#### W and B

Theo Scheepers

Thanks for the information that sounds promising
Will keep you posted
Theo

On 03 Aug 2021, at 22:21, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

﻿Hi Theo,

I suspect that when you measure the actual FS of the pilot, you will find it is aft of the 56.6 shown in the POH. Most people I know have their pilot position aft of this. This will make you in the forward limit of CG, but still in limits. Much better to be on the forward end of the limit than on the aft end. In any case, keep us posted.

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Theo Scheepers
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2021 12:57 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] W and B

Hi Jay
Yes she is quite light and I recon it’s due to the weight of the Rotax ( 80hp) and just basic vfr flight instrumentation I now need to do proper configuration W&B .
According to the Q2 POH - at my 190 lb the moment on the graph is 10750 in-lb and results for a station 56,579 in This results in a cfg at 44,47 in So 33051 in-lb moment at 743,21 lb puts me right on the front end of the graph and my concern is that if I fill the header tank it will push the aircraft outside of forward CFG limit !!
Thanks for your assistance,I’ll post my final W&B once completed 😀👍
It’s quite interesting that if I use the Q200 W&B graphs then the aircraft is well with in its CFG range Regards Theo
On 03 Aug 2021, at 16:13, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

﻿Hi Theo,

It looks like you are showing empty weight numbers. If that is the case, then your empty CG is at 40.31. If I assume the pilot FS to be at FS 60 (you need to measure this by sitting in the airplane), then your empty-fuel, pilot-only CG would be 45.35. That should be in the middle of the envelope. The FS 40.31 empty aircraft arm is just about where you want it. Make sure you measure the main tank, header tank, pilot/passenger, and baggage area, individually. If your numbers you posted are empty weight numbers, then at 553.21 pounds, you have one of the lightest Q2's on the planet! With your rotax at ~100 HP, it should get off quickly and fly fast! Good work on that! Keep us posted.

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Theo
Scheepers
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2021 2:03 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] W and B

﻿Hi Gentlemen I hope someone can recommend and check my W&B I’ve
installed a Rotax 912 UL . I’ve got the old GU canard It seems to me
that if I’m using the LS1 Envelope that I’m just inside the Envelope
(forward end ) but if I use the GU Envelope I’m forward outside of the
Envelope Here’s my weights and arms

Left. 275,21 lb. arm. 39,5”
Right 275,37 lb. arm. 39,5”
Tail. 2,63 lb. arm. 210,4”
My weight is 190 lb.

This includes everything ( upholstery,instruments,fire extinguisher
and battery (at station 82) )) Regards Theo Sent from my iPhone

On 19 Jul 2021, at 22:20, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:
﻿Removing the passenger or adding the passenger (depending on how you look at it) is the only difference between the last two loading scenarios.
According to my calculations and using 163.4 pounds for the passenger, gives my a FS for the pass/pilot of 61.92" Of course if you are taller, more of the leg weight is farther forward, so the it does vary from passenger to passenger. Since I don’t have independent weights for the gas in each tank. I cannot compute the FS of the two tanks. You will need that for your certification papers.

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Chris Walterson
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 1:07 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] W and B

Jay and Rich. I think one other variable is the scales I am using.
They are certified , but meant to weigh 6,000 lb Otters and they read
at
5 lb increments. For the tail wheel, I used a digital bathroom scale, that I calibrated with myself holding various known weights.

Thanks for the input, my "passenger/ daughter" will be pleased with
the news, she lost weight.----------- Chris

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Theo Scheepers

Hi Chris
My initial calculations indicated that I have to mount my Rotax 4,75 in forward of the firewall station 14
That calculation was spot on but then I added a 4 inch prop extension and did not have it in my initial calculations
I’m sure that flying dual the cfg will be fine and solo I will need to fly with some ballast weight in the baggage section
Final configuration W&B will reveal what needed to be done
Regards
Theo

On 03 Aug 2021, at 23:14, Chris Walterson <dkeats@...> wrote:

﻿ Theo--------- I notice in the Q2 manual with the GU canard , the sample W&B show 2 lbs on the tail wheel. I have the LS canard and am chunky [750]. I did the W&B with light pilot , no fuel.---Two heavy people, no fuel--- Light pilot header only---- Light pilot header and main full, and then two heavy pilots , full fuel and bagage up too 1250 LBS. After all said and done, I need 14.2 lbs on my tail wheel, at level attitude and empty. I notice most of the Q200 have close to the same.

Take care---------- Chris

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Chris Walterson

Theo---------  I notice in the Q2 manual with the GU canard , the sample W&B show 2 lbs on the tail wheel.  I  have the LS canard and am chunky  [750].  I did the W&B with light pilot , no fuel.---Two heavy people, no fuel--- Light pilot header only---- Light pilot header and main full, and then two heavy pilots , full fuel and bagage up too 1250 LBS. After all said and done, I need 14.2 lbs on my tail wheel, at level attitude and empty. I notice most of the Q200 have close to the same.

Take care----------  Chris

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Jay Scheevel

Hi Theo,

I suspect that when you measure the actual FS of the pilot, you will find it is aft of the 56.6 shown in the POH. Most people I know have their pilot position aft of this. This will make you in the forward limit of CG, but still in limits. Much better to be on the forward end of the limit than on the aft end. In any case, keep us posted.

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Theo Scheepers
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2021 12:57 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] W and B

Hi Jay
Yes she is quite light and I recon it’s due to the weight of the Rotax ( 80hp) and just basic vfr flight instrumentation I now need to do proper configuration W&B .
According to the Q2 POH - at my 190 lb the moment on the graph is 10750 in-lb and results for a station 56,579 in This results in a cfg at 44,47 in So 33051 in-lb moment at 743,21 lb puts me right on the front end of the graph and my concern is that if I fill the header tank it will push the aircraft outside of forward CFG limit !!
Thanks for your assistance,I’ll post my final W&B once completed 😀👍
It’s quite interesting that if I use the Q200 W&B graphs then the aircraft is well with in its CFG range Regards Theo
On 03 Aug 2021, at 16:13, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

﻿Hi Theo,

It looks like you are showing empty weight numbers. If that is the case, then your empty CG is at 40.31. If I assume the pilot FS to be at FS 60 (you need to measure this by sitting in the airplane), then your empty-fuel, pilot-only CG would be 45.35. That should be in the middle of the envelope. The FS 40.31 empty aircraft arm is just about where you want it. Make sure you measure the main tank, header tank, pilot/passenger, and baggage area, individually. If your numbers you posted are empty weight numbers, then at 553.21 pounds, you have one of the lightest Q2's on the planet! With your rotax at ~100 HP, it should get off quickly and fly fast! Good work on that! Keep us posted.

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Theo
Scheepers
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2021 2:03 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] W and B

﻿Hi Gentlemen I hope someone can recommend and check my W&B I’ve
installed a Rotax 912 UL . I’ve got the old GU canard It seems to me
that if I’m using the LS1 Envelope that I’m just inside the Envelope
(forward end ) but if I use the GU Envelope I’m forward outside of the
Envelope Here’s my weights and arms

Left. 275,21 lb. arm. 39,5”
Right 275,37 lb. arm. 39,5”
Tail. 2,63 lb. arm. 210,4”
My weight is 190 lb.

This includes everything ( upholstery,instruments,fire extinguisher
and battery (at station 82) )) Regards Theo Sent from my iPhone

On 19 Jul 2021, at 22:20, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

﻿Removing the passenger or adding the passenger (depending on how you look at it) is the only difference between the last two loading scenarios.
According to my calculations and using 163.4 pounds for the passenger, gives my a FS for the pass/pilot of 61.92" Of course if you are taller, more of the leg weight is farther forward, so the it does vary from passenger to passenger. Since I don’t have independent weights for the gas in each tank. I cannot compute the FS of the two tanks. You will need that for your certification papers.

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Chris Walterson
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 1:07 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] W and B

Jay and Rich. I think one other variable is the scales I am using.
They are certified , but meant to weigh 6,000 lb Otters and they read
at
5 lb increments. For the tail wheel, I used a digital bathroom scale, that I calibrated with myself holding various known weights.

Thanks for the input, my "passenger/ daughter" will be pleased with
the news, she lost weight.----------- Chris

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Theo Scheepers

Hi Jay
Yes she is quite light and I recon it’s due to the weight of the Rotax ( 80hp) and just basic vfr flight instrumentation
I now need to do proper configuration W&B .
According to the Q2 POH - at my 190 lb the moment on the graph is 10750 in-lb and results for a station 56,579 in This results in a cfg at 44,47 in
So 33051 in-lb moment at 743,21 lb puts me right on the front end of the graph and my concern is that if I fill the header tank it will push the aircraft outside of forward CFG limit !!
Thanks for your assistance,I’ll post my final W&B once completed 😀👍
It’s quite interesting that if I use the Q200 W&B graphs then the aircraft is well with in its CFG range
Regards
Theo

On 03 Aug 2021, at 16:13, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

﻿Hi Theo,

It looks like you are showing empty weight numbers. If that is the case, then your empty CG is at 40.31. If I assume the pilot FS to be at FS 60 (you need to measure this by sitting in the airplane), then your empty-fuel, pilot-only CG would be 45.35. That should be in the middle of the envelope. The FS 40.31 empty aircraft arm is just about where you want it. Make sure you measure the main tank, header tank, pilot/passenger, and baggage area, individually. If your numbers you posted are empty weight numbers, then at 553.21 pounds, you have one of the lightest Q2's on the planet! With your rotax at ~100 HP, it should get off quickly and fly fast! Good work on that! Keep us posted.

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Theo Scheepers
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2021 2:03 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] W and B

﻿Hi Gentlemen I hope someone can recommend and check my W&B I’ve installed a Rotax 912 UL . I’ve got the old GU canard It seems to me that if I’m using the LS1 Envelope that I’m just inside the Envelope (forward end ) but if I use the GU Envelope I’m forward outside of the Envelope Here’s my weights and arms

Left. 275,21 lb. arm. 39,5”
Right 275,37 lb. arm. 39,5”
Tail. 2,63 lb. arm. 210,4”
My weight is 190 lb.

This includes everything ( upholstery,instruments,fire extinguisher and battery (at station 82) )) Regards Theo Sent from my iPhone

On 19 Jul 2021, at 22:20, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

﻿Removing the passenger or adding the passenger (depending on how you look at it) is the only difference between the last two loading scenarios.
According to my calculations and using 163.4 pounds for the passenger, gives my a FS for the pass/pilot of 61.92" Of course if you are taller, more of the leg weight is farther forward, so the it does vary from passenger to passenger. Since I don’t have independent weights for the gas in each tank. I cannot compute the FS of the two tanks. You will need that for your certification papers.

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris
Walterson
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 1:07 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] W and B

Jay and Rich. I think one other variable is the scales I am using.
They are certified , but meant to weigh 6,000 lb Otters and they read
at
5 lb increments. For the tail wheel, I used a digital bathroom scale, that I calibrated with myself holding various known weights.

Thanks for the input, my "passenger/ daughter" will be pleased with
the news, she lost weight.----------- Chris

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Jay Scheevel

Hi Theo,

It looks like you are showing empty weight numbers. If that is the case, then your empty CG is at 40.31. If I assume the pilot FS to be at FS 60 (you need to measure this by sitting in the airplane), then your empty-fuel, pilot-only CG would be 45.35. That should be in the middle of the envelope. The FS 40.31 empty aircraft arm is just about where you want it. Make sure you measure the main tank, header tank, pilot/passenger, and baggage area, individually. If your numbers you posted are empty weight numbers, then at 553.21 pounds, you have one of the lightest Q2's on the planet! With your rotax at ~100 HP, it should get off quickly and fly fast! Good work on that! Keep us posted.

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Theo Scheepers
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2021 2:03 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] W and B

﻿Hi Gentlemen I hope someone can recommend and check my W&B I’ve installed a Rotax 912 UL . I’ve got the old GU canard It seems to me that if I’m using the LS1 Envelope that I’m just inside the Envelope (forward end ) but if I use the GU Envelope I’m forward outside of the Envelope Here’s my weights and arms

Left. 275,21 lb. arm. 39,5”
Right 275,37 lb. arm. 39,5”
Tail. 2,63 lb. arm. 210,4”
My weight is 190 lb.

This includes everything ( upholstery,instruments,fire extinguisher and battery (at station 82) )) Regards Theo Sent from my iPhone

On 19 Jul 2021, at 22:20, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

﻿Removing the passenger or adding the passenger (depending on how you look at it) is the only difference between the last two loading scenarios.
According to my calculations and using 163.4 pounds for the passenger, gives my a FS for the pass/pilot of 61.92" Of course if you are taller, more of the leg weight is farther forward, so the it does vary from passenger to passenger. Since I don’t have independent weights for the gas in each tank. I cannot compute the FS of the two tanks. You will need that for your certification papers.

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris
Walterson
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 1:07 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] W and B

Jay and Rich. I think one other variable is the scales I am using.
They are certified , but meant to weigh 6,000 lb Otters and they read
at
5 lb increments. For the tail wheel, I used a digital bathroom scale, that I calibrated with myself holding various known weights.

Thanks for the input, my "passenger/ daughter" will be pleased with
the news, she lost weight.----------- Chris

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Theo Scheepers

﻿Hi Gentlemen I hope someone can recommend and check my W&B
I’ve installed a Rotax 912 UL . I’ve got the old GU canard
It seems to me that if I’m using the LS1 Envelope that I’m just inside the Envelope
(forward end ) but if I use the GU Envelope I’m forward outside of the Envelope
Here’s my weights and arms

Left. 275,21 lb. arm. 39,5”
Right 275,37 lb. arm. 39,5”
Tail. 2,63 lb. arm. 210,4”
My weight is 190 lb.

This includes everything ( upholstery,instruments,fire extinguisher and battery (at station 82) ))
Regards
Theo
Sent from my iPhone

On 19 Jul 2021, at 22:20, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

﻿Removing the passenger or adding the passenger (depending on how you look at it) is the only difference between the last two loading scenarios.
According to my calculations and using 163.4 pounds for the passenger, gives my a FS for the pass/pilot of 61.92" Of course if you are taller, more of the leg weight is farther forward, so the it does vary from passenger to passenger. Since I don’t have independent weights for the gas in each tank. I cannot compute the FS of the two tanks. You will need that for your certification papers.

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Walterson
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 1:07 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] W and B

Jay and Rich. I think one other variable is the scales I am using. They are certified , but meant to weigh 6,000 lb Otters and they read at
5 lb increments. For the tail wheel, I used a digital bathroom scale, that I calibrated with myself holding various known weights.

Thanks for the input, my "passenger/ daughter" will be pleased with the news, she lost weight.----------- Chris

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Jay Scheevel

Removing the passenger or adding the passenger (depending on how you look at it) is the only difference between the last two loading scenarios.
According to my calculations and using 163.4 pounds for the passenger, gives my a FS for the pass/pilot of 61.92" Of course if you are taller, more of the leg weight is farther forward, so the it does vary from passenger to passenger. Since I don’t have independent weights for the gas in each tank. I cannot compute the FS of the two tanks. You will need that for your certification papers.

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Walterson
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 1:07 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] W and B

Jay and Rich. I think one other variable is the scales I am using. They are certified , but meant to weigh 6,000 lb Otters and they read at
5 lb increments. For the tail wheel, I used a digital bathroom scale, that I calibrated with myself holding various known weights.

Thanks for the input, my "passenger/ daughter" will be pleased with the news, she lost weight.----------- Chris

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Chris Walterson

Jay and Rich.  I think one other variable is the scales I am using.   They are certified , but meant to weigh 6,000 lb Otters and they read at 5 lb increments.  For the tail wheel, I used a digital bathroom scale, that I calibrated with myself holding various known weights.

Thanks for the input, my "passenger/ daughter" will be pleased with the news, she lost weight.-----------  Chris

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Jay Scheevel

Chris,

Here is what I have for you CG's It appears that the passenger is actually 163.4. I will have to do some more cyphering to come up with your pilot/passenger FS.

 partial loading (pilot 160, full header, half main) L-MG 36 505 18180 R-MG 36 465 16740 TW 217 37.5 8137.5 A/C 42.74 1007.5 43057.5 partial loading (pilot 160, full header, full main) L-MG 36 525 18900 R-MG 36 490 17640 TW 217 40 8680 A/C 42.86 1055 45220 full loading (pilot 160, pass 180??, full fuel, full header) L-MG 36 580 20880 R-MG 36 575 20700 TW 217 63.4 13757.8 A/C 45.42 1218.4 55337.8

Cheers,

Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Thomson
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 8:07 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] W and B

Should you be using Full header for the lightweight calcs, That will make some difference to Fwd CG will it not ?

Rich T.

On 18/07/2021 17:20, Chris Walterson wrote:

>   Here you go Jay.

>  The station for my main wheels is  36 [22+14]

>  The station for the tail wheel is 217  [203+14]

>  Empty ---- left 365  right  370 tail 14.4

>  160 lb pilot and full header Pilot 160, Passenger 180, full header,

> full main

>   Left 485, right 450, tail 36.4 Left 580, right575, tail 63.4

>   160 lb pilot full header 1/2 main

>   Left 505, right 465, tail 37.8

> 160 lb pilot , full header, full main

> Left 525, right 490, tail 40

>  The weighing was done with certified scales and real fuel and real

> people. See what you come up with.. --  Chris

> \

Richard Thomson

Should you be using Full header for the lightweight calcs, That will make some difference to Fwd CG will it not ?

Rich T.

On 18/07/2021 17:20, Chris Walterson wrote:
Here you go Jay.

The station for my main wheels is  36 [22+14]

The station for the tail wheel is 217  [203+14]

Empty ---- left 365  right  370 tail 14.4

160 lb pilot and full header Pilot 160, Passenger 180, full header, full main

Left 485, right 450, tail 36.4 Left 580, right575, tail 63.4

160 lb pilot full header 1/2 main

Left 505, right 465, tail 37.8

160 lb pilot , full header, full main

Left 525, right 490, tail 40

The weighing was done with certified scales and real fuel and real people. See what you come up with.. --  Chris

\

Chris Walterson

My station for my mains and tail are different from the conventional. I have an inboard gear design and my tail spring is not the standard Q spring.  For my Dattum I am using  14 inches ahead of the firewall.

Don't be shy to critic. Combined knowledge is great.    Chris

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Chris Walterson

Here you go Jay.

The station for my main wheels is  36 [22+14]

The station for the tail wheel is 217  [203+14]

Empty ---- left 365  right  370 tail 14.4

160 lb pilot and full header Pilot 160, Passenger 180, full header, full main

Left 485, right 450, tail 36.4 Left 580, right575, tail 63.4

160 lb pilot full header 1/2 main

Left 505, right 465, tail 37.8

160 lb pilot , full header, full main

Left 525, right 490, tail 40

The weighing was done with certified scales and real fuel and real people. See what you come up with.. --  Chris

\

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Frankenbird Vern

The first half of the main tank fill was probably with "benzine lite" as my wife likes to call low octane. :-)
Being married to an overseas lady sometimes can be an adventure in communication, almost like ATC
when flying in Class B airspace!!

Chris.. do you have a MKI or MKII config canard?  Jay is correct..need to see what you are seeing.

Ya..umm..about that ballast topic. I'll make note in my build planning to avoid that oopsy so as to be sure
not to reduce my receiving home cooking options.

Vern
Mit dem FrankenVogel.

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2021 7:27 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] W and B

Hi Chris,

Something is still not right. If you add the pilot and 1/2 main tank, both are aft of the FS 42.78 mark. There is no way that the CG will move slightly forward to 42.7. Please post the numbers you measured and we can all noodle it. This needs more eyes I think, unless I am really missing something.

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Walterson
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2021 11:56 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] W and B

Finished the W&B today. I need an extra 15lbs on the tail due to the front end weight. With the 15 lbs the empty weight is 754.

With 160 lb pilot and full header it is at 971 lbs and  42.78

With 160 lb pilot and full header and 1/2 main it is at 1007.8 and 42.7

With 160 lb pilot and full header and main it is at 1055 and 42.86

With 160 lb pilot full header and main and 180 lb passenger it is at
1218.4 and 45.41

Going to compare to the flying airplanes that are in the files section.

By the way, don't refer to your wife and daughter as BALLAST.

Guess I am eating out tonight. Take care----------------  Chris

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Jay Scheevel

Hi Chris,

Something is still not right. If you add the pilot and 1/2 main tank, both are aft of the FS 42.78 mark. There is no way that the CG will move slightly forward to 42.7. Please post the numbers you measured and we can all noodle it. This needs more eyes I think, unless I am really missing something.

Cheers,
Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Walterson
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2021 11:56 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] W and B

Finished the W&B today. I need an extra 15lbs on the tail due to the front end weight. With the 15 lbs the empty weight is 754.

With 160 lb pilot and full header it is at 971 lbs and 42.78

With 160 lb pilot and full header and 1/2 main it is at 1007.8 and 42.7

With 160 lb pilot and full header and main it is at 1055 and 42.86

With 160 lb pilot full header and main and 180 lb passenger it is at
1218.4 and 45.41

Going to compare to the flying airplanes that are in the files section.

By the way, don't refer to your wife and daughter as BALLAST.

Guess I am eating out tonight. Take care---------------- Chris

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Mike Dwyer

I took a 275 lb passenger for a ride and found mild PIO conditions until I remembered to go down on the ailerons with the Reflexer.  Prior to this I'd never used down ailerons.  That made the plane return to normal.  I'm pretty sure I found the max rear CG limit.
Mike Dwyer

Q200 Website: http://goo.gl/V8IrJF

On Sat, Jul 17, 2021 at 4:46 PM Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:
Approach adding 15 lbs aft carefully.  One of our TriQ200 had 9 lbs added way back in the tail.  It made the Q almost uncontrollable with two in the cockpit as it wanted to PIO badly!
Bruce Crain
> On Jul 17, 2021, at 12:56 PM, Chris Walterson <dkeats@...> wrote:
>
> ﻿ Finished the W&B today. I need an extra 15lbs on the tail due to the front end weight. With the 15 lbs the empty weight is 754.
>
>  With 160 lb pilot and full header it is at 971 lbs and  42.78
>
>  With 160 lb pilot and full header and 1/2 main it is at 1007.8 and 42.7
>
> With 160 lb pilot and full header and main it is at 1055 and 42.86
>
>  With 160 lb pilot full header and main and 180 lb passenger it is at 1218.4 and 45.41
>
>  Going to compare to the flying airplanes that are in the files section.
>
>  By the way, don't refer to your wife and daughter as BALLAST.
>
>  Guess I am eating out tonight. Take care----------------  Chris
>
>
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Chris Walterson

Bruce----------  Sounds more like a W&B issue than just weight placement.

With my airplane sitting level, there is only 5 lbs on the tail wheel.  Most of the well flying airplanes have around 18

lbs on the tail.  Whether I add a thirty pound battery in the back, or add 13 lbs in the tail, it still gets 18 lbs on the tail wheel and with the latter I save extra weight.

Test time will tell. Thanks for the input--------------  Chris

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Bruce Crain

Approach adding 15 lbs aft carefully. One of our TriQ200 had 9 lbs added way back in the tail. It made the Q almost uncontrollable with two in the cockpit as it wanted to PIO badly!
Bruce Crain
On Jul 17, 2021, at 12:56 PM, Chris Walterson <dkeats@...> wrote:

﻿ Finished the W&B today. I need an extra 15lbs on the tail due to the front end weight. With the 15 lbs the empty weight is 754.

With 160 lb pilot and full header it is at 971 lbs and 42.78

With 160 lb pilot and full header and 1/2 main it is at 1007.8 and 42.7

With 160 lb pilot and full header and main it is at 1055 and 42.86

With 160 lb pilot full header and main and 180 lb passenger it is at 1218.4 and 45.41

Going to compare to the flying airplanes that are in the files section.

By the way, don't refer to your wife and daughter as BALLAST.

Guess I am eating out tonight. Take care---------------- Chris

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Chris Walterson

Finished the W&B today. I need an extra 15lbs on the tail due to the front end weight. With the 15 lbs the empty weight is 754.

With 160 lb pilot and full header it is at 971 lbs and  42.78

With 160 lb pilot and full header and 1/2 main it is at 1007.8 and 42.7

With 160 lb pilot and full header and main it is at 1055 and 42.86

With 160 lb pilot full header and main and 180 lb passenger it is at 1218.4 and 45.41

Going to compare to the flying airplanes that are in the files section.

By the way, don't refer to your wife and daughter as BALLAST.

Guess I am eating out tonight. Take care----------------  Chris

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Jay Scheevel

Chris,

Let me know if you want me to calculate your decalage from photos. Decalage will definitely impact how your airplane will fly at different CG loadings. If you want me to do that, please contact me offline and I can get you set up for that. I have done the same thing for a number of people on this list. If you need a refresher on decalage and/or Q200 aerodynamics. You can look at the following:

Q200-Tri-Q200 Aerodynamic Study

Part 1

Part 2

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2021 6:51 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] W and B

One of our TriQ 200s had a 9 lb weight way back in the tail.  When flown with two people it had and almost uncontrollable PIO!  The 9 lb weight was removed and the battery was moved forward to just behind the seat back. It flew just fine after that.  Be sure you do calcs for full fuel loaded passengers and luggage to see if you are out of the envelope aft.

I moved the battery forward in my TriQ200 to the right just beside the passengers calf on the canard and have flown it for years.

Just saying do all the possible loaded configurations not just an empty calc.

Bruce

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "One Sky Dog via groups.io" <Oneskydog@...>
To: <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] W and B
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2021 13:18:03 +0000 (UTC)

Chris,

Can anything be relocated aft of present position? Every pound moved aft no matter where on the airframe makes a difference. Give everything a critical why does it have to be located there.

Just a thought before adding dead weight. With my Corvair/Dragonfly I had to locate the battery aft of the wing. It still was not enough so I went to a heavier battery. Odyssey 925 solved wt and bal plus carries more amp hrs. Duel function and it is not a Bob weight on a long arm that suffers inertial effects.

Regards,

Charlie

On Sunday, July 4, 2021, 7:28 PM, Chris Walterson <dkeats@...> wrote:

Jay-------  Thanks for the info. I think I may have been using 54.7

As I said before, I will do a real world weight and balance to make
sure it is correct.

Let me pass something by the guys. If I need  twenty or more lbs near
the back bulkhead to get the

proper tail wheel load, I was thinking, because I don't exactly have a Q
rudder and stab, why don't I load

closer to the tail wheel. I was thinking of removing  the rudder and
boring a 5/8 hole down the stab, full length.

My stab has a spar so I  can drill just forward of it. Fill the 5/8
steel pipe with lead , weight it and slide it down the hole with flox

and epoxi. I could also slide a pipe filled with lead inside the
rudder tube  itself and rivet/ glue it in place.

My rudder is mass balanced, but the lead is at the balance point so it
should not pose a problem.

I could also bend some 3/8 metal to fit inside the tail wheel mount for
maybe 1/2 lb more.

I think doing something like this i could reduce the actual weight
needed by half.

I realize pot is legal in Canada, but I didn't really use any, just
thinking in the abstract.

Any comments appreciated. Now to clean up the garage for next
Saturday. Hopefully a week is long enough.

Take care-----------------  Chris

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