for those interested.

Interesting title for that Air & Space article, since Tom Aberle's "Phantom" most definitely holds that honor :D

11 Reno Biplane Gold's - 4 of them at a six lap *average* north of 250 mph!

--
-MD
#2827 (still thinking about planning on visualizing how to finish building)

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