Forward Canopy geometry


Jay Scheevel
 

Hi Vern,

I built a transition like you describe into my forward canopy. It was partially to cut that draggy transition you describe  and partially to facilitate my split canopy. The forward portion of my canopy is permanently mounted, so that gave me the option of modifying the transition area.

Cheers,
Jay


On Mar 21, 2021, at 5:54 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:


 Jay. 

 Wow! Dem cylinders are pricy animal$ by themselves. I presume they are installed, but valve rotators on the exhausts are 100%
required. GM 300cu in 6 cylinder rotators are available new and work exactly as the early Corvair truck rotators.  Midyear 62 and later wagons had the rotators also. I have been driving Vairs of all kinds since 1969 and building engines at least that long. My Dad served in the Korean War all three years in the 2nd infantry (they are still on duty there today!), so I got  my time early in the powerplant experince.  

 He was Master Sarge of the vehicle rebuild and salvage out in the field. Turning wrenches while the communists were shootin at them.  When I came along he was at Boeing Wichita. He was Lead in the machine center making mostly AOG or one off MRB items.  My  "motorhead" blood was from my Dad and my "crazy about airplanes" blood from his older brother who served in the Pacific in WW2. My Mom was the first female director in Engineering at Boeing Seattle...so that is where my later cubical rat
life came from.     

 Jay.. I was reviewing the high pressure areas on the Q2 plot and perhaps an addition of a fairing in front of the canopy/cowl location could be worthy of the effort. Jim Patillo in his tour video convinced me to rework the present forward hinged canopy on my shells (purchased the partial kit that way..but I was never comfortable with the workmanship..a bit ruff how the previous owner hinged it) to a parallel mechanism..but perhaps by canting the aft up..the canopy can fit behind a new blended fairing.

 Think how we insert a foot in a slip on shoe.  The old blonde joke.. TGIF.. Toes Go In First. Anyway..that is the visual. 

 The transition appears too blunt at present. 

Vern       


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Saturday, March 6, 2021 11:43 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Mint quality CORVAIR flight engine available
 
Anyone interested in this corvair aero engine conversion, let me know. This is an engine expert who put it together and is on one of my other groups. Below is the explanation of what is included and how well crafted this build is. Maybe Pat Panzera can pass it around also.

Here is Ron's note to me:
"Jay/Others:  Please be my guest to share the photos with whom you feel might benefit.  This would be one of the lightest CORVAIR flight engines you will find with many premier upgrades.  It features a 3.645" bore with ARIES forged pistons, SALIH  Aluminum finned centrifugally cast iron lined cylinder barrels, all reciprocating parts are balanced to within 1 gram and the rotating mass was spun and dynamically balanced (as close as I could get it).  The cam shaft is a reground OTTO "OT-10" with new valve lifters and new "fail-safe" timing gears.  The engine features a "5th bearing on the prop end to protect the crankshaft from gyroscopic prop loads (analogous to the Jab/CAMIT double front crankshaft bearings). The cylinder heads have been completely upgraded with new bronze valve guides, new Stainless Steel valve seats, SS one piece valves, new springs ---. The combustion chambers were volume matched to within 0.1 cc and I took great pains with all clearances and tolerances throughout the entire engine.  All external steel parts were electroless nickel plated and in addition I then powder-coated all parts that you see in black with the exception of the flywheel and starter field housing (they are baked on urethane "PPG Concept").  The charging system is similar to the belt driven CAMIT set-up; but, I used a 20 amp DYNAMO, driven by a Kevlar "V" belt.  The starter is NIPPON DENSO, I feel that they make the best starters in the industry.  In short I went through ever aspect of the engine to insure that it was up to aircraft flight standards, MPI inspected, NEW or completely re-worked.  I am known for being VERY particular, especially when it comes to my airplane work.  

The engine has been run on a test stand (several times) with the prop you see and a large cooling hood; it has been broken in. I have NOT run it on a dynamometer but I estimate the power output to be in the 100 + hp range.  It is impressively smooth.  I enjoyed the build process and took ~ 3 years of my leisure time to complete the project.  The carburetor is a certified Marvel Schebler MA-3 SPA with all the current updates---brass float one piece venturi---.  I have provisions for both cabin heat and carburetor heat (both sides of the engine exhaust system have a heat muff).   I took great pains to build it right.

The KR guys really like the CORVAIR note http://www.n56ml.com/.  A strong CORVAIR will pull a good KR at ~ 200 + mph in straight and level flight.  I have seen 174 mph in my SONEX in straight level flight but remember my stall is < 40 mph with full flaps and the KR is ~ 60 mph or so,  the old adage of thrust vs drag-- lift vs mass---the KR wing is thin and made to go fast but physics demands the loss of lift.

Anyway the synopsis in a nutshell and a neat project that few would undertake or be able to accomplish.  I have procrastinated the sale of my CORVAIR project but I am now ready to let-er go.  I have the 54" X 58" SenSenich prop, the fiberglass nose bowl and the powder coated 4130 SONEX engine mount shown in the photographs all to market.  I have the 3300 Jab currently housed and flying in my plane and an extra early model "solid lifter" Jab 3300 engine with NEW < 70 hour CAMIT cylinder heads pickled and ready for back-up if needed.  I just cannot see keeping the CORVAIR any longer.


Ron M"

-----Original Message-----
From: main@JabCamit.groups.io <main@JabCamit.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ron Milan via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2021 6:21 AM
To: main@jabcamit.groups.io
Subject: [JabCamit] ThroughBolts/My CORVAIR flight engine

Glen, ETTER’S all:  The photos of my CORVAIR flight engine as promised.  I am going to market it, it will make someone a good flight engine.









Ron












Frankenbird Vern
 

 Ala.. Spitfire or perhaps P-51?  The addition of a carbon hoop "roll bar" already was in my build plan. I would like to see your split canopy method chosen. If in case of an unexpected Frankenbird "inverted parking position" I also planned on a simplistic fuel purge to be used prior to emergency touchdown. Offloading all the fuel possible would offer time to exit before a bar b cue event. 

 I've personally "enjoyed" an inflight fire. I had just soloed also. Had about 6.5 hours in my student pilot log book. 

 The transponder was removed for the inspection (the 152 was IFR equipped) and the remover (my instructor at the time) unknown to me failed to tie back the transponder co-axial cable behind the instrument panel. 

 Mr. Murphy stepped in on my solo flight (as he is quite apt to do in aviation) after the removal of the avionic unit, and the loose co-axial shielded ground cable welded itself to the positive buss bar behind the instrument panel. Sparks ..LOTs of sparks! The carpet was set afire...so I had the rather unpleasent experience of the WW1 "hot foot" and the single fuel selector valve near the flames in THICK acrid smoke.  Opened the window and hit the main "off" electrical..but still had flaming carpet only now with more oxygen on hand!!  Not a good situation.

 Altitude was about 1500 ft since I had just departed runway 18 so I was flying over a dense metropolitan part of North Little Rock at the time. I had my E6B available ( 1980 Jeppesen..metal and analog..no batteries required) and proceeded to stamp out the flaming carpet. Obviously, I made it back to the field.  On roll out I un-buckled,exited the aircraft at the point of a fast walking speed, and let her roll on. 
  
 Walked in shaken but otherwise ok to the FBO and promptly called the local FSDO office and the investigation later ended up being rather unfortunate for my flight instructor since he was also the aircraft owner. The co-axial was melted all the way back to the antenna on the belly...close to the lowest point fuel drain. Too close according to FAR's.

 So some of the ideas I intend to add are perhaps just stem from logic. Fuel dumps on Biz jets and Airliners are standard industry items for good reason..and for me this part of aviation systems safety is something I learned at 6 hours in my pilots log book.  Should be included on my homebuilt Experimentals. Cessna and Piper don't seem to think the same as I do on this topic. 

As the comedian Mr. Richard Prior once said "Fire is Inspirational!" I'll vouch that it is indeed.
 
 The canopy drag fairing and addition of the hoop are going in the build also. To emergency exit I plan on cutting the canopy from inside.           

 Any photos of your canopy mod?

 Vern 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 8:30 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry
 
Hi Vern,

I built a transition like you describe into my forward canopy. It was partially to cut that draggy transition you describe  and partially to facilitate my split canopy. The forward portion of my canopy is permanently mounted, so that gave me the option of modifying the transition area.

Cheers,
Jay


On Mar 21, 2021, at 5:54 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:


 

 Jay.. I was reviewing the high pressure areas on the Q2 plot and perhaps an addition of a fairing in front of the canopy/cowl location could be worthy of the effort. Jim Patillo in his tour video convinced me to rework the present forward hinged canopy on my shells (purchased the partial kit that way..but I was never comfortable with the workmanship..a bit ruff how the previous owner hinged it) to a parallel mechanism..but perhaps by canting the aft up..the canopy can fit behind a new blended fairing.

 Think how we insert a foot in a slip on shoe.  The old blonde joke.. TGIF.. Toes Go In First. Anyway..that is the visual. 

 The transition appears too blunt at present. 

Vern       










Ron












Jay Scheevel
 

Great story, Vern.

 

The fuel dump idea had occurred to me when I was building (and probably several others on this list), but I could not find a way to make it happen expeditiously, especially from the header tank, so I did not do that. I did make sure that if the tanks stay intact on a roll over, they will not dribble fuel all over me, but there is no guarantee that everything stays intact in such a circumstance that flips you over. Exiting the aircraft is a bit easier in my configuration, as the overhead console is very stiff (I have had two people sitting on it without any deflection, so will serve to keep the cockpit from being crushed. If you are inverted, once you push the door over center, it stays full open. Here is a photo of my configuration (taken immediately after my first flight).

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 9:01 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

 Ala.. Spitfire or perhaps P-51?  The addition of a carbon hoop "roll bar" already was in my build plan. I would like to see your split canopy method chosen. If in case of an unexpected Frankenbird "inverted parking position" I also planned on a simplistic fuel purge to be used prior to emergency touchdown. Offloading all the fuel possible would offer time to exit before a bar b cue event. 

 

 I've personally "enjoyed" an inflight fire. I had just soloed also. Had about 6.5 hours in my student pilot log book. 

 

 The transponder was removed for the inspection (the 152 was IFR equipped) and the remover (my instructor at the time) unknown to me failed to tie back the transponder co-axial cable behind the instrument panel. 

 

 Mr. Murphy stepped in on my solo flight (as he is quite apt to do in aviation) after the removal of the avionic unit, and the loose co-axial shielded ground cable welded itself to the positive buss bar behind the instrument panel. Sparks ..LOTs of sparks! The carpet was set afire...so I had the rather unpleasent experience of the WW1 "hot foot" and the single fuel selector valve near the flames in THICK acrid smoke.  Opened the window and hit the main "off" electrical..but still had flaming carpet only now with more oxygen on hand!!  Not a good situation.

 

 Altitude was about 1500 ft since I had just departed runway 18 so I was flying over a dense metropolitan part of North Little Rock at the time. I had my E6B available ( 1980 Jeppesen..metal and analog..no batteries required) and proceeded to stamp out the flaming carpet. Obviously, I made it back to the field.  On roll out I un-buckled,exited the aircraft at the point of a fast walking speed, and let her roll on. 

  

 Walked in shaken but otherwise ok to the FBO and promptly called the local FSDO office and the investigation later ended up being rather unfortunate for my flight instructor since he was also the aircraft owner. The co-axial was melted all the way back to the antenna on the belly...close to the lowest point fuel drain. Too close according to FAR's.

 

 So some of the ideas I intend to add are perhaps just stem from logic. Fuel dumps on Biz jets and Airliners are standard industry items for good reason..and for me this part of aviation systems safety is something I learned at 6 hours in my pilots log book.  Should be included on my homebuilt Experimentals. Cessna and Piper don't seem to think the same as I do on this topic. 

 

As the comedian Mr. Richard Prior once said "Fire is Inspirational!" I'll vouch that it is indeed.

 

 The canopy drag fairing and addition of the hoop are going in the build also. To emergency exit I plan on cutting the canopy from inside.           

 

 Any photos of your canopy mod?

 

 Vern 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 8:30 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

Hi Vern,

 

I built a transition like you describe into my forward canopy. It was partially to cut that draggy transition you describe  and partially to facilitate my split canopy. The forward portion of my canopy is permanently mounted, so that gave me the option of modifying the transition area.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 



On Mar 21, 2021, at 5:54 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:



 

 

 Jay.. I was reviewing the high pressure areas on the Q2 plot and perhaps an addition of a fairing in front of the canopy/cowl location could be worthy of the effort. Jim Patillo in his tour video convinced me to rework the present forward hinged canopy on my shells (purchased the partial kit that way..but I was never comfortable with the workmanship..a bit ruff how the previous owner hinged it) to a parallel mechanism..but perhaps by canting the aft up..the canopy can fit behind a new blended fairing.

 

 Think how we insert a foot in a slip on shoe.  The old blonde joke.. TGIF.. Toes Go In First. Anyway..that is the visual. 

 

 The transition appears too blunt at present. 

 

Vern       

 










Ron











Frankenbird Vern
 

 Excellent thought-out method, Jay. In a roll over you'd be without worry. I also see not much "sky" is blanked out for the needs of visual separation. I like your split design a lot. 👍

  That experience scared me enough to consider that Certificated ownership was (is) hampered by not being allowed to innovate legally! Even if it made logical sense to do mods. That being said; I owned and perfected N1100Y (1962 B model 150) as much as I could for over two decades.
 
My thoughts on the fuel eject is based on pressurizing the header tank to purposely blow a fuel jettison "fuse" just ahead of a jettison vent downstream from the main tank (at the lower "keel" and just forward of the shell joint seam); thereby both tanks are made empty in short order. Similar to how the pressure system works on some biz jets (Falcon 20 for one). For redundant seal protection, a manual valve is in front of the "fuse". Of course the dump handle is brite red, positive lockout, and placard indicated for it's use.  

 Once the decision is made to offload the benzine, there is for sure a dead stick landing on the way; but by that time PIC already has the chosen off field (or possibly with luck, an airport..) parking place.   

 Most of you guys know that I was very involved in the Engineering side of the 777 and 747 flammability program (affected all airliner new build fleets in all Nations from 2004 and on, not just America) and from that I learned a lot about what can be done under our cowling as well. 

 Not much weight or vast amounts of money to upgrade..and all of the mods are well known and tested to be effective. Just having the mental margin that you'd have a very good chance at surviving an in flight fire makes it worth the time and cost.

 There is no such thing as flight safety...but there is such a thing as risk management. As pilots, all of us (should) have training to back us up but if the airplane doesn't give us a chance to use it we would still end up taking a dirt nap needlessly.  

 After many millions in testing at the lazy B we made the grade by using Conolite and stainless or titanium details at all "penetrations". Also by capturing the joints (such as the IML of the cowling to the added Conolite firewall buffer) with cheap and lite fiberglass single adhesive tape (use 2" or 3" wide) under the panel attach fasteners, the structural elements are buffered from the heat once the tape adhesive gives up (about .5 seconds!). The fiberglass tape then "pillows" and an air pocket develops..so effective insulation happens at the joints automatically.  

 Using stainless steel screws and 1/2" long standoff tubes the thin Conolite sheet leaves a 1/2" air pocket from the original .025" thick stainless firewall, same thing happens with the Conolite, the resin boils out quickly and the fiberglass cloth remaining becomes effective flame block and insulation automatically. Because the fiberglass tape is on the inside of the cowling joints the fire cannot escape the aft cowling area junction at the fuselage. 

 Discharge a small Kidde foam fire extinguisher through nozzles located under the cowling and an oil fire no longer becomes a bad story for General Aviation aircraft on the 6 o'clock news. I have one in my Capella..it doesn't weigh much at all. 

Vern        


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 11:12 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry
 

Great story, Vern.

 

The fuel dump idea had occurred to me when I was building (and probably several others on this list), but I could not find a way to make it happen expeditiously, especially from the header tank, so I did not do that. I did make sure that if the tanks stay intact on a roll over, they will not dribble fuel all over me, but there is no guarantee that everything stays intact in such a circumstance that flips you over. Exiting the aircraft is a bit easier in my configuration, as the overhead console is very stiff (I have had two people sitting on it without any deflection, so will serve to keep the cockpit from being crushed. If you are inverted, once you push the door over center, it stays full open. Here is a photo of my configuration (taken immediately after my first flight).

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 9:01 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

 Ala.. Spitfire or perhaps P-51?  The addition of a carbon hoop "roll bar" already was in my build plan. I would like to see your split canopy method chosen. If in case of an unexpected Frankenbird "inverted parking position" I also planned on a simplistic fuel purge to be used prior to emergency touchdown. Offloading all the fuel possible would offer time to exit before a bar b cue event. 

 

 I've personally "enjoyed" an inflight fire. I had just soloed also. Had about 6.5 hours in my student pilot log book. 

 

 The transponder was removed for the inspection (the 152 was IFR equipped) and the remover (my instructor at the time) unknown to me failed to tie back the transponder co-axial cable behind the instrument panel. 

 

 Mr. Murphy stepped in on my solo flight (as he is quite apt to do in aviation) after the removal of the avionic unit, and the loose co-axial shielded ground cable welded itself to the positive buss bar behind the instrument panel. Sparks ..LOTs of sparks! The carpet was set afire...so I had the rather unpleasent experience of the WW1 "hot foot" and the single fuel selector valve near the flames in THICK acrid smoke.  Opened the window and hit the main "off" electrical..but still had flaming carpet only now with more oxygen on hand!!  Not a good situation.

 

 Altitude was about 1500 ft since I had just departed runway 18 so I was flying over a dense metropolitan part of North Little Rock at the time. I had my E6B available ( 1980 Jeppesen..metal and analog..no batteries required) and proceeded to stamp out the flaming carpet. Obviously, I made it back to the field.  On roll out I un-buckled,exited the aircraft at the point of a fast walking speed, and let her roll on. 

  

 Walked in shaken but otherwise ok to the FBO and promptly called the local FSDO office and the investigation later ended up being rather unfortunate for my flight instructor since he was also the aircraft owner. The co-axial was melted all the way back to the antenna on the belly...close to the lowest point fuel drain. Too close according to FAR's.

 

 So some of the ideas I intend to add are perhaps just stem from logic. Fuel dumps on Biz jets and Airliners are standard industry items for good reason..and for me this part of aviation systems safety is something I learned at 6 hours in my pilots log book.  Should be included on my homebuilt Experimentals. Cessna and Piper don't seem to think the same as I do on this topic. 

 

As the comedian Mr. Richard Prior once said "Fire is Inspirational!" I'll vouch that it is indeed.

 

 The canopy drag fairing and addition of the hoop are going in the build also. To emergency exit I plan on cutting the canopy from inside.           

 

 Any photos of your canopy mod?

 

 Vern 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 8:30 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

Hi Vern,

 

I built a transition like you describe into my forward canopy. It was partially to cut that draggy transition you describe  and partially to facilitate my split canopy. The forward portion of my canopy is permanently mounted, so that gave me the option of modifying the transition area.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 



On Mar 21, 2021, at 5:54 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:



 

 

 Jay.. I was reviewing the high pressure areas on the Q2 plot and perhaps an addition of a fairing in front of the canopy/cowl location could be worthy of the effort. Jim Patillo in his tour video convinced me to rework the present forward hinged canopy on my shells (purchased the partial kit that way..but I was never comfortable with the workmanship..a bit ruff how the previous owner hinged it) to a parallel mechanism..but perhaps by canting the aft up..the canopy can fit behind a new blended fairing.

 

 Think how we insert a foot in a slip on shoe.  The old blonde joke.. TGIF.. Toes Go In First. Anyway..that is the visual. 

 

 The transition appears too blunt at present. 

 

Vern       

 










Ron











Jay Scheevel
 

Hi Vern,

 

Yes, I preserved almost the entire area of the original plexiglass canopy, by sliding it “around the sphere” of the original glass shape. The following two videos are time lapse compression of my fabrication of the doors and overhead beam/console.

https://youtu.be/0Ct7ZWoG3yE

https://youtu.be/MzFPIyD-_f0

 

Yours sounds like a good plan for gas tank evacuation, provided it does not blowout the edge seams of the tanks.

 

You should query Jerry Marstall for his solution to automatic cockpit fire suppression, adapted from the motor car racing world. It looks like it would be very effective and is essentially automatic. I will allow him to elaborate further.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 1:50 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

 Excellent thought-out method, Jay. In a roll over you'd be without worry. I also see not much "sky" is blanked out for the needs of visual separation. I like your split design a lot. 👍

 

  That experience scared me enough to consider that Certificated ownership was (is) hampered by not being allowed to innovate legally! Even if it made logical sense to do mods. That being said; I owned and perfected N1100Y (1962 B model 150) as much as I could for over two decades.

 

My thoughts on the fuel eject is based on pressurizing the header tank to purposely blow a fuel jettison "fuse" just ahead of a jettison vent downstream from the main tank (at the lower "keel" and just forward of the shell joint seam); thereby both tanks are made empty in short order. Similar to how the pressure system works on some biz jets (Falcon 20 for one). For redundant seal protection, a manual valve is in front of the "fuse". Of course the dump handle is brite red, positive lockout, and placard indicated for it's use.  

 

 Once the decision is made to offload the benzine, there is for sure a dead stick landing on the way; but by that time PIC already has the chosen off field (or possibly with luck, an airport..) parking place.   

 

 Most of you guys know that I was very involved in the Engineering side of the 777 and 747 flammability program (affected all airliner new build fleets in all Nations from 2004 and on, not just America) and from that I learned a lot about what can be done under our cowling as well. 

 

 Not much weight or vast amounts of money to upgrade..and all of the mods are well known and tested to be effective. Just having the mental margin that you'd have a very good chance at surviving an in flight fire makes it worth the time and cost.

 

 There is no such thing as flight safety...but there is such a thing as risk management. As pilots, all of us (should) have training to back us up but if the airplane doesn't give us a chance to use it we would still end up taking a dirt nap needlessly.  

 

 After many millions in testing at the lazy B we made the grade by using Conolite and stainless or titanium details at all "penetrations". Also by capturing the joints (such as the IML of the cowling to the added Conolite firewall buffer) with cheap and lite fiberglass single adhesive tape (use 2" or 3" wide) under the panel attach fasteners, the structural elements are buffered from the heat once the tape adhesive gives up (about .5 seconds!). The fiberglass tape then "pillows" and an air pocket develops..so effective insulation happens at the joints automatically.  

 

 Using stainless steel screws and 1/2" long standoff tubes the thin Conolite sheet leaves a 1/2" air pocket from the original .025" thick stainless firewall, same thing happens with the Conolite, the resin boils out quickly and the fiberglass cloth remaining becomes effective flame block and insulation automatically. Because the fiberglass tape is on the inside of the cowling joints the fire cannot escape the aft cowling area junction at the fuselage. 

 

 Discharge a small Kidde foam fire extinguisher through nozzles located under the cowling and an oil fire no longer becomes a bad story for General Aviation aircraft on the 6 o'clock news. I have one in my Capella..it doesn't weigh much at all. 

 

Vern        

 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 11:12 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

Great story, Vern.

 

The fuel dump idea had occurred to me when I was building (and probably several others on this list), but I could not find a way to make it happen expeditiously, especially from the header tank, so I did not do that. I did make sure that if the tanks stay intact on a roll over, they will not dribble fuel all over me, but there is no guarantee that everything stays intact in such a circumstance that flips you over. Exiting the aircraft is a bit easier in my configuration, as the overhead console is very stiff (I have had two people sitting on it without any deflection, so will serve to keep the cockpit from being crushed. If you are inverted, once you push the door over center, it stays full open. Here is a photo of my configuration (taken immediately after my first flight).

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 9:01 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

 Ala.. Spitfire or perhaps P-51?  The addition of a carbon hoop "roll bar" already was in my build plan. I would like to see your split canopy method chosen. If in case of an unexpected Frankenbird "inverted parking position" I also planned on a simplistic fuel purge to be used prior to emergency touchdown. Offloading all the fuel possible would offer time to exit before a bar b cue event. 

 

 I've personally "enjoyed" an inflight fire. I had just soloed also. Had about 6.5 hours in my student pilot log book. 

 

 The transponder was removed for the inspection (the 152 was IFR equipped) and the remover (my instructor at the time) unknown to me failed to tie back the transponder co-axial cable behind the instrument panel. 

 

 Mr. Murphy stepped in on my solo flight (as he is quite apt to do in aviation) after the removal of the avionic unit, and the loose co-axial shielded ground cable welded itself to the positive buss bar behind the instrument panel. Sparks ..LOTs of sparks! The carpet was set afire...so I had the rather unpleasent experience of the WW1 "hot foot" and the single fuel selector valve near the flames in THICK acrid smoke.  Opened the window and hit the main "off" electrical..but still had flaming carpet only now with more oxygen on hand!!  Not a good situation.

 

 Altitude was about 1500 ft since I had just departed runway 18 so I was flying over a dense metropolitan part of North Little Rock at the time. I had my E6B available ( 1980 Jeppesen..metal and analog..no batteries required) and proceeded to stamp out the flaming carpet. Obviously, I made it back to the field.  On roll out I un-buckled,exited the aircraft at the point of a fast walking speed, and let her roll on. 

  

 Walked in shaken but otherwise ok to the FBO and promptly called the local FSDO office and the investigation later ended up being rather unfortunate for my flight instructor since he was also the aircraft owner. The co-axial was melted all the way back to the antenna on the belly...close to the lowest point fuel drain. Too close according to FAR's.

 

 So some of the ideas I intend to add are perhaps just stem from logic. Fuel dumps on Biz jets and Airliners are standard industry items for good reason..and for me this part of aviation systems safety is something I learned at 6 hours in my pilots log book.  Should be included on my homebuilt Experimentals. Cessna and Piper don't seem to think the same as I do on this topic. 

 

As the comedian Mr. Richard Prior once said "Fire is Inspirational!" I'll vouch that it is indeed.

 

 The canopy drag fairing and addition of the hoop are going in the build also. To emergency exit I plan on cutting the canopy from inside.           

 

 Any photos of your canopy mod?

 

 Vern 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 8:30 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

Hi Vern,

 

I built a transition like you describe into my forward canopy. It was partially to cut that draggy transition you describe  and partially to facilitate my split canopy. The forward portion of my canopy is permanently mounted, so that gave me the option of modifying the transition area.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

 

On Mar 21, 2021, at 5:54 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:



 

 

 Jay.. I was reviewing the high pressure areas on the Q2 plot and perhaps an addition of a fairing in front of the canopy/cowl location could be worthy of the effort. Jim Patillo in his tour video convinced me to rework the present forward hinged canopy on my shells (purchased the partial kit that way..but I was never comfortable with the workmanship..a bit ruff how the previous owner hinged it) to a parallel mechanism..but perhaps by canting the aft up..the canopy can fit behind a new blended fairing.

 

 Think how we insert a foot in a slip on shoe.  The old blonde joke.. TGIF.. Toes Go In First. Anyway..that is the visual. 

 

 The transition appears too blunt at present. 

 

Vern       

 










Ron









Richard Thomson
 

Jay,

That is a great picture.

I notice you have closing plates at the end of your elevators, is your fuel tank behind that area or is there a void behind ?

Br

Rich T.



On 22/03/2021 16:12, Jay Scheevel wrote:

Great story, Vern.

 

The fuel dump idea had occurred to me when I was building (and probably several others on this list), but I could not find a way to make it happen expeditiously, especially from the header tank, so I did not do that. I did make sure that if the tanks stay intact on a roll over, they will not dribble fuel all over me, but there is no guarantee that everything stays intact in such a circumstance that flips you over. Exiting the aircraft is a bit easier in my configuration, as the overhead console is very stiff (I have had two people sitting on it without any deflection, so will serve to keep the cockpit from being crushed. If you are inverted, once you push the door over center, it stays full open. Here is a photo of my configuration (taken immediately after my first flight).

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 9:01 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

 Ala.. Spitfire or perhaps P-51?  The addition of a carbon hoop "roll bar" already was in my build plan. I would like to see your split canopy method chosen. If in case of an unexpected Frankenbird "inverted parking position" I also planned on a simplistic fuel purge to be used prior to emergency touchdown. Offloading all the fuel possible would offer time to exit before a bar b cue event. 

 

 I've personally "enjoyed" an inflight fire. I had just soloed also. Had about 6.5 hours in my student pilot log book. 

 

 The transponder was removed for the inspection (the 152 was IFR equipped) and the remover (my instructor at the time) unknown to me failed to tie back the transponder co-axial cable behind the instrument panel. 

 

 Mr. Murphy stepped in on my solo flight (as he is quite apt to do in aviation) after the removal of the avionic unit, and the loose co-axial shielded ground cable welded itself to the positive buss bar behind the instrument panel. Sparks ..LOTs of sparks! The carpet was set afire...so I had the rather unpleasent experience of the WW1 "hot foot" and the single fuel selector valve near the flames in THICK acrid smoke.  Opened the window and hit the main "off" electrical..but still had flaming carpet only now with more oxygen on hand!!  Not a good situation.

 

 Altitude was about 1500 ft since I had just departed runway 18 so I was flying over a dense metropolitan part of North Little Rock at the time. I had my E6B available ( 1980 Jeppesen..metal and analog..no batteries required) and proceeded to stamp out the flaming carpet. Obviously, I made it back to the field.  On roll out I un-buckled,exited the aircraft at the point of a fast walking speed, and let her roll on. 

  

 Walked in shaken but otherwise ok to the FBO and promptly called the local FSDO office and the investigation later ended up being rather unfortunate for my flight instructor since he was also the aircraft owner. The co-axial was melted all the way back to the antenna on the belly...close to the lowest point fuel drain. Too close according to FAR's.

 

 So some of the ideas I intend to add are perhaps just stem from logic. Fuel dumps on Biz jets and Airliners are standard industry items for good reason..and for me this part of aviation systems safety is something I learned at 6 hours in my pilots log book.  Should be included on my homebuilt Experimentals. Cessna and Piper don't seem to think the same as I do on this topic. 

 

As the comedian Mr. Richard Prior once said "Fire is Inspirational!" I'll vouch that it is indeed.

 

 The canopy drag fairing and addition of the hoop are going in the build also. To emergency exit I plan on cutting the canopy from inside.           

 

 Any photos of your canopy mod?

 

 Vern 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 8:30 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

Hi Vern,

 

I built a transition like you describe into my forward canopy. It was partially to cut that draggy transition you describe  and partially to facilitate my split canopy. The forward portion of my canopy is permanently mounted, so that gave me the option of modifying the transition area.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 



On Mar 21, 2021, at 5:54 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:



 

 

 Jay.. I was reviewing the high pressure areas on the Q2 plot and perhaps an addition of a fairing in front of the canopy/cowl location could be worthy of the effort. Jim Patillo in his tour video convinced me to rework the present forward hinged canopy on my shells (purchased the partial kit that way..but I was never comfortable with the workmanship..a bit ruff how the previous owner hinged it) to a parallel mechanism..but perhaps by canting the aft up..the canopy can fit behind a new blended fairing.

 

 Think how we insert a foot in a slip on shoe.  The old blonde joke.. TGIF.. Toes Go In First. Anyway..that is the visual. 

 

 The transition appears too blunt at present. 

 

Vern       

 










Ron











Frankenbird Vern
 

 Lot of good design and methods comes from the racing world. I look forward to what Jerry offers. I am grateful for your efforts and on another Blog dealing with aviation I suggest recording the build on thumb drive for the DAR and more especially a record for ones own memory support. Upload and store video is a boost to the Airworthiness sign off and later builders as myself. Also good was advising on overseas sign off. The Commonwealth Nations are particularly difficult. Delt with that a few times in my aircraft factory life, so I don't envy builders of Experimental in those parts of the world.

Vern   


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 3:17 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry
 

Hi Vern,

 

Yes, I preserved almost the entire area of the original plexiglass canopy, by sliding it “around the sphere” of the original glass shape. The following two videos are time lapse compression of my fabrication of the doors and overhead beam/console.

https://youtu.be/0Ct7ZWoG3yE

https://youtu.be/MzFPIyD-_f0

 

Yours sounds like a good plan for gas tank evacuation, provided it does not blowout the edge seams of the tanks.

 

You should query Jerry Marstall for his solution to automatic cockpit fire suppression, adapted from the motor car racing world. It looks like it would be very effective and is essentially automatic. I will allow him to elaborate further.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 1:50 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

 Excellent thought-out method, Jay. In a roll over you'd be without worry. I also see not much "sky" is blanked out for the needs of visual separation. I like your split design a lot. 👍

 

  That experience scared me enough to consider that Certificated ownership was (is) hampered by not being allowed to innovate legally! Even if it made logical sense to do mods. That being said; I owned and perfected N1100Y (1962 B model 150) as much as I could for over two decades.

 

My thoughts on the fuel eject is based on pressurizing the header tank to purposely blow a fuel jettison "fuse" just ahead of a jettison vent downstream from the main tank (at the lower "keel" and just forward of the shell joint seam); thereby both tanks are made empty in short order. Similar to how the pressure system works on some biz jets (Falcon 20 for one). For redundant seal protection, a manual valve is in front of the "fuse". Of course the dump handle is brite red, positive lockout, and placard indicated for it's use.  

 

 Once the decision is made to offload the benzine, there is for sure a dead stick landing on the way; but by that time PIC already has the chosen off field (or possibly with luck, an airport..) parking place.   

 

 Most of you guys know that I was very involved in the Engineering side of the 777 and 747 flammability program (affected all airliner new build fleets in all Nations from 2004 and on, not just America) and from that I learned a lot about what can be done under our cowling as well. 

 

 Not much weight or vast amounts of money to upgrade..and all of the mods are well known and tested to be effective. Just having the mental margin that you'd have a very good chance at surviving an in flight fire makes it worth the time and cost.

 

 There is no such thing as flight safety...but there is such a thing as risk management. As pilots, all of us (should) have training to back us up but if the airplane doesn't give us a chance to use it we would still end up taking a dirt nap needlessly.  

 

 After many millions in testing at the lazy B we made the grade by using Conolite and stainless or titanium details at all "penetrations". Also by capturing the joints (such as the IML of the cowling to the added Conolite firewall buffer) with cheap and lite fiberglass single adhesive tape (use 2" or 3" wide) under the panel attach fasteners, the structural elements are buffered from the heat once the tape adhesive gives up (about .5 seconds!). The fiberglass tape then "pillows" and an air pocket develops..so effective insulation happens at the joints automatically.  

 

 Using stainless steel screws and 1/2" long standoff tubes the thin Conolite sheet leaves a 1/2" air pocket from the original .025" thick stainless firewall, same thing happens with the Conolite, the resin boils out quickly and the fiberglass cloth remaining becomes effective flame block and insulation automatically. Because the fiberglass tape is on the inside of the cowling joints the fire cannot escape the aft cowling area junction at the fuselage. 

 

 Discharge a small Kidde foam fire extinguisher through nozzles located under the cowling and an oil fire no longer becomes a bad story for General Aviation aircraft on the 6 o'clock news. I have one in my Capella..it doesn't weigh much at all. 

 

Vern        

 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 11:12 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

Great story, Vern.

 

The fuel dump idea had occurred to me when I was building (and probably several others on this list), but I could not find a way to make it happen expeditiously, especially from the header tank, so I did not do that. I did make sure that if the tanks stay intact on a roll over, they will not dribble fuel all over me, but there is no guarantee that everything stays intact in such a circumstance that flips you over. Exiting the aircraft is a bit easier in my configuration, as the overhead console is very stiff (I have had two people sitting on it without any deflection, so will serve to keep the cockpit from being crushed. If you are inverted, once you push the door over center, it stays full open. Here is a photo of my configuration (taken immediately after my first flight).

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 9:01 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

 Ala.. Spitfire or perhaps P-51?  The addition of a carbon hoop "roll bar" already was in my build plan. I would like to see your split canopy method chosen. If in case of an unexpected Frankenbird "inverted parking position" I also planned on a simplistic fuel purge to be used prior to emergency touchdown. Offloading all the fuel possible would offer time to exit before a bar b cue event. 

 

 I've personally "enjoyed" an inflight fire. I had just soloed also. Had about 6.5 hours in my student pilot log book. 

 

 The transponder was removed for the inspection (the 152 was IFR equipped) and the remover (my instructor at the time) unknown to me failed to tie back the transponder co-axial cable behind the instrument panel. 

 

 Mr. Murphy stepped in on my solo flight (as he is quite apt to do in aviation) after the removal of the avionic unit, and the loose co-axial shielded ground cable welded itself to the positive buss bar behind the instrument panel. Sparks ..LOTs of sparks! The carpet was set afire...so I had the rather unpleasent experience of the WW1 "hot foot" and the single fuel selector valve near the flames in THICK acrid smoke.  Opened the window and hit the main "off" electrical..but still had flaming carpet only now with more oxygen on hand!!  Not a good situation.

 

 Altitude was about 1500 ft since I had just departed runway 18 so I was flying over a dense metropolitan part of North Little Rock at the time. I had my E6B available ( 1980 Jeppesen..metal and analog..no batteries required) and proceeded to stamp out the flaming carpet. Obviously, I made it back to the field.  On roll out I un-buckled,exited the aircraft at the point of a fast walking speed, and let her roll on. 

  

 Walked in shaken but otherwise ok to the FBO and promptly called the local FSDO office and the investigation later ended up being rather unfortunate for my flight instructor since he was also the aircraft owner. The co-axial was melted all the way back to the antenna on the belly...close to the lowest point fuel drain. Too close according to FAR's.

 

 So some of the ideas I intend to add are perhaps just stem from logic. Fuel dumps on Biz jets and Airliners are standard industry items for good reason..and for me this part of aviation systems safety is something I learned at 6 hours in my pilots log book.  Should be included on my homebuilt Experimentals. Cessna and Piper don't seem to think the same as I do on this topic. 

 

As the comedian Mr. Richard Prior once said "Fire is Inspirational!" I'll vouch that it is indeed.

 

 The canopy drag fairing and addition of the hoop are going in the build also. To emergency exit I plan on cutting the canopy from inside.           

 

 Any photos of your canopy mod?

 

 Vern 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 8:30 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

Hi Vern,

 

I built a transition like you describe into my forward canopy. It was partially to cut that draggy transition you describe  and partially to facilitate my split canopy. The forward portion of my canopy is permanently mounted, so that gave me the option of modifying the transition area.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

 

On Mar 21, 2021, at 5:54 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:



 

 

 Jay.. I was reviewing the high pressure areas on the Q2 plot and perhaps an addition of a fairing in front of the canopy/cowl location could be worthy of the effort. Jim Patillo in his tour video convinced me to rework the present forward hinged canopy on my shells (purchased the partial kit that way..but I was never comfortable with the workmanship..a bit ruff how the previous owner hinged it) to a parallel mechanism..but perhaps by canting the aft up..the canopy can fit behind a new blended fairing.

 

 Think how we insert a foot in a slip on shoe.  The old blonde joke.. TGIF.. Toes Go In First. Anyway..that is the visual. 

 

 The transition appears too blunt at present. 

 

Vern       

 










Ron









Jay Scheevel
 

Hi Richard,

 

That is a hollow strake. I copied it after shapes I had seen on corporate jets. I figured good enough for them, good enough for me. That plate comes off to slide my elevator inboard for removal. The left strake also houses my downward looking precision radar altimeter. Main tank is per plans, so is not impacted by these strakes.

The construction details are shown in two time lapse videos: https://youtu.be/mDo6t2kM5VM and https://youtu.be/gKGtZ4oxDfo

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Thomson
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 4:25 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

Jay,

That is a great picture.

I notice you have closing plates at the end of your elevators, is your fuel tank behind that area or is there a void behind ?

Br

Rich T.

 

 

On 22/03/2021 16:12, Jay Scheevel wrote:

Great story, Vern.

 

The fuel dump idea had occurred to me when I was building (and probably several others on this list), but I could not find a way to make it happen expeditiously, especially from the header tank, so I did not do that. I did make sure that if the tanks stay intact on a roll over, they will not dribble fuel all over me, but there is no guarantee that everything stays intact in such a circumstance that flips you over. Exiting the aircraft is a bit easier in my configuration, as the overhead console is very stiff (I have had two people sitting on it without any deflection, so will serve to keep the cockpit from being crushed. If you are inverted, once you push the door over center, it stays full open. Here is a photo of my configuration (taken immediately after my first flight).

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 9:01 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

 Ala.. Spitfire or perhaps P-51?  The addition of a carbon hoop "roll bar" already was in my build plan. I would like to see your split canopy method chosen. If in case of an unexpected Frankenbird "inverted parking position" I also planned on a simplistic fuel purge to be used prior to emergency touchdown. Offloading all the fuel possible would offer time to exit before a bar b cue event. 

 

 I've personally "enjoyed" an inflight fire. I had just soloed also. Had about 6.5 hours in my student pilot log book. 

 

 The transponder was removed for the inspection (the 152 was IFR equipped) and the remover (my instructor at the time) unknown to me failed to tie back the transponder co-axial cable behind the instrument panel. 

 

 Mr. Murphy stepped in on my solo flight (as he is quite apt to do in aviation) after the removal of the avionic unit, and the loose co-axial shielded ground cable welded itself to the positive buss bar behind the instrument panel. Sparks ..LOTs of sparks! The carpet was set afire...so I had the rather unpleasent experience of the WW1 "hot foot" and the single fuel selector valve near the flames in THICK acrid smoke.  Opened the window and hit the main "off" electrical..but still had flaming carpet only now with more oxygen on hand!!  Not a good situation.

 

 Altitude was about 1500 ft since I had just departed runway 18 so I was flying over a dense metropolitan part of North Little Rock at the time. I had my E6B available ( 1980 Jeppesen..metal and analog..no batteries required) and proceeded to stamp out the flaming carpet. Obviously, I made it back to the field.  On roll out I un-buckled,exited the aircraft at the point of a fast walking speed, and let her roll on. 

  

 Walked in shaken but otherwise ok to the FBO and promptly called the local FSDO office and the investigation later ended up being rather unfortunate for my flight instructor since he was also the aircraft owner. The co-axial was melted all the way back to the antenna on the belly...close to the lowest point fuel drain. Too close according to FAR's.

 

 So some of the ideas I intend to add are perhaps just stem from logic. Fuel dumps on Biz jets and Airliners are standard industry items for good reason..and for me this part of aviation systems safety is something I learned at 6 hours in my pilots log book.  Should be included on my homebuilt Experimentals. Cessna and Piper don't seem to think the same as I do on this topic. 

 

As the comedian Mr. Richard Prior once said "Fire is Inspirational!" I'll vouch that it is indeed.

 

 The canopy drag fairing and addition of the hoop are going in the build also. To emergency exit I plan on cutting the canopy from inside.           

 

 Any photos of your canopy mod?

 

 Vern 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 8:30 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

Hi Vern,

 

I built a transition like you describe into my forward canopy. It was partially to cut that draggy transition you describe  and partially to facilitate my split canopy. The forward portion of my canopy is permanently mounted, so that gave me the option of modifying the transition area.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 




On Mar 21, 2021, at 5:54 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:



 

 

 Jay.. I was reviewing the high pressure areas on the Q2 plot and perhaps an addition of a fairing in front of the canopy/cowl location could be worthy of the effort. Jim Patillo in his tour video convinced me to rework the present forward hinged canopy on my shells (purchased the partial kit that way..but I was never comfortable with the workmanship..a bit ruff how the previous owner hinged it) to a parallel mechanism..but perhaps by canting the aft up..the canopy can fit behind a new blended fairing.

 

 Think how we insert a foot in a slip on shoe.  The old blonde joke.. TGIF.. Toes Go In First. Anyway..that is the visual. 

 

 The transition appears too blunt at present. 

 

Vern       

 










Ron












Richard Thomson
 

    Thanks Jay , I will have a look.

    FN has the closing plates as well, always wondered how close the screw holes were to the tank wall.

    Precision radar eh, have you got Doppler as well ?? :-)

    Br

    Rich.

On 22/03/2021 23:39, Jay Scheevel wrote:

Hi Richard,

 

That is a hollow strake. I copied it after shapes I had seen on corporate jets. I figured good enough for them, good enough for me. That plate comes off to slide my elevator inboard for removal. The left strake also houses my downward looking precision radar altimeter. Main tank is per plans, so is not impacted by these strakes.

The construction details are shown in two time lapse videos: https://youtu.be/mDo6t2kM5VM and https://youtu.be/gKGtZ4oxDfo

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Thomson
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 4:25 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

Jay,

That is a great picture.

I notice you have closing plates at the end of your elevators, is your fuel tank behind that area or is there a void behind ?

Br

Rich T.

 

 

On 22/03/2021 16:12, Jay Scheevel wrote:

Great story, Vern.

 

The fuel dump idea had occurred to me when I was building (and probably several others on this list), but I could not find a way to make it happen expeditiously, especially from the header tank, so I did not do that. I did make sure that if the tanks stay intact on a roll over, they will not dribble fuel all over me, but there is no guarantee that everything stays intact in such a circumstance that flips you over. Exiting the aircraft is a bit easier in my configuration, as the overhead console is very stiff (I have had two people sitting on it without any deflection, so will serve to keep the cockpit from being crushed. If you are inverted, once you push the door over center, it stays full open. Here is a photo of my configuration (taken immediately after my first flight).

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 9:01 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

 Ala.. Spitfire or perhaps P-51?  The addition of a carbon hoop "roll bar" already was in my build plan. I would like to see your split canopy method chosen. If in case of an unexpected Frankenbird "inverted parking position" I also planned on a simplistic fuel purge to be used prior to emergency touchdown. Offloading all the fuel possible would offer time to exit before a bar b cue event. 

 

 I've personally "enjoyed" an inflight fire. I had just soloed also. Had about 6.5 hours in my student pilot log book. 

 

 The transponder was removed for the inspection (the 152 was IFR equipped) and the remover (my instructor at the time) unknown to me failed to tie back the transponder co-axial cable behind the instrument panel. 

 

 Mr. Murphy stepped in on my solo flight (as he is quite apt to do in aviation) after the removal of the avionic unit, and the loose co-axial shielded ground cable welded itself to the positive buss bar behind the instrument panel. Sparks ..LOTs of sparks! The carpet was set afire...so I had the rather unpleasent experience of the WW1 "hot foot" and the single fuel selector valve near the flames in THICK acrid smoke.  Opened the window and hit the main "off" electrical..but still had flaming carpet only now with more oxygen on hand!!  Not a good situation.

 

 Altitude was about 1500 ft since I had just departed runway 18 so I was flying over a dense metropolitan part of North Little Rock at the time. I had my E6B available ( 1980 Jeppesen..metal and analog..no batteries required) and proceeded to stamp out the flaming carpet. Obviously, I made it back to the field.  On roll out I un-buckled,exited the aircraft at the point of a fast walking speed, and let her roll on. 

  

 Walked in shaken but otherwise ok to the FBO and promptly called the local FSDO office and the investigation later ended up being rather unfortunate for my flight instructor since he was also the aircraft owner. The co-axial was melted all the way back to the antenna on the belly...close to the lowest point fuel drain. Too close according to FAR's.

 

 So some of the ideas I intend to add are perhaps just stem from logic. Fuel dumps on Biz jets and Airliners are standard industry items for good reason..and for me this part of aviation systems safety is something I learned at 6 hours in my pilots log book.  Should be included on my homebuilt Experimentals. Cessna and Piper don't seem to think the same as I do on this topic. 

 

As the comedian Mr. Richard Prior once said "Fire is Inspirational!" I'll vouch that it is indeed.

 

 The canopy drag fairing and addition of the hoop are going in the build also. To emergency exit I plan on cutting the canopy from inside.           

 

 Any photos of your canopy mod?

 

 Vern 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 8:30 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

Hi Vern,

 

I built a transition like you describe into my forward canopy. It was partially to cut that draggy transition you describe  and partially to facilitate my split canopy. The forward portion of my canopy is permanently mounted, so that gave me the option of modifying the transition area.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 




On Mar 21, 2021, at 5:54 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:



 

 

 Jay.. I was reviewing the high pressure areas on the Q2 plot and perhaps an addition of a fairing in front of the canopy/cowl location could be worthy of the effort. Jim Patillo in his tour video convinced me to rework the present forward hinged canopy on my shells (purchased the partial kit that way..but I was never comfortable with the workmanship..a bit ruff how the previous owner hinged it) to a parallel mechanism..but perhaps by canting the aft up..the canopy can fit behind a new blended fairing.

 

 Think how we insert a foot in a slip on shoe.  The old blonde joke.. TGIF.. Toes Go In First. Anyway..that is the visual. 

 

 The transition appears too blunt at present. 

 

Vern       

 










Ron












Jay Scheevel
 

Sorry Richard, I misspoke. Should have said lidar altimeter. Very useful on landing. Calls out AGL to me as I round out and right down to touchdown. Kind of like having Buzz Aldrin sitting next to me in the LEM :-)

Cheers,
Jay


On Mar 23, 2021, at 4:39 AM, Richard Thomson <richard@...> wrote:



    Thanks Jay , I will have a look.

    FN has the closing plates as well, always wondered how close the screw holes were to the tank wall.

    Precision radar eh, have you got Doppler as well ?? :-)

    Br

    Rich.

On 22/03/2021 23:39, Jay Scheevel wrote:

Hi Richard,

 

That is a hollow strake. I copied it after shapes I had seen on corporate jets. I figured good enough for them, good enough for me. That plate comes off to slide my elevator inboard for removal. The left strake also houses my downward looking precision radar altimeter. Main tank is per plans, so is not impacted by these strakes.

The construction details are shown in two time lapse videos: https://youtu.be/mDo6t2kM5VM and https://youtu.be/gKGtZ4oxDfo

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Thomson
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 4:25 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

Jay,

That is a great picture.

I notice you have closing plates at the end of your elevators, is your fuel tank behind that area or is there a void behind ?

Br

Rich T.

 

 

On 22/03/2021 16:12, Jay Scheevel wrote:

Great story, Vern.

 

The fuel dump idea had occurred to me when I was building (and probably several others on this list), but I could not find a way to make it happen expeditiously, especially from the header tank, so I did not do that. I did make sure that if the tanks stay intact on a roll over, they will not dribble fuel all over me, but there is no guarantee that everything stays intact in such a circumstance that flips you over. Exiting the aircraft is a bit easier in my configuration, as the overhead console is very stiff (I have had two people sitting on it without any deflection, so will serve to keep the cockpit from being crushed. If you are inverted, once you push the door over center, it stays full open. Here is a photo of my configuration (taken immediately after my first flight).

 

Cheers,

Jay

<image002.jpg>

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 9:01 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

 Ala.. Spitfire or perhaps P-51?  The addition of a carbon hoop "roll bar" already was in my build plan. I would like to see your split canopy method chosen. If in case of an unexpected Frankenbird "inverted parking position" I also planned on a simplistic fuel purge to be used prior to emergency touchdown. Offloading all the fuel possible would offer time to exit before a bar b cue event. 

 

 I've personally "enjoyed" an inflight fire. I had just soloed also. Had about 6.5 hours in my student pilot log book. 

 

 The transponder was removed for the inspection (the 152 was IFR equipped) and the remover (my instructor at the time) unknown to me failed to tie back the transponder co-axial cable behind the instrument panel. 

 

 Mr. Murphy stepped in on my solo flight (as he is quite apt to do in aviation) after the removal of the avionic unit, and the loose co-axial shielded ground cable welded itself to the positive buss bar behind the instrument panel. Sparks ..LOTs of sparks! The carpet was set afire...so I had the rather unpleasent experience of the WW1 "hot foot" and the single fuel selector valve near the flames in THICK acrid smoke.  Opened the window and hit the main "off" electrical..but still had flaming carpet only now with more oxygen on hand!!  Not a good situation.

 

 Altitude was about 1500 ft since I had just departed runway 18 so I was flying over a dense metropolitan part of North Little Rock at the time. I had my E6B available ( 1980 Jeppesen..metal and analog..no batteries required) and proceeded to stamp out the flaming carpet. Obviously, I made it back to the field.  On roll out I un-buckled,exited the aircraft at the point of a fast walking speed, and let her roll on. 

  

 Walked in shaken but otherwise ok to the FBO and promptly called the local FSDO office and the investigation later ended up being rather unfortunate for my flight instructor since he was also the aircraft owner. The co-axial was melted all the way back to the antenna on the belly...close to the lowest point fuel drain. Too close according to FAR's.

 

 So some of the ideas I intend to add are perhaps just stem from logic. Fuel dumps on Biz jets and Airliners are standard industry items for good reason..and for me this part of aviation systems safety is something I learned at 6 hours in my pilots log book.  Should be included on my homebuilt Experimentals. Cessna and Piper don't seem to think the same as I do on this topic. 

 

As the comedian Mr. Richard Prior once said "Fire is Inspirational!" I'll vouch that it is indeed.

 

 The canopy drag fairing and addition of the hoop are going in the build also. To emergency exit I plan on cutting the canopy from inside.           

 

 Any photos of your canopy mod?

 

 Vern 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 8:30 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

Hi Vern,

 

I built a transition like you describe into my forward canopy. It was partially to cut that draggy transition you describe  and partially to facilitate my split canopy. The forward portion of my canopy is permanently mounted, so that gave me the option of modifying the transition area.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 




On Mar 21, 2021, at 5:54 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:



 

 

 Jay.. I was reviewing the high pressure areas on the Q2 plot and perhaps an addition of a fairing in front of the canopy/cowl location could be worthy of the effort. Jim Patillo in his tour video convinced me to rework the present forward hinged canopy on my shells (purchased the partial kit that way..but I was never comfortable with the workmanship..a bit ruff how the previous owner hinged it) to a parallel mechanism..but perhaps by canting the aft up..the canopy can fit behind a new blended fairing.

 

 Think how we insert a foot in a slip on shoe.  The old blonde joke.. TGIF.. Toes Go In First. Anyway..that is the visual. 

 

 The transition appears too blunt at present. 

 

Vern       

 










Ron












Richard Thomson
 

    Great Idea, thats even better than PRA, and with talk down thrown in at a fraction of the price.  Its a wonder there isnt a Q200 in Florida with a similar set up.  :-)

    Lots of energy expended in your videos, made me tired just watching. Thanks Jay.

    Br

    Rich.

On 23/03/2021 12:05, Jay Scheevel wrote:
Sorry Richard, I misspoke. Should have said lidar altimeter. Very useful on landing. Calls out AGL to me as I round out and right down to touchdown. Kind of like having Buzz Aldrin sitting next to me in the LEM :-)

Cheers,
Jay


On Mar 23, 2021, at 4:39 AM, Richard Thomson <richard@...> wrote:



    Thanks Jay , I will have a look.

    FN has the closing plates as well, always wondered how close the screw holes were to the tank wall.

    Precision radar eh, have you got Doppler as well ?? :-)

    Br

    Rich.

On 22/03/2021 23:39, Jay Scheevel wrote:

Hi Richard,

 

That is a hollow strake. I copied it after shapes I had seen on corporate jets. I figured good enough for them, good enough for me. That plate comes off to slide my elevator inboard for removal. The left strake also houses my downward looking precision radar altimeter. Main tank is per plans, so is not impacted by these strakes.

The construction details are shown in two time lapse videos: https://youtu.be/mDo6t2kM5VM and https://youtu.be/gKGtZ4oxDfo

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Thomson
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 4:25 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

Jay,

That is a great picture.

I notice you have closing plates at the end of your elevators, is your fuel tank behind that area or is there a void behind ?

Br

Rich T.

 

 

On 22/03/2021 16:12, Jay Scheevel wrote:

Great story, Vern.

 

The fuel dump idea had occurred to me when I was building (and probably several others on this list), but I could not find a way to make it happen expeditiously, especially from the header tank, so I did not do that. I did make sure that if the tanks stay intact on a roll over, they will not dribble fuel all over me, but there is no guarantee that everything stays intact in such a circumstance that flips you over. Exiting the aircraft is a bit easier in my configuration, as the overhead console is very stiff (I have had two people sitting on it without any deflection, so will serve to keep the cockpit from being crushed. If you are inverted, once you push the door over center, it stays full open. Here is a photo of my configuration (taken immediately after my first flight).

 

Cheers,

Jay

<image002.jpg>

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 9:01 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

 Ala.. Spitfire or perhaps P-51?  The addition of a carbon hoop "roll bar" already was in my build plan. I would like to see your split canopy method chosen. If in case of an unexpected Frankenbird "inverted parking position" I also planned on a simplistic fuel purge to be used prior to emergency touchdown. Offloading all the fuel possible would offer time to exit before a bar b cue event. 

 

 I've personally "enjoyed" an inflight fire. I had just soloed also. Had about 6.5 hours in my student pilot log book. 

 

 The transponder was removed for the inspection (the 152 was IFR equipped) and the remover (my instructor at the time) unknown to me failed to tie back the transponder co-axial cable behind the instrument panel. 

 

 Mr. Murphy stepped in on my solo flight (as he is quite apt to do in aviation) after the removal of the avionic unit, and the loose co-axial shielded ground cable welded itself to the positive buss bar behind the instrument panel. Sparks ..LOTs of sparks! The carpet was set afire...so I had the rather unpleasent experience of the WW1 "hot foot" and the single fuel selector valve near the flames in THICK acrid smoke.  Opened the window and hit the main "off" electrical..but still had flaming carpet only now with more oxygen on hand!!  Not a good situation.

 

 Altitude was about 1500 ft since I had just departed runway 18 so I was flying over a dense metropolitan part of North Little Rock at the time. I had my E6B available ( 1980 Jeppesen..metal and analog..no batteries required) and proceeded to stamp out the flaming carpet. Obviously, I made it back to the field.  On roll out I un-buckled,exited the aircraft at the point of a fast walking speed, and let her roll on. 

  

 Walked in shaken but otherwise ok to the FBO and promptly called the local FSDO office and the investigation later ended up being rather unfortunate for my flight instructor since he was also the aircraft owner. The co-axial was melted all the way back to the antenna on the belly...close to the lowest point fuel drain. Too close according to FAR's.

 

 So some of the ideas I intend to add are perhaps just stem from logic. Fuel dumps on Biz jets and Airliners are standard industry items for good reason..and for me this part of aviation systems safety is something I learned at 6 hours in my pilots log book.  Should be included on my homebuilt Experimentals. Cessna and Piper don't seem to think the same as I do on this topic. 

 

As the comedian Mr. Richard Prior once said "Fire is Inspirational!" I'll vouch that it is indeed.

 

 The canopy drag fairing and addition of the hoop are going in the build also. To emergency exit I plan on cutting the canopy from inside.           

 

 Any photos of your canopy mod?

 

 Vern 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 8:30 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

Hi Vern,

 

I built a transition like you describe into my forward canopy. It was partially to cut that draggy transition you describe  and partially to facilitate my split canopy. The forward portion of my canopy is permanently mounted, so that gave me the option of modifying the transition area.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 




On Mar 21, 2021, at 5:54 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:



 

 

 Jay.. I was reviewing the high pressure areas on the Q2 plot and perhaps an addition of a fairing in front of the canopy/cowl location could be worthy of the effort. Jim Patillo in his tour video convinced me to rework the present forward hinged canopy on my shells (purchased the partial kit that way..but I was never comfortable with the workmanship..a bit ruff how the previous owner hinged it) to a parallel mechanism..but perhaps by canting the aft up..the canopy can fit behind a new blended fairing.

 

 Think how we insert a foot in a slip on shoe.  The old blonde joke.. TGIF.. Toes Go In First. Anyway..that is the visual. 

 

 The transition appears too blunt at present. 

 

Vern       

 










Ron












Jerry Marstall <jnmarstall@...>
 

The next time I pull the cowling, I’ll take some pictures of the race car fire suppression system.  Unless I find pictures sooner.

Jerry

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io [mailto:main@Q-List.groups.io] On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 7:03 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

 Lot of good design and methods comes from the racing world. I look forward to what Jerry offers. I am grateful for your efforts and on another Blog dealing with aviation I suggest recording the build on thumb drive for the DAR and more especially a record for ones own memory support. Upload and store video is a boost to the Airworthiness sign off and later builders as myself. Also good was advising on overseas sign off. The Commonwealth Nations are particularly difficult. Delt with that a few times in my aircraft factory life, so I don't envy builders of Experimental in those parts of the world.

 

Vern   

 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 3:17 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

Hi Vern,

 

Yes, I preserved almost the entire area of the original plexiglass canopy, by sliding it “around the sphere” of the original glass shape. The following two videos are time lapse compression of my fabrication of the doors and overhead beam/console.

https://youtu.be/0Ct7ZWoG3yE

https://youtu.be/MzFPIyD-_f0

 

Yours sounds like a good plan for gas tank evacuation, provided it does not blowout the edge seams of the tanks.

 

You should query Jerry Marstall for his solution to automatic cockpit fire suppression, adapted from the motor car racing world. It looks like it would be very effective and is essentially automatic. I will allow him to elaborate further.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 1:50 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

 Excellent thought-out method, Jay. In a roll over you'd be without worry. I also see not much "sky" is blanked out for the needs of visual separation. I like your split design a lot. 👍

 

  That experience scared me enough to consider that Certificated ownership was (is) hampered by not being allowed to innovate legally! Even if it made logical sense to do mods. That being said; I owned and perfected N1100Y (1962 B model 150) as much as I could for over two decades.

 

My thoughts on the fuel eject is based on pressurizing the header tank to purposely blow a fuel jettison "fuse" just ahead of a jettison vent downstream from the main tank (at the lower "keel" and just forward of the shell joint seam); thereby both tanks are made empty in short order. Similar to how the pressure system works on some biz jets (Falcon 20 for one). For redundant seal protection, a manual valve is in front of the "fuse". Of course the dump handle is brite red, positive lockout, and placard indicated for it's use.  

 

 Once the decision is made to offload the benzine, there is for sure a dead stick landing on the way; but by that time PIC already has the chosen off field (or possibly with luck, an airport..) parking place.   

 

 Most of you guys know that I was very involved in the Engineering side of the 777 and 747 flammability program (affected all airliner new build fleets in all Nations from 2004 and on, not just America) and from that I learned a lot about what can be done under our cowling as well. 

 

 Not much weight or vast amounts of money to upgrade..and all of the mods are well known and tested to be effective. Just having the mental margin that you'd have a very good chance at surviving an in flight fire makes it worth the time and cost.

 

 There is no such thing as flight safety...but there is such a thing as risk management. As pilots, all of us (should) have training to back us up but if the airplane doesn't give us a chance to use it we would still end up taking a dirt nap needlessly.  

 

 After many millions in testing at the lazy B we made the grade by using Conolite and stainless or titanium details at all "penetrations". Also by capturing the joints (such as the IML of the cowling to the added Conolite firewall buffer) with cheap and lite fiberglass single adhesive tape (use 2" or 3" wide) under the panel attach fasteners, the structural elements are buffered from the heat once the tape adhesive gives up (about .5 seconds!). The fiberglass tape then "pillows" and an air pocket develops..so effective insulation happens at the joints automatically.  

 

 Using stainless steel screws and 1/2" long standoff tubes the thin Conolite sheet leaves a 1/2" air pocket from the original .025" thick stainless firewall, same thing happens with the Conolite, the resin boils out quickly and the fiberglass cloth remaining becomes effective flame block and insulation automatically. Because the fiberglass tape is on the inside of the cowling joints the fire cannot escape the aft cowling area junction at the fuselage. 

 

 Discharge a small Kidde foam fire extinguisher through nozzles located under the cowling and an oil fire no longer becomes a bad story for General Aviation aircraft on the 6 o'clock news. I have one in my Capella..it doesn't weigh much at all. 

 

Vern        

 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 11:12 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

Great story, Vern.

 

The fuel dump idea had occurred to me when I was building (and probably several others on this list), but I could not find a way to make it happen expeditiously, especially from the header tank, so I did not do that. I did make sure that if the tanks stay intact on a roll over, they will not dribble fuel all over me, but there is no guarantee that everything stays intact in such a circumstance that flips you over. Exiting the aircraft is a bit easier in my configuration, as the overhead console is very stiff (I have had two people sitting on it without any deflection, so will serve to keep the cockpit from being crushed. If you are inverted, once you push the door over center, it stays full open. Here is a photo of my configuration (taken immediately after my first flight).

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 9:01 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

 Ala.. Spitfire or perhaps P-51?  The addition of a carbon hoop "roll bar" already was in my build plan. I would like to see your split canopy method chosen. If in case of an unexpected Frankenbird "inverted parking position" I also planned on a simplistic fuel purge to be used prior to emergency touchdown. Offloading all the fuel possible would offer time to exit before a bar b cue event. 

 

 I've personally "enjoyed" an inflight fire. I had just soloed also. Had about 6.5 hours in my student pilot log book. 

 

 The transponder was removed for the inspection (the 152 was IFR equipped) and the remover (my instructor at the time) unknown to me failed to tie back the transponder co-axial cable behind the instrument panel. 

 

 Mr. Murphy stepped in on my solo flight (as he is quite apt to do in aviation) after the removal of the avionic unit, and the loose co-axial shielded ground cable welded itself to the positive buss bar behind the instrument panel. Sparks ..LOTs of sparks! The carpet was set afire...so I had the rather unpleasent experience of the WW1 "hot foot" and the single fuel selector valve near the flames in THICK acrid smoke.  Opened the window and hit the main "off" electrical..but still had flaming carpet only now with more oxygen on hand!!  Not a good situation.

 

 Altitude was about 1500 ft since I had just departed runway 18 so I was flying over a dense metropolitan part of North Little Rock at the time. I had my E6B available ( 1980 Jeppesen..metal and analog..no batteries required) and proceeded to stamp out the flaming carpet. Obviously, I made it back to the field.  On roll out I un-buckled,exited the aircraft at the point of a fast walking speed, and let her roll on. 

  

 Walked in shaken but otherwise ok to the FBO and promptly called the local FSDO office and the investigation later ended up being rather unfortunate for my flight instructor since he was also the aircraft owner. The co-axial was melted all the way back to the antenna on the belly...close to the lowest point fuel drain. Too close according to FAR's.

 

 So some of the ideas I intend to add are perhaps just stem from logic. Fuel dumps on Biz jets and Airliners are standard industry items for good reason..and for me this part of aviation systems safety is something I learned at 6 hours in my pilots log book.  Should be included on my homebuilt Experimentals. Cessna and Piper don't seem to think the same as I do on this topic. 

 

As the comedian Mr. Richard Prior once said "Fire is Inspirational!" I'll vouch that it is indeed.

 

 The canopy drag fairing and addition of the hoop are going in the build also. To emergency exit I plan on cutting the canopy from inside.           

 

 Any photos of your canopy mod?

 

 Vern 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 8:30 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

Hi Vern,

 

I built a transition like you describe into my forward canopy. It was partially to cut that draggy transition you describe  and partially to facilitate my split canopy. The forward portion of my canopy is permanently mounted, so that gave me the option of modifying the transition area.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

 

On Mar 21, 2021, at 5:54 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:



 

 

 Jay.. I was reviewing the high pressure areas on the Q2 plot and perhaps an addition of a fairing in front of the canopy/cowl location could be worthy of the effort. Jim Patillo in his tour video convinced me to rework the present forward hinged canopy on my shells (purchased the partial kit that way..but I was never comfortable with the workmanship..a bit ruff how the previous owner hinged it) to a parallel mechanism..but perhaps by canting the aft up..the canopy can fit behind a new blended fairing.

 

 Think how we insert a foot in a slip on shoe.  The old blonde joke.. TGIF.. Toes Go In First. Anyway..that is the visual. 

 

 The transition appears too blunt at present. 

 

Vern       

 










Ron








Frankenbird Vern
 

 Gud deal! When you can Jerry.. I am generating the build manual...same as my previous life in aviation 
where this was part of my job. Build plans based on the projected mission goal of the aircraft...in this case
the revisions to the original RAF manual. 

 I have plenty of documents to back up with also. Every newsletter from day one, paper and CD. I have the 
steel spring MKII sketches (not intended to go that way), Dragonfly items as well. Just about every factor 
other than individual revisions made custom by builders now aviating.

 The general status of the airframe is all the fuselage bulkheads are completed (by vacuum infusion, my preferred
method). The canopy was fitted by previous builder..the three other shells are untouched. Both flying surfaces are 
built..ailerons and elevators still to do. Vertical and Rudder not fabricated yet. I will be fabricating my own cowling 
from scratch. 

Vern        


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jerry Marstall <jnmarstall@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 8:16 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry
 

The next time I pull the cowling, I’ll take some pictures of the race car fire suppression system.  Unless I find pictures sooner.

Jerry

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io [mailto:main@Q-List.groups.io] On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 7:03 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

 Lot of good design and methods comes from the racing world. I look forward to what Jerry offers. I am grateful for your efforts and on another Blog dealing with aviation I suggest recording the build on thumb drive for the DAR and more especially a record for ones own memory support. Upload and store video is a boost to the Airworthiness sign off and later builders as myself. Also good was advising on overseas sign off. The Commonwealth Nations are particularly difficult. Delt with that a few times in my aircraft factory life, so I don't envy builders of Experimental in those parts of the world.

 

Vern   

 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 3:17 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

Hi Vern,

 

Yes, I preserved almost the entire area of the original plexiglass canopy, by sliding it “around the sphere” of the original glass shape. The following two videos are time lapse compression of my fabrication of the doors and overhead beam/console.

https://youtu.be/0Ct7ZWoG3yE

https://youtu.be/MzFPIyD-_f0

 

Yours sounds like a good plan for gas tank evacuation, provided it does not blowout the edge seams of the tanks.

 

You should query Jerry Marstall for his solution to automatic cockpit fire suppression, adapted from the motor car racing world. It looks like it would be very effective and is essentially automatic. I will allow him to elaborate further.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 1:50 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

 Excellent thought-out method, Jay. In a roll over you'd be without worry. I also see not much "sky" is blanked out for the needs of visual separation. I like your split design a lot. 👍

 

  That experience scared me enough to consider that Certificated ownership was (is) hampered by not being allowed to innovate legally! Even if it made logical sense to do mods. That being said; I owned and perfected N1100Y (1962 B model 150) as much as I could for over two decades.

 

My thoughts on the fuel eject is based on pressurizing the header tank to purposely blow a fuel jettison "fuse" just ahead of a jettison vent downstream from the main tank (at the lower "keel" and just forward of the shell joint seam); thereby both tanks are made empty in short order. Similar to how the pressure system works on some biz jets (Falcon 20 for one). For redundant seal protection, a manual valve is in front of the "fuse". Of course the dump handle is brite red, positive lockout, and placard indicated for it's use.  

 

 Once the decision is made to offload the benzine, there is for sure a dead stick landing on the way; but by that time PIC already has the chosen off field (or possibly with luck, an airport..) parking place.   

 

 Most of you guys know that I was very involved in the Engineering side of the 777 and 747 flammability program (affected all airliner new build fleets in all Nations from 2004 and on, not just America) and from that I learned a lot about what can be done under our cowling as well. 

 

 Not much weight or vast amounts of money to upgrade..and all of the mods are well known and tested to be effective. Just having the mental margin that you'd have a very good chance at surviving an in flight fire makes it worth the time and cost.

 

 There is no such thing as flight safety...but there is such a thing as risk management. As pilots, all of us (should) have training to back us up but if the airplane doesn't give us a chance to use it we would still end up taking a dirt nap needlessly.  

 

 After many millions in testing at the lazy B we made the grade by using Conolite and stainless or titanium details at all "penetrations". Also by capturing the joints (such as the IML of the cowling to the added Conolite firewall buffer) with cheap and lite fiberglass single adhesive tape (use 2" or 3" wide) under the panel attach fasteners, the structural elements are buffered from the heat once the tape adhesive gives up (about .5 seconds!). The fiberglass tape then "pillows" and an air pocket develops..so effective insulation happens at the joints automatically.  

 

 Using stainless steel screws and 1/2" long standoff tubes the thin Conolite sheet leaves a 1/2" air pocket from the original .025" thick stainless firewall, same thing happens with the Conolite, the resin boils out quickly and the fiberglass cloth remaining becomes effective flame block and insulation automatically. Because the fiberglass tape is on the inside of the cowling joints the fire cannot escape the aft cowling area junction at the fuselage. 

 

 Discharge a small Kidde foam fire extinguisher through nozzles located under the cowling and an oil fire no longer becomes a bad story for General Aviation aircraft on the 6 o'clock news. I have one in my Capella..it doesn't weigh much at all. 

 

Vern        

 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 11:12 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

Great story, Vern.

 

The fuel dump idea had occurred to me when I was building (and probably several others on this list), but I could not find a way to make it happen expeditiously, especially from the header tank, so I did not do that. I did make sure that if the tanks stay intact on a roll over, they will not dribble fuel all over me, but there is no guarantee that everything stays intact in such a circumstance that flips you over. Exiting the aircraft is a bit easier in my configuration, as the overhead console is very stiff (I have had two people sitting on it without any deflection, so will serve to keep the cockpit from being crushed. If you are inverted, once you push the door over center, it stays full open. Here is a photo of my configuration (taken immediately after my first flight).

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2021 9:01 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

 Ala.. Spitfire or perhaps P-51?  The addition of a carbon hoop "roll bar" already was in my build plan. I would like to see your split canopy method chosen. If in case of an unexpected Frankenbird "inverted parking position" I also planned on a simplistic fuel purge to be used prior to emergency touchdown. Offloading all the fuel possible would offer time to exit before a bar b cue event. 

 

 I've personally "enjoyed" an inflight fire. I had just soloed also. Had about 6.5 hours in my student pilot log book. 

 

 The transponder was removed for the inspection (the 152 was IFR equipped) and the remover (my instructor at the time) unknown to me failed to tie back the transponder co-axial cable behind the instrument panel. 

 

 Mr. Murphy stepped in on my solo flight (as he is quite apt to do in aviation) after the removal of the avionic unit, and the loose co-axial shielded ground cable welded itself to the positive buss bar behind the instrument panel. Sparks ..LOTs of sparks! The carpet was set afire...so I had the rather unpleasent experience of the WW1 "hot foot" and the single fuel selector valve near the flames in THICK acrid smoke.  Opened the window and hit the main "off" electrical..but still had flaming carpet only now with more oxygen on hand!!  Not a good situation.

 

 Altitude was about 1500 ft since I had just departed runway 18 so I was flying over a dense metropolitan part of North Little Rock at the time. I had my E6B available ( 1980 Jeppesen..metal and analog..no batteries required) and proceeded to stamp out the flaming carpet. Obviously, I made it back to the field.  On roll out I un-buckled,exited the aircraft at the point of a fast walking speed, and let her roll on. 

  

 Walked in shaken but otherwise ok to the FBO and promptly called the local FSDO office and the investigation later ended up being rather unfortunate for my flight instructor since he was also the aircraft owner. The co-axial was melted all the way back to the antenna on the belly...close to the lowest point fuel drain. Too close according to FAR's.

 

 So some of the ideas I intend to add are perhaps just stem from logic. Fuel dumps on Biz jets and Airliners are standard industry items for good reason..and for me this part of aviation systems safety is something I learned at 6 hours in my pilots log book.  Should be included on my homebuilt Experimentals. Cessna and Piper don't seem to think the same as I do on this topic. 

 

As the comedian Mr. Richard Prior once said "Fire is Inspirational!" I'll vouch that it is indeed.

 

 The canopy drag fairing and addition of the hoop are going in the build also. To emergency exit I plan on cutting the canopy from inside.           

 

 Any photos of your canopy mod?

 

 Vern 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 8:30 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

 

Hi Vern,

 

I built a transition like you describe into my forward canopy. It was partially to cut that draggy transition you describe  and partially to facilitate my split canopy. The forward portion of my canopy is permanently mounted, so that gave me the option of modifying the transition area.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

 

On Mar 21, 2021, at 5:54 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:



 

 

 Jay.. I was reviewing the high pressure areas on the Q2 plot and perhaps an addition of a fairing in front of the canopy/cowl location could be worthy of the effort. Jim Patillo in his tour video convinced me to rework the present forward hinged canopy on my shells (purchased the partial kit that way..but I was never comfortable with the workmanship..a bit ruff how the previous owner hinged it) to a parallel mechanism..but perhaps by canting the aft up..the canopy can fit behind a new blended fairing.

 

 Think how we insert a foot in a slip on shoe.  The old blonde joke.. TGIF.. Toes Go In First. Anyway..that is the visual. 

 

 The transition appears too blunt at present. 

 

Vern       

 










Ron








Chris Walterson
 

Any one have any interesting tricks for positioning the airplane to prime and paint. I am thinking of trying to partially stand the fuselage up to be able to access the bottom, and make some type of rotisserie for the tail section.  Any idea?     Chris


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Jay Scheevel
 

I made an appliance that attached to the engine mount and it allowed me to stand it up or put it right side up or upside down (with help of friends) depending on what I wanted to do. I can send pictures if you want.

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dorothea Keats
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 2:27 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

Any one have any interesting tricks for positioning the airplane to prime and paint. I am thinking of trying to partially stand the fuselage up to be able to access the bottom, and make some type of rotisserie for the tail section. Any idea? Chris


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Jim Patillo
 

Make a Tic Tac Toe 2x4 frame and attach to the 4 motor mounts. You can set the fuselage on the nose or rotate on 45degree increments. 

Jim
N46JP Q200

Sent from Outer Space


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 2:04:27 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry
 
I made an appliance that attached to the engine mount and it allowed me to stand it up or put it right side up or upside down (with help of friends) depending on what I wanted to do. I can send pictures if you want.

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dorothea Keats
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 2:27 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

   Any one have any interesting tricks for positioning the airplane to prime and paint. I am thinking of trying to partially stand the fuselage up to be able to access the bottom, and make some type of rotisserie for the tail section.  Any idea?     Chris


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Mike Steinsland
 

I've been kicking around an idea because I too have to flip this puppy soon

Attached a really really quick sketch of something I've been mulling over using some 3/4 ply I have laying around 

Make it out of plywood with a flat spot on the top and bottom 
Have the top tall enough to give you the right height when flipped over
I figure a couple of guys could flip it up on its nose and continue on to it's back.
Possibly put some locking castor wheels on it to move it around

On Tue., Mar. 23, 2021, 5:30 p.m. Jim Patillo, <Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:
Make a Tic Tac Toe 2x4 frame and attach to the 4 motor mounts. You can set the fuselage on the nose or rotate on 45degree increments. 

Jim
N46JP Q200

Sent from Outer Space

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 2:04:27 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry
 
I made an appliance that attached to the engine mount and it allowed me to stand it up or put it right side up or upside down (with help of friends) depending on what I wanted to do. I can send pictures if you want.

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dorothea Keats
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 2:27 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Forward Canopy geometry

   Any one have any interesting tricks for positioning the airplane to prime and paint. I am thinking of trying to partially stand the fuselage up to be able to access the bottom, and make some type of rotisserie for the tail section.  Any idea?     Chris


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Anthony P
 
Edited

With all the talk about fuel dumping, tank integrity, and motorsports, I'm very surprised I have not seen or heard of fuel cells or fuel bladders being used in homebuilt composite aircraft.
All of my race cars have used fuel cells with flexible and puncture resistant bladders.  Both of the companies I buy from started out in the aircraft industry and I think still serve that industry.

Here's a link to a common supplier of high end (expensive) onboard fire suppression systems used in amateur and professional car racing.
https://www.lifeline-fire.co.uk/


Bruce Crain
 

The airframe needs to be as light as possible.  The foam filled fuel tanks would take away a bit of fuel volume wouldn’t it?
Bruce


On Mar 23, 2021, at 6:18 PM, Anthony P <solarant@...> wrote:



[Edited Message Follows]

With all the talk about fuel dumping, tank integrity, and motorsports, I'm very surprised I have not seen or heard of fuel cells or fuel bladders being used in homebuilt composite aircraft.
All of my race cars have used fuel cells with flexible and puncture resistant bladders.  Both of the companies I buy from started out in the aircraft industry and I think still serve that industry.

Here's a link to a common supplier of high end (expensive) onboard fire suppression systems used in amateur and professional car racing.
https://www.lifeline-fire.co.uk/



Anthony P
 

You don't have to use foam.

I have a mid-tear 10 gal. cell and the bladder is 3 lbs.
They have higher priced and lighter bladder materials.

3 lbs doesn't seem to be too much of a sacrifice for the safety, especially if the alternative is a rapid dump/eject system.