Resin volume placed on foam


Eugen Pilarski
 

Dear Q-community,

the bulkheads of the Q1 are already cut and the worktable for vacuum-wrap is ready to go. After I study again the Quickie wokshop manual on page 3-11 in Step 7: Squeegeeing .......... If you’ve done an excellent job, the weight of resin will be about 2/3 of the weight of cloth used. ........

So we use glass with a weight of 296g/m2 and based on the number of Step 7 in Quickie built manual show up, that the requested resin will be 200g/m2 ( 2/3 of 300g/m is 200g). Is that correct?

But the laminate calculator of R&G get me out 243 g/m2 and is 20% more that Rutan numbers indicate, please find the link below: R&G laminate calculator 

Framework:
Fibre type: glass fibre - 2.6 g/cm3
Areal weight: 296g/m2
Fibre volume fraction: Hand-lay-up 35%
Number of layers: 1
Laminate thickness: 1mm
Width: 1000 mm
Lenkt: 1000 mm
Resin type: Epoxy Resin  - 1.15 g/cm3

print

Result:

Number of layers 1 Layers
Laminate thickness 0.33 mm
Fibre reinforcement surface area 1.00 m²
Fibre reinforcement gross weight 296 g
Resin quantity 243 g
Laminate weight 539 g
Fibre content (weight)  54.9 %
Fibre content (volume) 35.0 %

Did you guys fixed a resin volume per square meter during your building process as maximum or just the wet as should and dry as possible rule? 

I ask to understood how may resin should be placed on the foam to reach the material strength and stay in low weight at all parts that need to produce. So sounds like the old story......

Best regards

Eugen 


Jay Scheevel
 

Hi Eugen,

 

Don’t get too quantitative on your numbers. You want to make sure you have enough to fully wet-out the layup. More epoxy means more weight, but lack of epoxy means loss of strength, so there if you err, you must err on the wet end of the spectrum.

 

Since you are vacuum bagging the layup, you will want to use enough epoxy to assure the layup is wetted properly, then let the vacuum process squeeze out the excess. Make sure no air is in the layup, then let the absorbant layer on top of the release layer soak up the excess. Good luck.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eugen Pilarski
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 6:31 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam

 

Dear Q-community,

the bulkheads of the Q1 are already cut and the worktable for vacuum-wrap is ready to go. After I study again the Quickie wokshop manual on page 3-11 in Step 7: Squeegeeing .......... If you’ve done an excellent job, the weight of resin will be about 2/3 of the weight of cloth used. ........

So we use glass with a weight of 296g/m2 and based on the number of Step 7 in Quickie built manual show up, that the requested resin will be 200g/m2 ( 2/3 of 300g/m is 200g). Is that correct?

But the laminate calculator of R&G get me out 243 g/m2 and is 20% more that Rutan numbers indicate, please find the link below: R&G laminate calculator 

Framework:
Fibre type: glass fibre - 2.6 g/cm3
Areal weight: 296g/m2
Fibre volume fraction: Hand-lay-up 35%
Number of layers: 1
Laminate thickness: 1mm
Width: 1000 mm
Lenkt: 1000 mm
Resin type: Epoxy Resin  - 1.15 g/cm3

print

Result:

Number of layers

1 Layers

Laminate thickness

0.33 mm

Fibre reinforcement surface area

1.00 m²

Fibre reinforcement gross weight

296 g

Resin quantity

243 g

Laminate weight

539 g

Fibre content (weight) 

54.9 %

Fibre content (volume)

35.0 %


Did you guys fixed a resin volume per square meter during your building process as maximum or just the wet as should and dry as possible rule? 

I ask to understood how may resin should be placed on the foam to reach the material strength and stay in low weight at all parts that need to produce. So sounds like the old story......

Best regards

Eugen 


Rob de Bie
 

Eugen, I would be careful with vacuum bagging your parts. You're making quite a big change from the original building methods. The foam is not meant for full vacuum. And possibly it will absorb more resin due to the vacuum. I've done lots of vacuum injection, and the resin that goes into the foam cancels out all weight gains.

I fully understand your desire to build quality parts, but this might not work out so well. Maybe a light vacuum (if that exists :-) is a better way, say -0.1 or -0.2 bar.

Rob

On 23 Mar 2021 13:30, Eugen Pilarski wrote:
Dear Q-community,
the bulkheads of the Q1 are already cut and the worktable for vacuum-wrap is ready to go. After I study again the Quickie wokshop manual on page 3-11 in Step 7: Squeegeeing .......... If you’ve done an excellent job, the weight of resin will be about 2/3 of the weight of cloth used. ........
So we use glass with a weight of 296g/m2 and based on the number of Step 7 in Quickie built manual show up, that the requested resin will be 200g/m2 ( 2/3 of 300g/m is 200g). Is that correct?
But the laminate calculator of R&G get me out 243 g/m2 and is 20% more that Rutan numbers indicate, please find the link below: R&G laminate calculator <https://www.r-g.de/en/laminatecalculator.html>
Framework:
Fibre type: glass fibre - 2.6 g/cm3
Areal weight: 296g/m2
Fibre volume fraction: Hand-lay-up 35%
Number of layers: 1
Laminate thickness: 1mm
Width: 1000 mm
Lenkt: 1000 mm
Resin type: Epoxy Resin  - 1.15 g/cm3
print
Result:
Number of layers 1 Layers
Laminate thickness 0.33 mm
Fibre reinforcement surface area 1.00 m²
Fibre reinforcement gross weight 296 g
Resin quantity 243 g
Laminate weight 539 g
Fibre content (weight) 54.9 %
Fibre content (volume) 35.0 %
Did you guys fixed a resin volume per square meter during your building process as maximum or just the wet as should and dry as possible rule?
I ask to understood how may resin should be placed on the foam to reach the material strength and stay in low weight at all parts that need to produce. So sounds like the old story......
Best regards
Eugen


Bruce Crain
 

Hey Sammy Hoskins had the Cozy Girls show us some light vacuum bagging at one of our Field Of Dreams events in Illinois. It was very interesting and may be what you’re looking for. www.cozygirrrl.com
Bruce Crain
On Mar 23, 2021, at 12:10 PM, Rob de Bie <robdebie@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Eugen, I would be careful with vacuum bagging your parts. You're making quite a big change from the original building methods. The foam is not meant for full vacuum. And possibly it will absorb more resin due to the vacuum. I've done lots of vacuum injection, and the resin that goes into the foam cancels out all weight gains.

I fully understand your desire to build quality parts, but this might not work out so well. Maybe a light vacuum (if that exists :-) is a better way, say -0.1 or -0.2 bar.

Rob

On 23 Mar 2021 13:30, Eugen Pilarski wrote:
Dear Q-community,
the bulkheads of the Q1 are already cut and the worktable for vacuum-wrap is ready to go. After I study again the Quickie wokshop manual on page 3-11 in Step 7: Squeegeeing .......... If you’ve done an excellent job, the weight of resin will be about 2/3 of the weight of cloth used. ........
So we use glass with a weight of 296g/m2 and based on the number of Step 7 in Quickie built manual show up, that the requested resin will be 200g/m2 ( 2/3 of 300g/m is 200g). Is that correct?
But the laminate calculator of R&G get me out 243 g/m2 and is 20% more that Rutan numbers indicate, please find the link below: R&G laminate calculator <https://www.r-g.de/en/laminatecalculator.html>
Framework:
Fibre type: glass fibre - 2.6 g/cm3
Areal weight: 296g/m2
Fibre volume fraction: Hand-lay-up 35%
Number of layers: 1
Laminate thickness: 1mm
Width: 1000 mm
Lenkt: 1000 mm
Resin type: Epoxy Resin - 1.15 g/cm3
print
Result:
Number of layers 1 Layers
Laminate thickness 0.33 mm
Fibre reinforcement surface area 1.00 m²
Fibre reinforcement gross weight 296 g
Resin quantity 243 g
Laminate weight 539 g
Fibre content (weight) 54.9 %
Fibre content (volume) 35.0 %
Did you guys fixed a resin volume per square meter during your building process as maximum or just the wet as should and dry as possible rule?
I ask to understood how may resin should be placed on the foam to reach the material strength and stay in low weight at all parts that need to produce. So sounds like the old story......
Best regards
Eugen

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Jay Scheevel
 

I looked there too, Bruce, but I could not find their videos on vacuum bagging. Maybe they took them down. I remember them using a fish tank pump for vacuum.

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 1:25 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam

Hey Sammy Hoskins had the Cozy Girls show us some light vacuum bagging at one of our Field Of Dreams events in Illinois. It was very interesting and may be what you’re looking for. www.cozygirrrl.com
Bruce Crain
On Mar 23, 2021, at 12:10 PM, Rob de Bie <robdebie@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Eugen, I would be careful with vacuum bagging your parts. You're making quite a big change from the original building methods. The foam is not meant for full vacuum. And possibly it will absorb more resin due to the vacuum. I've done lots of vacuum injection, and the resin that goes into the foam cancels out all weight gains.

I fully understand your desire to build quality parts, but this might not work out so well. Maybe a light vacuum (if that exists :-) is a better way, say -0.1 or -0.2 bar.

Rob

On 23 Mar 2021 13:30, Eugen Pilarski wrote:
Dear Q-community,
the bulkheads of the Q1 are already cut and the worktable for vacuum-wrap is ready to go. After I study again the Quickie wokshop manual on page 3-11 in Step 7: Squeegeeing .......... If you’ve done an excellent job, the weight of resin will be about 2/3 of the weight of cloth used. ........
So we use glass with a weight of 296g/m2 and based on the number of Step 7 in Quickie built manual show up, that the requested resin will be 200g/m2 ( 2/3 of 300g/m is 200g). Is that correct?
But the laminate calculator of R&G get me out 243 g/m2 and is 20%
more that Rutan numbers indicate, please find the link below: R&G
laminate calculator <https://www.r-g.de/en/laminatecalculator.html>
Framework:
Fibre type: glass fibre - 2.6 g/cm3
Areal weight: 296g/m2
Fibre volume fraction: Hand-lay-up 35% Number of layers: 1 Laminate
thickness: 1mm
Width: 1000 mm
Lenkt: 1000 mm
Resin type: Epoxy Resin - 1.15 g/cm3 print
Result:
Number of layers 1 Layers
Laminate thickness 0.33 mm
Fibre reinforcement surface area 1.00 m²
Fibre reinforcement gross weight 296 g
Resin quantity 243 g
Laminate weight 539 g
Fibre content (weight) 54.9 %
Fibre content (volume) 35.0 %
Did you guys fixed a resin volume per square meter during your building process as maximum or just the wet as should and dry as possible rule?
I ask to understood how may resin should be placed on the foam to reach the material strength and stay in low weight at all parts that need to produce. So sounds like the old story......
Best regards
Eugen

____________________________________________________________
Sponsored by https://www.newser.com/?utm_source=part&utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_taglines_more

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Eugen Pilarski
 

Dear all,

thank you for your comments and information, very valuable. So far the fist bulkhead FS 89 is ready and the vacuum bag is filled. 

At first I mixed resin with a lot of 40,5g and separate 20g for micro and 20,5g for glass, but after the first 20g for micro was spread I need to go with the other 20,5g. After that the foam was „wet“ and every part of it was filled. The foam (Airex C70.55) is highly absorbent. After that I need to mix another 40.5g to fill the glass, remember the laminate calculator from R&G indicate a total resin demand of 29g for the FS89 bulkhead. So there is a gap between the calculator and that what I need in the end about 279%.

The foam weight naked is 82g, with the micro is 126g, the glass (insert not cut out yet) was 98,57g, the second load of resin was 40,5g, so currently the first layer include micro/resin and glass is around  265,7g. Additional to that I place on layer Compoflex to absorb the unnecessary resin form the surface and the vacuum is fixed at 840hPa, like Rob proposed in his email.

Some numbers for first Layer: 

FS89 
Foam 82 g 0,181 lbs 31%
Micro 44 g 0,097 lbs 17%
Glass 98,57 g 0,217 lbs 37%
Resin 40,5 g 0,089 lbs 15%
total 265,7 g 0,58 lbs 100%

Please find in the attachment some picture, at the end of this email.

Best regards 

Eugen 

Am 23.03.2021 um 21:21 schrieb Jay Scheevel <jay@...>:

I looked there too, Bruce, but I could not find their videos on vacuum bagging. Maybe they took them down.  I remember them using a fish tank pump for vacuum. 

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 1:25 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam

Hey Sammy Hoskins had the Cozy Girls show us some light vacuum bagging at one of our Field Of Dreams events in Illinois.  It was very interesting and may be what you’re looking for.   www.cozygirrrl.com
Bruce Crain
On Mar 23, 2021, at 12:10 PM, Rob de Bie <robdebie@...> wrote:
Eugen, I would be careful with vacuum bagging your parts. You're making quite a big change from the original building methods. The foam is not meant for full vacuum. And possibly it will absorb more resin due to the vacuum. I've done lots of vacuum injection, and the resin that goes into the foam cancels out all weight gains.

I fully understand your desire to build quality parts, but this might not work out so well. Maybe a light vacuum (if that exists :-) is a better way, say -0.1 or -0.2 bar.

Rob

On 23 Mar 2021 13:30, Eugen Pilarski wrote:
Dear Q-community,
the bulkheads of the Q1 are already cut and the worktable for vacuum-wrap is ready to go. After I study again the Quickie wokshop manual on page 3-11 in Step 7: Squeegeeing .......... If you’ve done an excellent job, the weight of resin will be about 2/3 of the weight of cloth used. ........
So we use glass with a weight of 296g/m2 and based on the number of Step 7 in Quickie built manual show up, that the requested resin will be 200g/m2 ( 2/3 of 300g/m is 200g). Is that correct?
But the laminate calculator of R&G get me out 243 g/m2 and is 20% 
more that Rutan numbers indicate, please find the link below: R&G 
laminate calculator <https://www.r-g.de/en/laminatecalculator.html>
Framework:
Fibre type: glass fibre - 2.6 g/cm3
Areal weight: 296g/m2
Fibre volume fraction: Hand-lay-up 35% Number of layers: 1 Laminate 
thickness: 1mm
Width: 1000 mm
Lenkt: 1000 mm
Resin type: Epoxy Resin  - 1.15 g/cm3 print
    Result:
Number of layers    1 Layers
Laminate thickness    0.33 mm
Fibre reinforcement surface area    1.00 m²
Fibre reinforcement gross weight    296 g
Resin quantity    243 g
Laminate weight    539 g
Fibre content (weight)    54.9 %
Fibre content (volume)    35.0 %
Did you guys fixed a resin volume per square meter during your building process as maximum or just the wet as should and dry as possible rule?
I ask to understood how may resin should be placed on the foam to reach the material strength and stay in low weight at all parts that need to produce. So sounds like the old story......
Best regards
Eugen




____________________________________________________________
Sponsored by https://www.newser.com/?utm_source=part&utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_taglines_more

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Rob de Bie
 

Eugen, now that I read your report, I have to correct myself. Airex C70.55 is definitely suitable for full vacuum. I was thinking about much lighter weight XPS foam.

I did almost similar experiments like you, probably using the same foam, applying micro on the foam, then laminating one or two glass layers. It was some 26 years ago, and unfortunately I no longer have the exact results. But I do remember being quite shocked / disappointed by the weight. I hope your end result is more satisfying.

Rob

On 23 Mar 2021 22:55, Eugen Pilarski wrote:
Dear all,
thank you for your comments and information, very valuable. So far the fist bulkhead FS 89 is ready and the vacuum bag is filled.
At first I mixed resin with a lot of 40,5g and separate 20g for micro and 20,5g for glass, but after the first 20g for micro was spread I need to go with the other 20,5g. After that the foam was „wet“ and every part of it was filled. The foam (Airex C70.55) is highly absorbent. After that I need to mix another 40.5g to fill the glass, remember the laminate calculator from R&G indicate a total resin demand of 29g for the FS89 bulkhead. So there is a gap between the calculator and that what I need in the end about 279%.
The foam weight naked is 82g, with the micro is 126g, the glass (insert not cut out yet) was 98,57g, the second load of resin was 40,5g, so currently the first layer include micro/resin and glass is around  265,7g. Additional to that I place on layer Compoflex to absorb the unnecessary resin form the surface and the vacuum is fixed at 840hPa, like Rob proposed in his email.
Some numbers for first Layer:
FS89
Foam 82 g 0,181 lbs 31%
Micro 44 g 0,097 lbs 17%
Glass 98,57 g 0,217 lbs 37%
Resin 40,5 g 0,089 lbs 15%
total 265,7 g 0,58 lbs 100%
Please find in the attachment some picture, at the end of this email.
Best regards
Eugen

Am 23.03.2021 um 21:21 schrieb Jay Scheevel <jay@scheevel.com <mailto:jay@scheevel.com>>:

I looked there too, Bruce, but I could not find their videos on vacuum bagging. Maybe they took them down.  I remember them using a fish tank pump for vacuum.

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From:main@Q-List.groups.io <mailto:main@Q-List.groups.io><main@Q-List.groups.io <mailto:main@Q-List.groups.io>> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 1:25 PM
To:main@q-list.groups.io <mailto:main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam

Hey Sammy Hoskins had the Cozy Girls show us some light vacuum bagging at one of our Field Of Dreams events in Illinois.  It was very interesting and may be what you’re looking for. www.cozygirrrl.com <http://www.cozygirrrl.com>
Bruce Crain
On Mar 23, 2021, at 12:10 PM, Rob de Bie <robdebie@xs4all.nl <mailto:robdebie@xs4all.nl>> wrote:
Eugen, I would be careful with vacuum bagging your parts. You're making quite a big change from the original building methods. The foam is not meant for full vacuum. And possibly it will absorb more resin due to the vacuum. I've done lots of vacuum injection, and the resin that goes into the foam cancels out all weight gains.

I fully understand your desire to build quality parts, but this might not work out so well. Maybe a light vacuum (if that exists :-) is a better way, say -0.1 or -0.2 bar.

Rob

On 23 Mar 2021 13:30, Eugen Pilarski wrote:
Dear Q-community,
the bulkheads of the Q1 are already cut and the worktable for vacuum-wrap is ready to go. After I study again the Quickie wokshop manual on page 3-11 in Step 7: Squeegeeing .......... If you’ve done an excellent job, the weight of resin will be about 2/3 of the weight of cloth used. ........
So we use glass with a weight of 296g/m2 and based on the number of Step 7 in Quickie built manual show up, that the requested resin will be 200g/m2 ( 2/3 of 300g/m is 200g). Is that correct?
But the laminate calculator of R&G get me out 243 g/m2 and is 20%
more that Rutan numbers indicate, please find the link below: R&G
laminate calculator <https://www.r-g.de/en/laminatecalculator.html <https://www.r-g.de/en/laminatecalculator.html>>
Framework:
Fibre type: glass fibre - 2.6 g/cm3
Areal weight: 296g/m2
Fibre volume fraction: Hand-lay-up 35% Number of layers: 1 Laminate
thickness: 1mm
Width: 1000 mm
Lenkt: 1000 mm
Resin type: Epoxy Resin  - 1.15 g/cm3 print
    Result:
Number of layers    1 Layers
Laminate thickness    0.33 mm
Fibre reinforcement surface area    1.00 m²
Fibre reinforcement gross weight    296 g
Resin quantity    243 g
Laminate weight    539 g
Fibre content (weight)    54.9 %
Fibre content (volume)    35.0 %
Did you guys fixed a resin volume per square meter during your building process as maximum or just the wet as should and dry as possible rule?
I ask to understood how may resin should be placed on the foam to reach the material strength and stay in low weight at all parts that need to produce. So sounds like the old story......
Best regards
Eugen

____________________________________________________________
Sponsored by https://www.newser.com/?utm_source=part&utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_taglines_more <https://www.newser.com/?utm_source=part&utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_taglines_more>

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smeshno1@...
 

 Vern at one time owned Cozy plans set #43... and my plan back then was to build a 13B rotary which was pretty innovative in 1982..I had the engine all ready.. lots of Racing Beat ideas and parts. 

 My fellow Starship R&D techs used to razz me about which fuel I was going to use.. maybe Saki? Dave Blanton jr was also on the Starship Department 45 team and his Dad had a company building reduction drives for V6 Fords. He had a 172 with one under cowling in Augusta Kansas. That was the drive I intended to mate to the Rotary. The drive never did pan out well..lots of bad noises as I learned.    
  
 I never met the Cozy girls but did read some of the blog in the past. It warms my heart that the aircraft did get built and that engine does indeed perform well. 

I also searched today as Jay did.. didn't find the vacuum lite either, but it is interesting to learn process differences.

 Me wonders if they can send a link to our list group if it still exists?    


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 3:21 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
 
I looked there too, Bruce, but I could not find their videos on vacuum bagging. Maybe they took them down.  I remember them using a fish tank pump for vacuum.

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 1:25 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam

Hey Sammy Hoskins had the Cozy Girls show us some light vacuum bagging at one of our Field Of Dreams events in Illinois.  It was very interesting and may be what you’re looking for.   www.cozygirrrl.com
Bruce Crain
> On Mar 23, 2021, at 12:10 PM, Rob de Bie <robdebie@...> wrote:
> Eugen, I would be careful with vacuum bagging your parts. You're making quite a big change from the original building methods. The foam is not meant for full vacuum. And possibly it will absorb more resin due to the vacuum. I've done lots of vacuum injection, and the resin that goes into the foam cancels out all weight gains.
>
> I fully understand your desire to build quality parts, but this might not work out so well. Maybe a light vacuum (if that exists :-) is a better way, say -0.1 or -0.2 bar.
>
> Rob
>
>> On 23 Mar 2021 13:30, Eugen Pilarski wrote:
>> Dear Q-community,
>> the bulkheads of the Q1 are already cut and the worktable for vacuum-wrap is ready to go. After I study again the Quickie wokshop manual on page 3-11 in Step 7: Squeegeeing .......... If you’ve done an excellent job, the weight of resin will be about 2/3 of the weight of cloth used. ........
>> So we use glass with a weight of 296g/m2 and based on the number of Step 7 in Quickie built manual show up, that the requested resin will be 200g/m2 ( 2/3 of 300g/m is 200g). Is that correct?
>> But the laminate calculator of R&G get me out 243 g/m2 and is 20%
>> more that Rutan numbers indicate, please find the link below: R&G
>> laminate calculator <https://www.r-g.de/en/laminatecalculator.html>
>> Framework:
>> Fibre type: glass fibre - 2.6 g/cm3
>> Areal weight: 296g/m2
>> Fibre volume fraction: Hand-lay-up 35% Number of layers: 1 Laminate
>> thickness: 1mm
>> Width: 1000 mm
>> Lenkt: 1000 mm
>> Resin type: Epoxy Resin  - 1.15 g/cm3 print
>>      Result:
>> Number of layers    1 Layers
>> Laminate thickness    0.33 mm
>> Fibre reinforcement surface area    1.00 m²
>> Fibre reinforcement gross weight    296 g
>> Resin quantity    243 g
>> Laminate weight    539 g
>> Fibre content (weight)    54.9 %
>> Fibre content (volume)    35.0 %
>> Did you guys fixed a resin volume per square meter during your building process as maximum or just the wet as should and dry as possible rule?
>> I ask to understood how may resin should be placed on the foam to reach the material strength and stay in low weight at all parts that need to produce. So sounds like the old story......
>> Best regards
>> Eugen
>
>
>

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Bruce Crain
 

From memory the Cozy girls said “you won’t save any weight with their vacuum bagging.  It just made smooth uniform pieces that didn’t need much filler”.  That’s from about 10+ years ago so I can’t “etch that in stone”.
Bruce 


On Mar 23, 2021, at 7:01 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:


 Vern at one time owned Cozy plans set #43... and my plan back then was to build a 13B rotary which was pretty innovative in 1982..I had the engine all ready.. lots of Racing Beat ideas and parts. 

 My fellow Starship R&D techs used to razz me about which fuel I was going to use.. maybe Saki? Dave Blanton jr was also on the Starship Department 45 team and his Dad had a company building reduction drives for V6 Fords. He had a 172 with one under cowling in Augusta Kansas. That was the drive I intended to mate to the Rotary. The drive never did pan out well..lots of bad noises as I learned.    
  
 I never met the Cozy girls but did read some of the blog in the past. It warms my heart that the aircraft did get built and that engine does indeed perform well. 

I also searched today as Jay did.. didn't find the vacuum lite either, but it is interesting to learn process differences.

 Me wonders if they can send a link to our list group if it still exists?    


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 3:21 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
 
I looked there too, Bruce, but I could not find their videos on vacuum bagging. Maybe they took them down.  I remember them using a fish tank pump for vacuum.

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 1:25 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam

Hey Sammy Hoskins had the Cozy Girls show us some light vacuum bagging at one of our Field Of Dreams events in Illinois.  It was very interesting and may be what you’re looking for.   www.cozygirrrl.com
Bruce Crain
> On Mar 23, 2021, at 12:10 PM, Rob de Bie <robdebie@...> wrote:
> Eugen, I would be careful with vacuum bagging your parts. You're making quite a big change from the original building methods. The foam is not meant for full vacuum. And possibly it will absorb more resin due to the vacuum. I've done lots of vacuum injection, and the resin that goes into the foam cancels out all weight gains.
>
> I fully understand your desire to build quality parts, but this might not work out so well. Maybe a light vacuum (if that exists :-) is a better way, say -0.1 or -0.2 bar.
>
> Rob
>
>> On 23 Mar 2021 13:30, Eugen Pilarski wrote:
>> Dear Q-community,
>> the bulkheads of the Q1 are already cut and the worktable for vacuum-wrap is ready to go. After I study again the Quickie wokshop manual on page 3-11 in Step 7: Squeegeeing .......... If you’ve done an excellent job, the weight of resin will be about 2/3 of the weight of cloth used. ........
>> So we use glass with a weight of 296g/m2 and based on the number of Step 7 in Quickie built manual show up, that the requested resin will be 200g/m2 ( 2/3 of 300g/m is 200g). Is that correct?
>> But the laminate calculator of R&G get me out 243 g/m2 and is 20%
>> more that Rutan numbers indicate, please find the link below: R&G
>> laminate calculator <https://www.r-g.de/en/laminatecalculator.html>
>> Framework:
>> Fibre type: glass fibre - 2.6 g/cm3
>> Areal weight: 296g/m2
>> Fibre volume fraction: Hand-lay-up 35% Number of layers: 1 Laminate
>> thickness: 1mm
>> Width: 1000 mm
>> Lenkt: 1000 mm
>> Resin type: Epoxy Resin  - 1.15 g/cm3 print
>>      Result:
>> Number of layers    1 Layers
>> Laminate thickness    0.33 mm
>> Fibre reinforcement surface area    1.00 m²
>> Fibre reinforcement gross weight    296 g
>> Resin quantity    243 g
>> Laminate weight    539 g
>> Fibre content (weight)    54.9 %
>> Fibre content (volume)    35.0 %
>> Did you guys fixed a resin volume per square meter during your building process as maximum or just the wet as should and dry as possible rule?
>> I ask to understood how may resin should be placed on the foam to reach the material strength and stay in low weight at all parts that need to produce. So sounds like the old story......
>> Best regards
>> Eugen
>
>
>

____________________________________________________________
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Sam Hoskins
 

You can contact Chrissi Bush at  cozygirrrl@....

I fear your efforts at saving a few grams, while  admirable, may prevent you from ever finishing your aircraft unless you are looking to break Jay Scheevel's record of time to build.

Or maybe I'm misinterpreting what you are trying to accomplish here. At any rate, enjoy your project and keep reporting back.

Sam Hoskins
Q-200 

On Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 7:57 PM Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:
From memory the Cozy girls said “you won’t save any weight with their vacuum bagging.  It just made smooth uniform pieces that didn’t need much filler”.  That’s from about 10+ years ago so I can’t “etch that in stone”.
Bruce 


On Mar 23, 2021, at 7:01 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:


 Vern at one time owned Cozy plans set #43... and my plan back then was to build a 13B rotary which was pretty innovative in 1982..I had the engine all ready.. lots of Racing Beat ideas and parts. 

 My fellow Starship R&D techs used to razz me about which fuel I was going to use.. maybe Saki? Dave Blanton jr was also on the Starship Department 45 team and his Dad had a company building reduction drives for V6 Fords. He had a 172 with one under cowling in Augusta Kansas. That was the drive I intended to mate to the Rotary. The drive never did pan out well..lots of bad noises as I learned.    
  
 I never met the Cozy girls but did read some of the blog in the past. It warms my heart that the aircraft did get built and that engine does indeed perform well. 

I also searched today as Jay did.. didn't find the vacuum lite either, but it is interesting to learn process differences.

 Me wonders if they can send a link to our list group if it still exists?    


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 3:21 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
 
I looked there too, Bruce, but I could not find their videos on vacuum bagging. Maybe they took them down.  I remember them using a fish tank pump for vacuum.

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 1:25 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam

Hey Sammy Hoskins had the Cozy Girls show us some light vacuum bagging at one of our Field Of Dreams events in Illinois.  It was very interesting and may be what you’re looking for.   www.cozygirrrl.com
Bruce Crain
> On Mar 23, 2021, at 12:10 PM, Rob de Bie <robdebie@...> wrote:
> Eugen, I would be careful with vacuum bagging your parts. You're making quite a big change from the original building methods. The foam is not meant for full vacuum. And possibly it will absorb more resin due to the vacuum. I've done lots of vacuum injection, and the resin that goes into the foam cancels out all weight gains.
>
> I fully understand your desire to build quality parts, but this might not work out so well. Maybe a light vacuum (if that exists :-) is a better way, say -0.1 or -0.2 bar.
>
> Rob
>
>> On 23 Mar 2021 13:30, Eugen Pilarski wrote:
>> Dear Q-community,
>> the bulkheads of the Q1 are already cut and the worktable for vacuum-wrap is ready to go. After I study again the Quickie wokshop manual on page 3-11 in Step 7: Squeegeeing .......... If you’ve done an excellent job, the weight of resin will be about 2/3 of the weight of cloth used. ........
>> So we use glass with a weight of 296g/m2 and based on the number of Step 7 in Quickie built manual show up, that the requested resin will be 200g/m2 ( 2/3 of 300g/m is 200g). Is that correct?
>> But the laminate calculator of R&G get me out 243 g/m2 and is 20%
>> more that Rutan numbers indicate, please find the link below: R&G
>> laminate calculator <https://www.r-g.de/en/laminatecalculator.html>
>> Framework:
>> Fibre type: glass fibre - 2.6 g/cm3
>> Areal weight: 296g/m2
>> Fibre volume fraction: Hand-lay-up 35% Number of layers: 1 Laminate
>> thickness: 1mm
>> Width: 1000 mm
>> Lenkt: 1000 mm
>> Resin type: Epoxy Resin  - 1.15 g/cm3 print
>>      Result:
>> Number of layers    1 Layers
>> Laminate thickness    0.33 mm
>> Fibre reinforcement surface area    1.00 m²
>> Fibre reinforcement gross weight    296 g
>> Resin quantity    243 g
>> Laminate weight    539 g
>> Fibre content (weight)    54.9 %
>> Fibre content (volume)    35.0 %
>> Did you guys fixed a resin volume per square meter during your building process as maximum or just the wet as should and dry as possible rule?
>> I ask to understood how may resin should be placed on the foam to reach the material strength and stay in low weight at all parts that need to produce. So sounds like the old story......
>> Best regards
>> Eugen
>
>
>

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Christoph Steiner
 

Here is the description of the Cozygirrls LoVac method:

https://web.archive.org/web/20080515110218fw_/http://www.cozygirrrl.com/lovac.htm

Christoph Steiner

Am 23.03.2021 um 21:21 schrieb Jay Scheevel <jay@scheevel.com>:

I looked there too, Bruce, but I could not find their videos on vacuum bagging. Maybe they took them down. I remember them using a fish tank pump for vacuum.

……
Hey Sammy Hoskins had the Cozy Girls show us some light vacuum bagging at one of our Field Of Dreams events in Illinois. It was very interesting and may be what you’re looking for. www.cozygirrrl.com
Bruce Crain


Rob de Bie
 

From memory, the Cri-Cri build manual suggest the use of a regular household vacuum cleaner, for the build step where you glue the aluminum skin on the Klegecell ribs.

I would guess you can pull just a light vacuum with a vacuum cleaner, maybe 0.2 or 0.3 bar, which would be perfect. But I would take a look at the cooling of the motor - if there is no air flow, there is no cooling I guess.

Rob

On 24 Mar 2021 08:22, Christoph Steiner via groups.io wrote:
Here is the description of the Cozygirrls LoVac method:
https://web.archive.org/web/20080515110218fw_/http://www.cozygirrrl.com/lovac.htm
Christoph Steiner

Am 23.03.2021 um 21:21 schrieb Jay Scheevel <jay@scheevel.com>:

I looked there too, Bruce, but I could not find their videos on vacuum bagging. Maybe they took them down. I remember them using a fish tank pump for vacuum.

……
Hey Sammy Hoskins had the Cozy Girls show us some light vacuum bagging at one of our Field Of Dreams events in Illinois. It was very interesting and may be what you’re looking for. www.cozygirrrl.com
Bruce Crain


Eugen Pilarski
 

For the vacuum bagging I build up a pump station with a digital pressure switch (SMV ZSE30A),  so I’m able to set up any pressure level which the process requested. Please find below the link with some drawings and pictures. https://aerobase.weebly.com/vaccum-pump-station.html

For the vacuum pump unit I use Brand Thomas , please find below a link from eBay to show a example, https://www.ebay.com/itm/Thomas-Vacuum-Pump-2639VES44-337A-Pumps-Compressor/323746918283?hash=item4b60d1ef8b:g:P8UAAOSwzilZvXgb
In my last vacuum bag projects there was not any issue about temperature but to find leaks in my bag was the biggest challenge at all :-) 

Please find below a picture from bulkhead FS83 after 16h fixed in vaccum bag.

Best regards

Eugen



Am 24.03.2021 um 13:35 schrieb Rob de Bie <robdebie@...>:

From memory, the Cri-Cri build manual suggest the use of a regular household vacuum cleaner, for the build step where you glue the aluminum skin on the Klegecell ribs.

I would guess you can pull just a light vacuum with a vacuum cleaner, maybe 0.2 or 0.3 bar, which would be perfect. But I would take a look at the cooling of the motor - if there is no air flow, there is no cooling I guess.

Rob

On 24 Mar 2021 08:22, Christoph Steiner via groups.io wrote:
Here is the description of the Cozygirrls LoVac method:
https://web.archive.org/web/20080515110218fw_/http://www.cozygirrrl.com/lovac.htm
Christoph Steiner
Am 23.03.2021 um 21:21 schrieb Jay Scheevel <jay@...>:

I looked there too, Bruce, but I could not find their videos on vacuum bagging. Maybe they took them down.  I remember them using a fish tank pump for vacuum.

……
Hey Sammy Hoskins had the Cozy Girls show us some light vacuum bagging at one of our Field Of Dreams events in Illinois.  It was very interesting and may be what you’re looking for.   www.cozygirrrl.com
Bruce Crain







Rob de Bie
 

Eugen, that looks like an excellent setup, especially with the vacuum (buffer) tanks. That saves a lot of running hours on your pump.

One additional comment, triggered by your photo: I experienced that vacuum bagging resulted in a very dry layup, too dry actually. Maybe the bleeder layer was too thick? I never completely understood what happened there. Thinking about it now, just maybe the vacuum was too deep, and the resin started foaming, and ended up in the bleeder? I don't know, but it shows again that vacuum bagging can have unwanted effects, and vacuum level control is important. Watch out for this effect.

Rob

On 24 Mar 2021 14:02, Eugen Pilarski wrote:
For the vacuum bagging I build up a pump station with a digital pressure switch (SMV ZSE30A),  so I’m able to set up any pressure level which the process requested. Please find below the link with some drawings and pictures. https://aerobase.weebly.com/vaccum-pump-station.html <https://aerobase.weebly.com/vaccum-pump-station.html>
For the vacuum pump unit I use Brand Thomas , please find below a link from eBay to show a example, https://www.ebay.com/itm/Thomas-Vacuum-Pump-2639VES44-337A-Pumps-Compressor/323746918283?hash=item4b60d1ef8b:g:P8UAAOSwzilZvXgb <https://www.ebay.com/itm/Thomas-Vacuum-Pump-2639VES44-337A-Pumps-Compressor/323746918283?hash=item4b60d1ef8b:g:P8UAAOSwzilZvXgb>
In my last vacuum bag projects there was not any issue about temperature but to find leaks in my bag was the biggest challenge at all :-)
Please find below a picture from bulkhead FS83 after 16h fixed in vaccum bag.
Best regards
Eugen

Am 24.03.2021 um 13:35 schrieb Rob de Bie <robdebie@xs4all.nl <mailto:robdebie@xs4all.nl>>:

From memory, the Cri-Cri build manual suggest the use of a regular household vacuum cleaner, for the build step where you glue the aluminum skin on the Klegecell ribs.

I would guess you can pull just a light vacuum with a vacuum cleaner, maybe 0.2 or 0.3 bar, which would be perfect. But I would take a look at the cooling of the motor - if there is no air flow, there is no cooling I guess.

Rob

On 24 Mar 2021 08:22, Christoph Steiner via groups.io <http://groups.io> wrote:
Here is the description of the Cozygirrls LoVac method:
https://web.archive.org/web/20080515110218fw_/http://www.cozygirrrl.com/lovac.htm <https://web.archive.org/web/20080515110218fw_/http://www.cozygirrrl.com/lovac.htm>
Christoph Steiner
Am 23.03.2021 um 21:21 schrieb Jay Scheevel <jay@scheevel.com>:

I looked there too, Bruce, but I could not find their videos on vacuum bagging. Maybe they took them down.  I remember them using a fish tank pump for vacuum.

……
Hey Sammy Hoskins had the Cozy Girls show us some light vacuum bagging at one of our Field Of Dreams events in Illinois.  It was very interesting and may be what you’re looking for.   www.cozygirrrl.com
Bruce Crain




smeshno1@...
 

 To give Rutan much credit..he erred by being a bit too heavy in resin but the result is safe homebuilt structures.  Keep in mind, he had full access to all that Raytheon Beechcraft R&D had available, therefore he knew all the latest techniques and materials we had, and still his method at RAF was what is taught in our Q2 and other tool-less composite aircraft plans sets. I chatted many times with the folks at Scaled Composits and they never used any other method on any of the concept aircraft at the time.  

 In Production this porosity condition is why now the pressure and temps are "ramped" both up and down. Porosity in the finished product is caused by error in regulation. Over decades and with much R&D at Beech and Boeing, later Airbus; the correct programs were discovered. Mostly the early issues were with too high pressure and simply throwing the coals to the fire so to speak.  Todays methods with honeycomb core the situation of improving bond to the curing pre-preg at lower peak pressures is addressed using adhesive film.   

 Rob has a valid point that too much vacuum can and will dry the wetout. Insufficient resin. The bleeder wicks the uncured resin by design. What thickness were you using Rob? 

 Using Infusion the resin is drawn through the dry layup at a rate that is timed..so the over vacuum condition is controlled. At the size of this airframe I have doubts that a great deal of weight is built in by using the plans methods. Non structural parts, for myself, I have no qualms about using the vacuum process and tooling (caul and contoured).
 
 I accept the Frankenbird is a bit heavy but I'm not concerned about a compressive failure in heavy chop either. I could stand to loose a few pounds off my 64 year old tired ass to make up the difference. That is why the Canard and Wing are per plans Dragonfly.. wet out..stipple..squeegee....dry micro..sand sand sand...primer..more sanding..primer again..more sanding. Not much fun but part of the process.            

Vern


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Rob de Bie <robdebie@...>
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2021 8:26 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
 
Eugen, that looks like an excellent setup, especially with the vacuum (buffer) tanks. That saves a
lot of running hours on your pump.

One additional comment, triggered by your photo: I experienced that vacuum bagging resulted in a
very dry layup, too dry actually. Maybe the bleeder layer was too thick? I never completely
understood what happened there. Thinking about it now, just maybe the vacuum was too deep, and the
resin started foaming, and ended up in the bleeder? I don't know, but it shows again that vacuum
bagging can have unwanted effects, and vacuum level control is important. Watch out for this effect.

Rob

On 24 Mar 2021 14:02, Eugen Pilarski wrote:
> For the vacuum bagging I build up a pump station with a digital pressure switch (SMV ZSE30A),  so
> I’m able to set up any pressure level which the process requested. Please find below the link with
> some drawings and pictures. https://aerobase.weebly.com/vaccum-pump-station.html
> <https://aerobase.weebly.com/vaccum-pump-station.html>
>
> For the vacuum pump unit I use Brand Thomas , please find below a link from eBay to show a example,
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Thomas-Vacuum-Pump-2639VES44-337A-Pumps-Compressor/323746918283?hash=item4b60d1ef8b:g:P8UAAOSwzilZvXgb
> <https://www.ebay.com/itm/Thomas-Vacuum-Pump-2639VES44-337A-Pumps-Compressor/323746918283?hash=item4b60d1ef8b:g:P8UAAOSwzilZvXgb>
> In my last vacuum bag projects there was not any issue about temperature but to find leaks in my bag
> was the biggest challenge at all :-)
>
> Please find below a picture from bulkhead FS83 after 16h fixed in vaccum bag.
>
> Best regards
>
> Eugen
>
>
>
>> Am 24.03.2021 um 13:35 schrieb Rob de Bie <robdebie@... <mailto:robdebie@...>>:
>>
>> From memory, the Cri-Cri build manual suggest the use of a regular household vacuum cleaner, for
>> the build step where you glue the aluminum skin on the Klegecell ribs.
>>
>> I would guess you can pull just a light vacuum with a vacuum cleaner, maybe 0.2 or 0.3 bar, which
>> would be perfect. But I would take a look at the cooling of the motor - if there is no air flow,
>> there is no cooling I guess.
>>
>> Rob
>>
>> On 24 Mar 2021 08:22, Christoph Steiner via groups.io <http://groups.io> wrote:
>>> Here is the description of the Cozygirrls LoVac method:
>>> https://web.archive.org/web/20080515110218fw_/http://www.cozygirrrl.com/lovac.htm
>>> <https://web.archive.org/web/20080515110218fw_/http://www.cozygirrrl.com/lovac.htm>
>>> Christoph Steiner
>>>> Am 23.03.2021 um 21:21 schrieb Jay Scheevel <jay@...>:
>>>>
>>>> I looked there too, Bruce, but I could not find their videos on vacuum bagging. Maybe they took
>>>> them down.  I remember them using a fish tank pump for vacuum.
>>>>
>>>> ……
>>>> Hey Sammy Hoskins had the Cozy Girls show us some light vacuum bagging at one of our Field Of
>>>> Dreams events in Illinois.  It was very interesting and may be what you’re looking for.
>>>>   www.cozygirrrl.com
>>>> Bruce Crain
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>






smeshno1@...
 

 Yes.. and with caul sheet and/or tooling surfaces this is especially true. Saves lots of TIME..but not a lot in weight. 

 Of course, in a production setting time reduction is a major part of the path to profits. Big difference in mission of the projects. Our project out in our shop is not demanding a profit margin for the stockholders.  I personally have no problems with anyone using all the up to date techniques if one wishes to do so..if the structure is good..no problem. God knows we have (and STILL have) plenty of failures in mass production in parts...even with the most fancy dancy methods and toys money can buy!.   Not me.. I'm not looking to save 10 pounds over all and spend oodles of time and greenbacks to get them. I had to do that as a job over 30 years..chasing time and methods all over the place for a few pounds or minutes saving.  

 I'm interested in adding safety and access using the existing methods and structure as much as possible.

Vern       


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 7:56 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
 
From memory the Cozy girls said “you won’t save any weight with their vacuum bagging.  It just made smooth uniform pieces that didn’t need much filler”.  That’s from about 10+ years ago so I can’t “etch that in stone”.
Bruce 


On Mar 23, 2021, at 7:01 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:


 Vern at one time owned Cozy plans set #43... and my plan back then was to build a 13B rotary which was pretty innovative in 1982..I had the engine all ready.. lots of Racing Beat ideas and parts. 

 My fellow Starship R&D techs used to razz me about which fuel I was going to use.. maybe Saki? Dave Blanton jr was also on the Starship Department 45 team and his Dad had a company building reduction drives for V6 Fords. He had a 172 with one under cowling in Augusta Kansas. That was the drive I intended to mate to the Rotary. The drive never did pan out well..lots of bad noises as I learned.    
  
 I never met the Cozy girls but did read some of the blog in the past. It warms my heart that the aircraft did get built and that engine does indeed perform well. 

I also searched today as Jay did.. didn't find the vacuum lite either, but it is interesting to learn process differences.

 Me wonders if they can send a link to our list group if it still exists?    


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 3:21 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
 
I looked there too, Bruce, but I could not find their videos on vacuum bagging. Maybe they took them down.  I remember them using a fish tank pump for vacuum.

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 1:25 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam

Hey Sammy Hoskins had the Cozy Girls show us some light vacuum bagging at one of our Field Of Dreams events in Illinois.  It was very interesting and may be what you’re looking for.   www.cozygirrrl.com
Bruce Crain
> On Mar 23, 2021, at 12:10 PM, Rob de Bie <robdebie@...> wrote:
> Eugen, I would be careful with vacuum bagging your parts. You're making quite a big change from the original building methods. The foam is not meant for full vacuum. And possibly it will absorb more resin due to the vacuum. I've done lots of vacuum injection, and the resin that goes into the foam cancels out all weight gains.
>
> I fully understand your desire to build quality parts, but this might not work out so well. Maybe a light vacuum (if that exists :-) is a better way, say -0.1 or -0.2 bar.
>
> Rob
>
>> On 23 Mar 2021 13:30, Eugen Pilarski wrote:
>> Dear Q-community,
>> the bulkheads of the Q1 are already cut and the worktable for vacuum-wrap is ready to go. After I study again the Quickie wokshop manual on page 3-11 in Step 7: Squeegeeing .......... If you’ve done an excellent job, the weight of resin will be about 2/3 of the weight of cloth used. ........
>> So we use glass with a weight of 296g/m2 and based on the number of Step 7 in Quickie built manual show up, that the requested resin will be 200g/m2 ( 2/3 of 300g/m is 200g). Is that correct?
>> But the laminate calculator of R&G get me out 243 g/m2 and is 20%
>> more that Rutan numbers indicate, please find the link below: R&G
>> laminate calculator <https://www.r-g.de/en/laminatecalculator.html>
>> Framework:
>> Fibre type: glass fibre - 2.6 g/cm3
>> Areal weight: 296g/m2
>> Fibre volume fraction: Hand-lay-up 35% Number of layers: 1 Laminate
>> thickness: 1mm
>> Width: 1000 mm
>> Lenkt: 1000 mm
>> Resin type: Epoxy Resin  - 1.15 g/cm3 print
>>      Result:
>> Number of layers    1 Layers
>> Laminate thickness    0.33 mm
>> Fibre reinforcement surface area    1.00 m²
>> Fibre reinforcement gross weight    296 g
>> Resin quantity    243 g
>> Laminate weight    539 g
>> Fibre content (weight)    54.9 %
>> Fibre content (volume)    35.0 %
>> Did you guys fixed a resin volume per square meter during your building process as maximum or just the wet as should and dry as possible rule?
>> I ask to understood how may resin should be placed on the foam to reach the material strength and stay in low weight at all parts that need to produce. So sounds like the old story......
>> Best regards
>> Eugen
>
>
>

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Robert Cringely
 

Ideally you want 50 percent glass and 50 percent resin by weight, which is what you generally get with pre-preg. But, as another poster noted, there can be a dry lay-up problem if you push too hard in that direction, hence that original guidance about aiming for 60 percent resin, which is pretty okay and better than most. But there's another problem to be considered with Rutan construction, which is whatever weight you save in the lay-up you are likely to lose in the finishing. It amazes me to see builders who fight for that last ounce of resin then slather Bondo on the final surface for finishing. Yes, most of the Bondo is sanded off and yes, you can use micro instead of Bondo, but it still makes good sense to take a holistic approach to composite work. Your vacuum bagging sounds great, but keep the finish line in mind.

I'll always remember the wisdom of Dragonfly designer Bob Walters, writing in Sport Aviation. Bob maintained that humans can tolerate only so much sanding and paint prep, so if you spend too much time on the prep you can't help yourself but rush to finish the painting. He thought the psychological sanding limit was 250 hours. So if you obsess too much with the early stuff, you'll rush too much at the end and the plane will show it. Wise man.

On Wed, Mar 24, 2021 at 10:18 AM <smeshno1@...> wrote:
 Yes.. and with caul sheet and/or tooling surfaces this is especially true. Saves lots of TIME..but not a lot in weight. 

 Of course, in a production setting time reduction is a major part of the path to profits. Big difference in mission of the projects. Our project out in our shop is not demanding a profit margin for the stockholders.  I personally have no problems with anyone using all the up to date techniques if one wishes to do so..if the structure is good..no problem. God knows we have (and STILL have) plenty of failures in mass production in parts...even with the most fancy dancy methods and toys money can buy!.   Not me.. I'm not looking to save 10 pounds over all and spend oodles of time and greenbacks to get them. I had to do that as a job over 30 years..chasing time and methods all over the place for a few pounds or minutes saving.  

 I'm interested in adding safety and access using the existing methods and structure as much as possible.

Vern       


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 7:56 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
 
From memory the Cozy girls said “you won’t save any weight with their vacuum bagging.  It just made smooth uniform pieces that didn’t need much filler”.  That’s from about 10+ years ago so I can’t “etch that in stone”.
Bruce 


On Mar 23, 2021, at 7:01 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:


 Vern at one time owned Cozy plans set #43... and my plan back then was to build a 13B rotary which was pretty innovative in 1982..I had the engine all ready.. lots of Racing Beat ideas and parts. 

 My fellow Starship R&D techs used to razz me about which fuel I was going to use.. maybe Saki? Dave Blanton jr was also on the Starship Department 45 team and his Dad had a company building reduction drives for V6 Fords. He had a 172 with one under cowling in Augusta Kansas. That was the drive I intended to mate to the Rotary. The drive never did pan out well..lots of bad noises as I learned.    
  
 I never met the Cozy girls but did read some of the blog in the past. It warms my heart that the aircraft did get built and that engine does indeed perform well. 

I also searched today as Jay did.. didn't find the vacuum lite either, but it is interesting to learn process differences.

 Me wonders if they can send a link to our list group if it still exists?    


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 3:21 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
 
I looked there too, Bruce, but I could not find their videos on vacuum bagging. Maybe they took them down.  I remember them using a fish tank pump for vacuum.

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 1:25 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam

Hey Sammy Hoskins had the Cozy Girls show us some light vacuum bagging at one of our Field Of Dreams events in Illinois.  It was very interesting and may be what you’re looking for.   www.cozygirrrl.com
Bruce Crain
> On Mar 23, 2021, at 12:10 PM, Rob de Bie <robdebie@...> wrote:
> Eugen, I would be careful with vacuum bagging your parts. You're making quite a big change from the original building methods. The foam is not meant for full vacuum. And possibly it will absorb more resin due to the vacuum. I've done lots of vacuum injection, and the resin that goes into the foam cancels out all weight gains.
>
> I fully understand your desire to build quality parts, but this might not work out so well. Maybe a light vacuum (if that exists :-) is a better way, say -0.1 or -0.2 bar.
>
> Rob
>
>> On 23 Mar 2021 13:30, Eugen Pilarski wrote:
>> Dear Q-community,
>> the bulkheads of the Q1 are already cut and the worktable for vacuum-wrap is ready to go. After I study again the Quickie wokshop manual on page 3-11 in Step 7: Squeegeeing .......... If you’ve done an excellent job, the weight of resin will be about 2/3 of the weight of cloth used. ........
>> So we use glass with a weight of 296g/m2 and based on the number of Step 7 in Quickie built manual show up, that the requested resin will be 200g/m2 ( 2/3 of 300g/m is 200g). Is that correct?
>> But the laminate calculator of R&G get me out 243 g/m2 and is 20%
>> more that Rutan numbers indicate, please find the link below: R&G
>> laminate calculator <https://www.r-g.de/en/laminatecalculator.html>
>> Framework:
>> Fibre type: glass fibre - 2.6 g/cm3
>> Areal weight: 296g/m2
>> Fibre volume fraction: Hand-lay-up 35% Number of layers: 1 Laminate
>> thickness: 1mm
>> Width: 1000 mm
>> Lenkt: 1000 mm
>> Resin type: Epoxy Resin  - 1.15 g/cm3 print
>>      Result:
>> Number of layers    1 Layers
>> Laminate thickness    0.33 mm
>> Fibre reinforcement surface area    1.00 m²
>> Fibre reinforcement gross weight    296 g
>> Resin quantity    243 g
>> Laminate weight    539 g
>> Fibre content (weight)    54.9 %
>> Fibre content (volume)    35.0 %
>> Did you guys fixed a resin volume per square meter during your building process as maximum or just the wet as should and dry as possible rule?
>> I ask to understood how may resin should be placed on the foam to reach the material strength and stay in low weight at all parts that need to produce. So sounds like the old story......
>> Best regards
>> Eugen
>
>
>

____________________________________________________________
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http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/605a407a93e540792c83st02duc2
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http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/605a407a2c86340792c83st02duc3















Eugen Pilarski
 

Dear Q-community, 

wow, thank you very much for your notes, hints and the very valuable information. For anyone that build in his own walls is very important to get a different point of view! Thank Q-Groupe.

So the bag is open and the bulkhead FS89 part looks in my point of view, very good. Please find below some picture about the part, at the end of that email.  The ratio from resin to glas is around 50%, so the proposal from Rob looks good for that part, based on the fact that it goes 46g to the part and 35g in the Compoflex (Ply) and somewhere. The vacuum level was hold all time long around 850 hpa ( around 1500 kg/m2 or 3306 lbs/m2) served my pump station. Please find below the source I catch up all information about the pump station  https://www.joewoodworker.com/veneering/welcome.htm

The numbers FS89 top and down:

determine description weight   weight %
weighted Foam  82 g 0,185 lbs 48%
weighted Glass 44 g 0,099 lbs 20%
weighted Foam+1st layer + Resin 172 g 0,387 lbs 100% ratio Resin to glass
calculated Resin 46 g 0,104 lbs 27% 51%
 
I think that I will go further with vacuum bags so far not any big issue come up during that process. Especially for the fuselage and the other parts that will work with vacuum bag so far. It is a pity that there is no more detailed information on the individual component weights from other Q1 projects from the past

Well, the point of the whole weight issue is I need to go with the Q1 lower than 120kg (264,5lbs) all In, because the German ultralight rules don not allowed more. And for sure, I will get my ass in better condition if the bird will start at first time, not yet, but in due corse :-) 

Of course, the finishing is a very important step like Sam show up in his video at youtube (Micro - sand - micro  - sand - done). 

Best regards from Germany 

Eugen 

Am 24.03.2021 um 18:53 schrieb Robert Cringely <bob@...>:

Ideally you want 50 percent glass and 50 percent resin by weight, which is what you generally get with pre-preg. But, as another poster noted, there can be a dry lay-up problem if you push too hard in that direction, hence that original guidance about aiming for 60 percent resin, which is pretty okay and better than most. But there's another problem to be considered with Rutan construction, which is whatever weight you save in the lay-up you are likely to lose in the finishing. It amazes me to see builders who fight for that last ounce of resin then slather Bondo on the final surface for finishing. Yes, most of the Bondo is sanded off and yes, you can use micro instead of Bondo, but it still makes good sense to take a holistic approach to composite work. Your vacuum bagging sounds great, but keep the finish line in mind.

I'll always remember the wisdom of Dragonfly designer Bob Walters, writing in Sport Aviation. Bob maintained that humans can tolerate only so much sanding and paint prep, so if you spend too much time on the prep you can't help yourself but rush to finish the painting. He thought the psychological sanding limit was 250 hours. So if you obsess too much with the early stuff, you'll rush too much at the end and the plane will show it. Wise man.

On Wed, Mar 24, 2021 at 10:18 AM <smeshno1@...> wrote:
 Yes.. and with caul sheet and/or tooling surfaces this is especially true. Saves lots of TIME..but not a lot in weight. 

 Of course, in a production setting time reduction is a major part of the path to profits. Big difference in mission of the projects. Our project out in our shop is not demanding a profit margin for the stockholders.  I personally have no problems with anyone using all the up to date techniques if one wishes to do so..if the structure is good..no problem. God knows we have (and STILL have) plenty of failures in mass production in parts...even with the most fancy dancy methods and toys money can buy!.   Not me.. I'm not looking to save 10 pounds over all and spend oodles of time and greenbacks to get them. I had to do that as a job over 30 years..chasing time and methods all over the place for a few pounds or minutes saving.  

 I'm interested in adding safety and access using the existing methods and structure as much as possible.

Vern       


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 7:56 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
 
From memory the Cozy girls said “you won’t save any weight with their vacuum bagging.  It just made smooth uniform pieces that didn’t need much filler”.  That’s from about 10+ years ago so I can’t “etch that in stone”.
Bruce 


On Mar 23, 2021, at 7:01 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:


 Vern at one time owned Cozy plans set #43... and my plan back then was to build a 13B rotary which was pretty innovative in 1982..I had the engine all ready.. lots of Racing Beat ideas and parts. 

 My fellow Starship R&D techs used to razz me about which fuel I was going to use.. maybe Saki? Dave Blanton jr was also on the Starship Department 45 team and his Dad had a company building reduction drives for V6 Fords. He had a 172 with one under cowling in Augusta Kansas. That was the drive I intended to mate to the Rotary. The drive never did pan out well..lots of bad noises as I learned.    
  
 I never met the Cozy girls but did read some of the blog in the past. It warms my heart that the aircraft did get built and that engine does indeed perform well. 

I also searched today as Jay did.. didn't find the vacuum lite either, but it is interesting to learn process differences.

 Me wonders if they can send a link to our list group if it still exists?    


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 3:21 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
 
I looked there too, Bruce, but I could not find their videos on vacuum bagging. Maybe they took them down.  I remember them using a fish tank pump for vacuum.

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 1:25 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam

Hey Sammy Hoskins had the Cozy Girls show us some light vacuum bagging at one of our Field Of Dreams events in Illinois.  It was very interesting and may be what you’re looking for.   www.cozygirrrl.com
Bruce Crain
> On Mar 23, 2021, at 12:10 PM, Rob de Bie <robdebie@...> wrote:
> Eugen, I would be careful with vacuum bagging your parts. You're making quite a big change from the original building methods. The foam is not meant for full vacuum. And possibly it will absorb more resin due to the vacuum. I've done lots of vacuum injection, and the resin that goes into the foam cancels out all weight gains.
>
> I fully understand your desire to build quality parts, but this might not work out so well. Maybe a light vacuum (if that exists :-) is a better way, say -0.1 or -0.2 bar.
>
> Rob
>
>> On 23 Mar 2021 13:30, Eugen Pilarski wrote:
>> Dear Q-community,
>> the bulkheads of the Q1 are already cut and the worktable for vacuum-wrap is ready to go. After I study again the Quickie wokshop manual on page 3-11 in Step 7: Squeegeeing .......... If you’ve done an excellent job, the weight of resin will be about 2/3 of the weight of cloth used. ........
>> So we use glass with a weight of 296g/m2 and based on the number of Step 7 in Quickie built manual show up, that the requested resin will be 200g/m2 ( 2/3 of 300g/m is 200g). Is that correct?
>> But the laminate calculator of R&G get me out 243 g/m2 and is 20%
>> more that Rutan numbers indicate, please find the link below: R&G
>> laminate calculator <https://www.r-g.de/en/laminatecalculator.html>
>> Framework:
>> Fibre type: glass fibre - 2.6 g/cm3
>> Areal weight: 296g/m2
>> Fibre volume fraction: Hand-lay-up 35% Number of layers: 1 Laminate
>> thickness: 1mm
>> Width: 1000 mm
>> Lenkt: 1000 mm
>> Resin type: Epoxy Resin  - 1.15 g/cm3 print
>>      Result:
>> Number of layers    1 Layers
>> Laminate thickness    0.33 mm
>> Fibre reinforcement surface area    1.00 m²
>> Fibre reinforcement gross weight    296 g
>> Resin quantity    243 g
>> Laminate weight    539 g
>> Fibre content (weight)    54.9 %
>> Fibre content (volume)    35.0 %
>> Did you guys fixed a resin volume per square meter during your building process as maximum or just the wet as should and dry as possible rule?
>> I ask to understood how may resin should be placed on the foam to reach the material strength and stay in low weight at all parts that need to produce. So sounds like the old story......
>> Best regards
>> Eugen
>
>
>

____________________________________________________________
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Soldiers Held at Gunpoint While Moving Vaccines
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/605a407a93e540792c83st02duc2
Senator on Biden's $3T Plan: 'We Need to Get It Done'
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/605a407a2c86340792c83st02duc3

















smeshno1@...
 

 Which part of my heritage Nation do you live, Eugen?

 I have been to Germany several times. I understand your
goals and why it is important. If you can, might be savings in
the cowling using Kelar 49. You will also better meet the
sound restrictions if you can use this. What plan for powerplant
in your aircraft?  

Vern Lehman


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Eugen Pilarski <interbus@...>
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2021 3:32 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
 
Dear Q-community, 

wow, thank you very much for your notes, hints and the very valuable information. For anyone that build in his own walls is very important to get a different point of view! Thank Q-Groupe.

So the bag is open and the bulkhead FS89 part looks in my point of view, very good. Please find below some picture about the part, at the end of that email.  The ratio from resin to glas is around 50%, so the proposal from Rob looks good for that part, based on the fact that it goes 46g to the part and 35g in the Compoflex (Ply) and somewhere. The vacuum level was hold all time long around 850 hpa ( around 1500 kg/m2 or 3306 lbs/m2) served my pump station. Please find below the source I catch up all information about the pump station  https://www.joewoodworker.com/veneering/welcome.htm

The numbers FS89 top and down:

determine description weight   weight %
weighted Foam  82 g 0,185 lbs 48%
weighted Glass 44 g 0,099 lbs 20%
weighted Foam+1st layer + Resin 172 g 0,387 lbs 100% ratio Resin to glass
calculated Resin 46 g 0,104 lbs 27% 51%
 
I think that I will go further with vacuum bags so far not any big issue come up during that process. Especially for the fuselage and the other parts that will work with vacuum bag so far. It is a pity that there is no more detailed information on the individual component weights from other Q1 projects from the past

Well, the point of the whole weight issue is I need to go with the Q1 lower than 120kg (264,5lbs) all In, because the German ultralight rules don not allowed more. And for sure, I will get my ass in better condition if the bird will start at first time, not yet, but in due corse :-) 

Of course, the finishing is a very important step like Sam show up in his video at youtube (Micro - sand - micro  - sand - done). 

Best regards from Germany 

Eugen 

Am 24.03.2021 um 18:53 schrieb Robert Cringely <bob@...>:

Ideally you want 50 percent glass and 50 percent resin by weight, which is what you generally get with pre-preg. But, as another poster noted, there can be a dry lay-up problem if you push too hard in that direction, hence that original guidance about aiming for 60 percent resin, which is pretty okay and better than most. But there's another problem to be considered with Rutan construction, which is whatever weight you save in the lay-up you are likely to lose in the finishing. It amazes me to see builders who fight for that last ounce of resin then slather Bondo on the final surface for finishing. Yes, most of the Bondo is sanded off and yes, you can use micro instead of Bondo, but it still makes good sense to take a holistic approach to composite work. Your vacuum bagging sounds great, but keep the finish line in mind.

I'll always remember the wisdom of Dragonfly designer Bob Walters, writing in Sport Aviation. Bob maintained that humans can tolerate only so much sanding and paint prep, so if you spend too much time on the prep you can't help yourself but rush to finish the painting. He thought the psychological sanding limit was 250 hours. So if you obsess too much with the early stuff, you'll rush too much at the end and the plane will show it. Wise man.

On Wed, Mar 24, 2021 at 10:18 AM <smeshno1@...> wrote:
 Yes.. and with caul sheet and/or tooling surfaces this is especially true. Saves lots of TIME..but not a lot in weight. 

 Of course, in a production setting time reduction is a major part of the path to profits. Big difference in mission of the projects. Our project out in our shop is not demanding a profit margin for the stockholders.  I personally have no problems with anyone using all the up to date techniques if one wishes to do so..if the structure is good..no problem. God knows we have (and STILL have) plenty of failures in mass production in parts...even with the most fancy dancy methods and toys money can buy!.   Not me.. I'm not looking to save 10 pounds over all and spend oodles of time and greenbacks to get them. I had to do that as a job over 30 years..chasing time and methods all over the place for a few pounds or minutes saving.  

 I'm interested in adding safety and access using the existing methods and structure as much as possible.

Vern       


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 7:56 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
 
From memory the Cozy girls said “you won’t save any weight with their vacuum bagging.  It just made smooth uniform pieces that didn’t need much filler”.  That’s from about 10+ years ago so I can’t “etch that in stone”.
Bruce 


On Mar 23, 2021, at 7:01 PM, smeshno1@... wrote:


 Vern at one time owned Cozy plans set #43... and my plan back then was to build a 13B rotary which was pretty innovative in 1982..I had the engine all ready.. lots of Racing Beat ideas and parts. 

 My fellow Starship R&D techs used to razz me about which fuel I was going to use.. maybe Saki? Dave Blanton jr was also on the Starship Department 45 team and his Dad had a company building reduction drives for V6 Fords. He had a 172 with one under cowling in Augusta Kansas. That was the drive I intended to mate to the Rotary. The drive never did pan out well..lots of bad noises as I learned.    
  
 I never met the Cozy girls but did read some of the blog in the past. It warms my heart that the aircraft did get built and that engine does indeed perform well. 

I also searched today as Jay did.. didn't find the vacuum lite either, but it is interesting to learn process differences.

 Me wonders if they can send a link to our list group if it still exists?    


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 3:21 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam
 
I looked there too, Bruce, but I could not find their videos on vacuum bagging. Maybe they took them down.  I remember them using a fish tank pump for vacuum.

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 1:25 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Resin volume placed on foam

Hey Sammy Hoskins had the Cozy Girls show us some light vacuum bagging at one of our Field Of Dreams events in Illinois.  It was very interesting and may be what you’re looking for.   www.cozygirrrl.com
Bruce Crain
> On Mar 23, 2021, at 12:10 PM, Rob de Bie <robdebie@...> wrote:
> Eugen, I would be careful with vacuum bagging your parts. You're making quite a big change from the original building methods. The foam is not meant for full vacuum. And possibly it will absorb more resin due to the vacuum. I've done lots of vacuum injection, and the resin that goes into the foam cancels out all weight gains.
>
> I fully understand your desire to build quality parts, but this might not work out so well. Maybe a light vacuum (if that exists :-) is a better way, say -0.1 or -0.2 bar.
>
> Rob
>
>> On 23 Mar 2021 13:30, Eugen Pilarski wrote:
>> Dear Q-community,
>> the bulkheads of the Q1 are already cut and the worktable for vacuum-wrap is ready to go. After I study again the Quickie wokshop manual on page 3-11 in Step 7: Squeegeeing .......... If you’ve done an excellent job, the weight of resin will be about 2/3 of the weight of cloth used. ........
>> So we use glass with a weight of 296g/m2 and based on the number of Step 7 in Quickie built manual show up, that the requested resin will be 200g/m2 ( 2/3 of 300g/m is 200g). Is that correct?
>> But the laminate calculator of R&G get me out 243 g/m2 and is 20%
>> more that Rutan numbers indicate, please find the link below: R&G
>> laminate calculator <https://www.r-g.de/en/laminatecalculator.html>
>> Framework:
>> Fibre type: glass fibre - 2.6 g/cm3
>> Areal weight: 296g/m2
>> Fibre volume fraction: Hand-lay-up 35% Number of layers: 1 Laminate
>> thickness: 1mm
>> Width: 1000 mm
>> Lenkt: 1000 mm
>> Resin type: Epoxy Resin  - 1.15 g/cm3 print
>>      Result:
>> Number of layers    1 Layers
>> Laminate thickness    0.33 mm
>> Fibre reinforcement surface area    1.00 m²
>> Fibre reinforcement gross weight    296 g
>> Resin quantity    243 g
>> Laminate weight    539 g
>> Fibre content (weight)    54.9 %
>> Fibre content (volume)    35.0 %
>> Did you guys fixed a resin volume per square meter during your building process as maximum or just the wet as should and dry as possible rule?
>> I ask to understood how may resin should be placed on the foam to reach the material strength and stay in low weight at all parts that need to produce. So sounds like the old story......
>> Best regards
>> Eugen
>
>
>

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Eugen Pilarski
 

Vern,
we stay in Wuerzburg area in Bavaria between Nuernberg and Frankfurt. 

In which area of the cowling you mean to replace it with Kevelar 49? Any picture or small sketches available?

For the Q1 I choice a B&S Vanguard 679cc comes in standard performance with 23hp and additional some modifications I will placed like, High compression cast pistons, Billet rods with racing spec. bolts, Timing advanced 8°, Longer duration camshaft to shift the power band upwards, Upgraded valve gear to give more valve lift, stronger parts and prevent valve bounce, free flow filter and adapter ‘High altitude’ jet kit, Tuned length exhaust pipes, although simpler one may work well too. The requested parts will come from the US because they are some very proficient companies to support that engine.

 

So far the next parts are in the bag, it´s the Bulkhead 153.7 and AFT Canopy Bulkhead. But in that case I turn the top to bottom, because the vacuum causes the glass fibre to wrap around the corner of the prey part and thus the end faces are also glued together, which then has to be removed with a cutter.

Best regards

Eugen