New Member Introduction


Ian Ashdown
 

Hi,
Thank for approving my membership to the group.  This seems to be the most active forum for all things Q related, there certainly seems the be a great collection of talent and experience.

I have just purchased an almost completely un-built Q200 kit, that will probably be here in San Clemente, CA in 3 to 4 weeks.  I’m developing my plan for the build, I’ll post a more complete description of my thoughts and ideas in another post, but it definitely includes using a Rotax 912is engine.

I went to school in Aeronautical Engineering in London in the late ‘80’s in preparation for a career in Motorsports!  I spent most of my career as a design or development or race engineer in Formula One and IndyCar.  I finally had enough of the travel/politics etc and started an Aerospace composites manufacturing company in 2003.  We did work for SpaceX, General Atomics, Cessna, Boeing and many others.  Outside circumstances led me to close the company in 2017.  I was the composites director at a HyperCar company until Covid hit and they laid off half the company 🤨.  I now work for Virgin Orbit in Long Beach, although not directly with composites.

I think/hope I have the skills to do a good job of building this aircraft. My inclination will be to re-engineer many things, although I’m doing a pretty good job of talking myself out of the really serious stuff!  There are some things that will get a re-examination, there certainly are some things that need to be looked at again!

I look forward to sharing this journey with the forum, and hopefully leaning on the depth of experience that exists here.

More details to follow.

Ian


Anthony P
 

Holy Moley!  That's quite a resume.

Welcome to the list.

I'll be very interested in your toughs about the carbon spar.

My guess is that you're going to have to wear your new "home-builder" hat much more than your "aero-engineer" hat.  We'll see.
The design and fab techniques were made for a specific audience.

--
Q2 N86KL


Bill Allen
 

Hi Ian,

Sounds like you’ll do a great job if you can resist the temptation to re-engineer everything :^)

Out of interest, do you may know a pal of mine who had a parallel career to yours with Lotus, and TOMS GB, Glenn Waters?

Bill Allen


On Sun, 6 Feb 2022 at 19:56, Ian Ashdown <ian.ashdown@...> wrote:
Hi,
Thank for approving my membership to the group.  This seems to be the most active forum for all things Q related, there certainly seems the be a great collection of talent and experience.

I have just purchased an almost completely un-built Q200 kit, that will probably be here in San Clemente, CA in 3 to 4 weeks.  I’m developing my plan for the build, I’ll post a more complete description of my thoughts and ideas in another post, but it definitely includes using a Rotax 912is engine.

I went to school in Aeronautical Engineering in London in the late ‘80’s in preparation for a career in Motorsports!  I spent most of my career as a design or development or race engineer in Formula One and IndyCar.  I finally had enough of the travel/politics etc and started an Aerospace composites manufacturing company in 2003.  We did work for SpaceX, General Atomics, Cessna, Boeing and many others.  Outside circumstances led me to close the company in 2017.  I was the composites director at a HyperCar company until Covid hit and they laid off half the company 🤨.  I now work for Virgin Orbit in Long Beach, although not directly with composites.

I think/hope I have the skills to do a good job of building this aircraft. My inclination will be to re-engineer many things, although I’m doing a pretty good job of talking myself out of the really serious stuff!  There are some things that will get a re-examination, there certainly are some things that need to be looked at again!

I look forward to sharing this journey with the forum, and hopefully leaning on the depth of experience that exists here.

More details to follow.

Ian

--


Ian Ashdown
 

Hi Anthony,

I will preface my comments with, I haven’t received my kit yet so I’ve not had ‘eyes-on’ any parts yet.

I would say that the Carbon Spars are a reasonable solution for the builders/methods that the Rutan concept exemplifies.  Structurally probably less than optimal, but they seem to do the job.

I pucker a little bit at the concept of the central joint and I may make a CF center sleeve to reduce that sensation a little.  I’ve read the laminate schedule for the AUS spars and they seem OK, but I hear the OEM ones were possibly lacking in hoop strength (90 deg fiber), so I may add a ply to two of some suitable CF.  It’s not ideal with no chemical bond, but I’ll feel better!

I had thoughts to make molds and then make the skins in VARTM CF.  But in the certain knowledge that Burt Rutan knows WAY more than I’ll ever know about airplane design, I decided to make it more or less as designed.  I may change out all the E glass for S glass, add some strategic CF in a few places, look at modern resins, vac bag where possible etc.

There are some other thing I’m trying to work out while I’m waiting for the kit arrive.  I need to check the balance with the Rotax, I don’t need to gravity feed the fuel to the engine, so I’m thinking about making it an AUX tank to gravity feed the Main tank.  It also changes the weight balance.  I have to find homes for the various boxes the the Rotax requires, ECU, Fuse Box, FUEL Pumps etc.

Its fun doing some design, well re-design, engineering!

Ian


Ian Ashdown
 
Edited

I do know Glenn!  It’s been 35 years or so, but I was engineering the Reynard F3 when he was doing the Toms Toyota team.

Small world!

Ian


Bill Allen
 

How about that!

When Glenn sold out to Toyota, around 2000, he started building a Berkut, and bought the LongEz I built so he could get some stick time. 
I bought my LongEz back from him when he got the Berkut flying, and I flew it over to the US in 2005 where I now have it at my Hangar home in FL (FD51)
Glenn sadly lost his medical last year, so I ended up buying the Berkut from him, not because I needed another canard aircraft (I have 6) but because it was the most beautiful example of craftsmanship I’ve seen.
Glenn also built a turbine (Alison c20) Glassair G-ICBM which was done on a CAA Permit - only Glenn could have done that.

I’m sure your Q2 will be of similar quality.

Best,

Bill

On Sun, 6 Feb 2022 at 21:42, Ian Ashdown <ian.ashdown@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

I do know Glenn!  It’s been 35 years or so, but I was engineering the Reynard F3 when he was doing the Toms Toyota team.

Small world!

Ian

--


Ian Ashdown
 

I remember his cars were always beautifully prepared.  Fast too!

How do you fly a LongEZ from the UK?  What range do they have?

Race cars are so similar to these aircraft that I feel if you can turn out a nice race car there’s no reason not to do the same for any aircraft, more or less.  The level of preparation of most professional race cars is so high; I have to say that they make some of the planes look a bit frightening!

Ian


Bill Allen
 

A LongEz has 40usg and with the standard Lycoming 0235 uses c.5gph @c145ktas so range c.966nm.
Mine has an IO-320 so uses c.7usgph @ 75%pwr=164ktas but I had 47usg capacity, plus a rear seat 180ltr tank, so that gave me range of c.13.6hrs/2,200nm

I flew the Northern route; Wick, Reyakyavic/Iceland, Narsarsuak/Greenland, Goose Bay/Canada, Bangor/USA, and then on to Oshkosh . In theory I didnt need all that range, but as there are few/no alternates (and each leg is about 760nm), it means turning back or carrying on, so having excess fuel was the plan. 

I agree with you about the variable quality of the job stateside - the US Experimental Category “for recreation & education” has many freedoms that we dont enjoy in the UK where we’re compelled to adhere to “a known and accepted international design code” (usually JAR/VLA or FAR23) - I remember seeing a small crowd gathering around a Cozy at Osh one year, so I thought it must be a “show plane”. When I got there, I realised the crowd had gathered because it was so shockingly bad.

Also it’s difficult to tell who is likely to produce a good job. about 20 years ago I went to Alamogordo with the intention of buying a Q200 from a guy who was a USAF pilot. I though with him being a professional, there was an odd-on chance that it would be a great example, he certainly spoke a good job. I arrived early, and was glad I did, because during the walk round of the Q I realised that there were so many inadequacies/bodges that I wouldn’t want to fly in it at all. I scarpered before he arrived rather than upset the guy.

There are some great examples of Q200 flying in CA, one of which did a great “Show n tell” recently on (?)Zoom.

IMHO - I wouldn’t fit a Rotax - a simple engine which needs lots of complex peripherals - I’d fit an 0-200 with EI&EFI  from SDS (which is what the CA guy on Zoom had done) But your choice. It’s just that I’ve fitted a water cooled engine to a LongEz (a Wilksch Diesel) and know how hard it is to shoe-horn it all in there and get all the inlet/outlet ducting to work. Even less room on a Q.

Best wishes!

Bill


On Sun, 6 Feb 2022 at 22:03, Ian Ashdown <ian.ashdown@...> wrote:
I remember his cars were always beautifully prepared.  Fast too!

How do you fly a LongEZ from the UK?  What range do they have?

Race cars are so similar to these aircraft that I feel if you can turn out a nice race car there’s no reason not to do the same for any aircraft, more or less.  The level of preparation of most professional race cars is so high; I have to say that they make some of the planes look a bit frightening!

Ian

--


Ian Ashdown
 

That sounds like a ‘trip’!  I’ve wondered what the longest hop was.  I’ve had half a thought that it would be cool to fly the Q200 to England and maybe some trips in to Europe.  I wasn’t sure if A Q could do it.  It sounds like it could be possible, but the safety margin would be small/non existent!

I hear you on the Rotax, but here’s my thinking.  One of the first things I did was look up the accident reports.  These reports have driven most of my re-engineering decisions.  It seemed that the largest cause of the fatal accidents was engine failure.  On that basis I decided that a modern computer controlled engine was likely to be the best bet.  It has the advantage of being very fuel efficient and light too!  The packaging of the accessories will be a challenge, the radiator isn’t that big as it only cools the heads, but I want to get good ducted air-flow to the cylinders and the crankcase in general.  I’m not sure if there’s an oil cooler . . .  I have some ideas how it might all work, but I have to figure the FS of the engine to achieve the balance first.  Getting complete and accurate data on the O-200 is proving difficult.  Once I have that I can back that out of the calculation and plug the 912 in.

I’m modeling everything in 3D CAD so I can have all my solutions well in advance.  I just got the engine and firewall modeled, and I can change the dimension to the firewall once I get the balance sorted out.  I think I have the WL of the thrust line for the Rotax and Now I need to find a cowl so I can check for fit or modifications.

I plan on writing up a summary of my thoughts, plans questions etc to post here on the forum, so I won’t go into all the details for now. I wouldn’t mind making contact with local Q owners but I imaging the communications over the coming months will probably achieve that . . . I hope so anyway.

Ian


Anthony P
 

These two planes, builders, pilots are at least in your state.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHrDOafL2j0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOvmvwyqN9E&t=1195s


--
Q2 N86KL


Robert Cringely
 

I once flew my old Glasair to the UK and back in the 1980s. The immersion suit mandated by Canadian regs was ghastly. I had made the flight 100+ times delivering Hawkers to Little Rock but that doesn’t prepare you at all for that many hours and miles over water in a sliver of fiberglass. I never did it again. 


Frankenbird Vern
 

 Which company were you with then? Made that journey a few times in a Falcon..both 20 and 50 to and from Little Rock.  Looking down at Greenland/Iceland and the wide open waters between even at Flight Levels is a serious undertaking. I can only imagine what a single engine at the Glasair speeds must have been like..and that is where it will stay for me too.. in my imagine :-o

 Flying Europe might be a fun challenge in a US homebuilt tho..take the cargo ship with the airplane. 

Vern   


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Robert Cringely <bob@...>
Sent: Monday, February 7, 2022 11:58 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] New Member Introduction
 
I once flew my old Glasair to the UK and back in the 1980s. The immersion suit mandated by Canadian regs was ghastly. I had made the flight 100+ times delivering Hawkers to Little Rock but that doesn’t prepare you at all for that many hours and miles over water in a sliver of fiberglass. I never did it again. 


Robert Cringely
 

I guess I worked directly for BaE. I was the dumb right-seater to RAF test pilot and European Aerobatic Champion Neil Williams. We became friends at the Shuttleworth Collection where he was a display pilot and I was an apprentice. Nearly every weekend had us flying a jet somewhere -- that is until Neil and his lovely wife flew an He-111 bomber into the side of a mountain... After that I moved back to the USA.



On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 12:10 PM <smeshno1@...> wrote:
 Which company were you with then? Made that journey a few times in a Falcon..both 20 and 50 to and from Little Rock.  Looking down at Greenland/Iceland and the wide open waters between even at Flight Levels is a serious undertaking. I can only imagine what a single engine at the Glasair speeds must have been like..and that is where it will stay for me too.. in my imagine :-o

 Flying Europe might be a fun challenge in a US homebuilt tho..take the cargo ship with the airplane. 

Vern   

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Robert Cringely <bob@...>
Sent: Monday, February 7, 2022 11:58 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] New Member Introduction
 
I once flew my old Glasair to the UK and back in the 1980s. The immersion suit mandated by Canadian regs was ghastly. I had made the flight 100+ times delivering Hawkers to Little Rock but that doesn’t prepare you at all for that many hours and miles over water in a sliver of fiberglass. I never did it again. 


Frankenbird Vern
 

 The worst part of entering the senior years as an aviator..loss of friends. At the time I was Private rated at Falcon..but also one of the Lead A&P. At times Dassault would expect a visit. France is where I had my first training in Composite aircraft field repair since the Falcon 50 was the first aircraft we had that included composite construction control surfaces. All of us at FalconJet in Little Rock were random selected to fly on either squawk flights or customer acceptance. Requiring the mechanics to fly had a definite encouraging factor to be certain the aircraft was airworthy. If a floor mechanic refused they were terminated on the spot, no matter what experience level they had. No secret, it was well known prior to an offer for employment that random flight duty would be required.   

 It was my time in the barrel so to speak in a bigger way due to the fact I was the Lead A&P on the first Falcon 50 of the program, so I had to be the trainer of our people in the States after my stint in Europe. Many trips followed..

 My wife who is Russian, has on her list of places to visit, Paris France. I've been avoiding that trip!  Outside of the Capitol it is pleasant but I have no romantic ideas of Paris. Not particularly fond of the Frenchies attitude toward others, at least as it was in the late 1970's and early 1980's.

 I asked because Little Rock Airmotive was the next door neighbor to our facility and if my memory is not too clouded over they were working the Hawker aircraft.  Perhaps sometime we can chat a bit about the times there.

Vern      


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Robert Cringely <bob@...>
Sent: Monday, February 7, 2022 5:05 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] New Member Introduction
 
I guess I worked directly for BaE. I was the dumb right-seater to RAF test pilot and European Aerobatic Champion Neil Williams. We became friends at the Shuttleworth Collection where he was a display pilot and I was an apprentice. Nearly every weekend had us flying a jet somewhere -- that is until Neil and his lovely wife flew an He-111 bomber into the side of a mountain... After that I moved back to the USA.



On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 12:10 PM <smeshno1@...> wrote:
 Which company were you with then? Made that journey a few times in a Falcon..both 20 and 50 to and from Little Rock.  Looking down at Greenland/Iceland and the wide open waters between even at Flight Levels is a serious undertaking. I can only imagine what a single engine at the Glasair speeds must have been like..and that is where it will stay for me too.. in my imagine :-o

 Flying Europe might be a fun challenge in a US homebuilt tho..take the cargo ship with the airplane. 

Vern   

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Robert Cringely <bob@...>
Sent: Monday, February 7, 2022 11:58 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] New Member Introduction
 
I once flew my old Glasair to the UK and back in the 1980s. The immersion suit mandated by Canadian regs was ghastly. I had made the flight 100+ times delivering Hawkers to Little Rock but that doesn’t prepare you at all for that many hours and miles over water in a sliver of fiberglass. I never did it again. 


Robert Cringely
 

I think that was Arkansas Aeromotive, which was owned by BaE. My parents lived in Arkansas and saw me more often when I lived in the UK than later when I moved to California. 

My company is looking for one or more Falcon 10s right now. Neil and I used to fly those, too. Twice, while deadheading back from Paris, we took it supersonic over the Channel. You couldn't do that in a Hawker pointed straight at the ground.



On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 3:33 PM <smeshno1@...> wrote:
 The worst part of entering the senior years as an aviator..loss of friends. At the time I was Private rated at Falcon..but also one of the Lead A&P. At times Dassault would expect a visit. France is where I had my first training in Composite aircraft field repair since the Falcon 50 was the first aircraft we had that included composite construction control surfaces. All of us at FalconJet in Little Rock were random selected to fly on either squawk flights or customer acceptance. Requiring the mechanics to fly had a definite encouraging factor to be certain the aircraft was airworthy. If a floor mechanic refused they were terminated on the spot, no matter what experience level they had. No secret, it was well known prior to an offer for employment that random flight duty would be required.   

 It was my time in the barrel so to speak in a bigger way due to the fact I was the Lead A&P on the first Falcon 50 of the program, so I had to be the trainer of our people in the States after my stint in Europe. Many trips followed..

 My wife who is Russian, has on her list of places to visit, Paris France. I've been avoiding that trip!  Outside of the Capitol it is pleasant but I have no romantic ideas of Paris. Not particularly fond of the Frenchies attitude toward others, at least as it was in the late 1970's and early 1980's.

 I asked because Little Rock Airmotive was the next door neighbor to our facility and if my memory is not too clouded over they were working the Hawker aircraft.  Perhaps sometime we can chat a bit about the times there.

Vern      


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Robert Cringely <bob@...>
Sent: Monday, February 7, 2022 5:05 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] New Member Introduction
 
I guess I worked directly for BaE. I was the dumb right-seater to RAF test pilot and European Aerobatic Champion Neil Williams. We became friends at the Shuttleworth Collection where he was a display pilot and I was an apprentice. Nearly every weekend had us flying a jet somewhere -- that is until Neil and his lovely wife flew an He-111 bomber into the side of a mountain... After that I moved back to the USA.



On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 12:10 PM <smeshno1@...> wrote:
 Which company were you with then? Made that journey a few times in a Falcon..both 20 and 50 to and from Little Rock.  Looking down at Greenland/Iceland and the wide open waters between even at Flight Levels is a serious undertaking. I can only imagine what a single engine at the Glasair speeds must have been like..and that is where it will stay for me too.. in my imagine :-o

 Flying Europe might be a fun challenge in a US homebuilt tho..take the cargo ship with the airplane. 

Vern   

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Robert Cringely <bob@...>
Sent: Monday, February 7, 2022 11:58 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] New Member Introduction
 
I once flew my old Glasair to the UK and back in the 1980s. The immersion suit mandated by Canadian regs was ghastly. I had made the flight 100+ times delivering Hawkers to Little Rock but that doesn’t prepare you at all for that many hours and miles over water in a sliver of fiberglass. I never did it again. 


Frankenbird Vern
 

 Well..of course the mach warning has to be tested. The 50 will also. :-)   

One of the options on the forward cabin closet display was a mach indicator. 

 Some funny stories come from being in the delivery side of Biz Jets.  I once had an acceptance flight on a Falcon 10 and the buyer was complaining he could stand up in it... and my response was he couldn't normally stand up in his Rolls Royce either.  He accepted the delivery!  

 I left the company in 1981 to return to my birth city of Wichita.  Had an offer to work on a then secret program at Raytheon Beechcraft. It ended up being something called the Starship 1... and I was on the R&D crew that built the first three mockups and the first three flight test aircraft. I flew NC2 on a rotation crew mostly over MCI.  That is where I met Rutan and the crew also working on Voyager.  Went to Boeing Wichita in 1985 when it was obvious the Starship was going to be a loosing program.   


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Robert Cringely <bob@...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2022 5:44 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] New Member Introduction
 
I think that was Arkansas Aeromotive, which was owned by BaE. My parents lived in Arkansas and saw me more often when I lived in the UK than later when I moved to California. 

My company is looking for one or more Falcon 10s right now. Neil and I used to fly those, too. Twice, while deadheading back from Paris, we took it supersonic over the Channel. You couldn't do that in a Hawker pointed straight at the ground.



On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 3:33 PM <smeshno1@...> wrote:
 The worst part of entering the senior years as an aviator..loss of friends. At the time I was Private rated at Falcon..but also one of the Lead A&P. At times Dassault would expect a visit. France is where I had my first training in Composite aircraft field repair since the Falcon 50 was the first aircraft we had that included composite construction control surfaces. All of us at FalconJet in Little Rock were random selected to fly on either squawk flights or customer acceptance. Requiring the mechanics to fly had a definite encouraging factor to be certain the aircraft was airworthy. If a floor mechanic refused they were terminated on the spot, no matter what experience level they had. No secret, it was well known prior to an offer for employment that random flight duty would be required.   

 It was my time in the barrel so to speak in a bigger way due to the fact I was the Lead A&P on the first Falcon 50 of the program, so I had to be the trainer of our people in the States after my stint in Europe. Many trips followed..

 My wife who is Russian, has on her list of places to visit, Paris France. I've been avoiding that trip!  Outside of the Capitol it is pleasant but I have no romantic ideas of Paris. Not particularly fond of the Frenchies attitude toward others, at least as it was in the late 1970's and early 1980's.

 I asked because Little Rock Airmotive was the next door neighbor to our facility and if my memory is not too clouded over they were working the Hawker aircraft.  Perhaps sometime we can chat a bit about the times there.

Vern      


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Robert Cringely <bob@...>
Sent: Monday, February 7, 2022 5:05 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] New Member Introduction
 
I guess I worked directly for BaE. I was the dumb right-seater to RAF test pilot and European Aerobatic Champion Neil Williams. We became friends at the Shuttleworth Collection where he was a display pilot and I was an apprentice. Nearly every weekend had us flying a jet somewhere -- that is until Neil and his lovely wife flew an He-111 bomber into the side of a mountain... After that I moved back to the USA.



On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 12:10 PM <smeshno1@...> wrote:
 Which company were you with then? Made that journey a few times in a Falcon..both 20 and 50 to and from Little Rock.  Looking down at Greenland/Iceland and the wide open waters between even at Flight Levels is a serious undertaking. I can only imagine what a single engine at the Glasair speeds must have been like..and that is where it will stay for me too.. in my imagine :-o

 Flying Europe might be a fun challenge in a US homebuilt tho..take the cargo ship with the airplane. 

Vern   

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Robert Cringely <bob@...>
Sent: Monday, February 7, 2022 11:58 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] New Member Introduction
 
I once flew my old Glasair to the UK and back in the 1980s. The immersion suit mandated by Canadian regs was ghastly. I had made the flight 100+ times delivering Hawkers to Little Rock but that doesn’t prepare you at all for that many hours and miles over water in a sliver of fiberglass. I never did it again. 


Mike Dwyer
 

This is the Q-list.  Realize your sending this to 500 people who are here and are interested in Q aircraft.  It's ok for an introduction but please stick to Q's.  I didn't subscribe to the mach meter list.
Mike Dwyer Q200

On Tue, Feb 8, 2022, 7:11 PM <smeshno1@...> wrote:
 Well..of course the mach warning has to be tested. The 50 will also. :-)   

One of the options on the forward cabin closet display was a mach indicator. 

 Some funny stories come from being in the delivery side of Biz Jets.  I once had an acceptance flight on a Falcon 10 and the buyer was complaining he could stand up in it... and my response was he couldn't normally stand up in his Rolls Royce either.  He accepted the delivery!  

 I left the company in 1981 to return to my birth city of Wichita.  Had an offer to work on a then secret program at Raytheon Beechcraft. It ended up being something called the Starship 1... and I was on the R&D crew that built the first three mockups and the first three flight test aircraft. I flew NC2 on a rotation crew mostly over MCI.  That is where I met Rutan and the crew also working on Voyager.  Went to Boeing Wichita in 1985 when it was obvious the Starship was going to be a loosing program.   


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Robert Cringely <bob@...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2022 5:44 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] New Member Introduction
 
I think that was Arkansas Aeromotive, which was owned by BaE. My parents lived in Arkansas and saw me more often when I lived in the UK than later when I moved to California. 

My company is looking for one or more Falcon 10s right now. Neil and I used to fly those, too. Twice, while deadheading back from Paris, we took it supersonic over the Channel. You couldn't do that in a Hawker pointed straight at the ground.



On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 3:33 PM <smeshno1@...> wrote:
 The worst part of entering the senior years as an aviator..loss of friends. At the time I was Private rated at Falcon..but also one of the Lead A&P. At times Dassault would expect a visit. France is where I had my first training in Composite aircraft field repair since the Falcon 50 was the first aircraft we had that included composite construction control surfaces. All of us at FalconJet in Little Rock were random selected to fly on either squawk flights or customer acceptance. Requiring the mechanics to fly had a definite encouraging factor to be certain the aircraft was airworthy. If a floor mechanic refused they were terminated on the spot, no matter what experience level they had. No secret, it was well known prior to an offer for employment that random flight duty would be required.   

 It was my time in the barrel so to speak in a bigger way due to the fact I was the Lead A&P on the first Falcon 50 of the program, so I had to be the trainer of our people in the States after my stint in Europe. Many trips followed..

 My wife who is Russian, has on her list of places to visit, Paris France. I've been avoiding that trip!  Outside of the Capitol it is pleasant but I have no romantic ideas of Paris. Not particularly fond of the Frenchies attitude toward others, at least as it was in the late 1970's and early 1980's.

 I asked because Little Rock Airmotive was the next door neighbor to our facility and if my memory is not too clouded over they were working the Hawker aircraft.  Perhaps sometime we can chat a bit about the times there.

Vern      


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Robert Cringely <bob@...>
Sent: Monday, February 7, 2022 5:05 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] New Member Introduction
 
I guess I worked directly for BaE. I was the dumb right-seater to RAF test pilot and European Aerobatic Champion Neil Williams. We became friends at the Shuttleworth Collection where he was a display pilot and I was an apprentice. Nearly every weekend had us flying a jet somewhere -- that is until Neil and his lovely wife flew an He-111 bomber into the side of a mountain... After that I moved back to the USA.



On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 12:10 PM <smeshno1@...> wrote:
 Which company were you with then? Made that journey a few times in a Falcon..both 20 and 50 to and from Little Rock.  Looking down at Greenland/Iceland and the wide open waters between even at Flight Levels is a serious undertaking. I can only imagine what a single engine at the Glasair speeds must have been like..and that is where it will stay for me too.. in my imagine :-o

 Flying Europe might be a fun challenge in a US homebuilt tho..take the cargo ship with the airplane. 

Vern   

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Robert Cringely <bob@...>
Sent: Monday, February 7, 2022 11:58 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] New Member Introduction
 
I once flew my old Glasair to the UK and back in the 1980s. The immersion suit mandated by Canadian regs was ghastly. I had made the flight 100+ times delivering Hawkers to Little Rock but that doesn’t prepare you at all for that many hours and miles over water in a sliver of fiberglass. I never did it again. 


Robert Cringely
 

VNE in my Q1 is Mach 0.3. My Xavion screen can display it. 

On Tue, Feb 8, 2022 at 7:26 PM Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...> wrote:
This is the Q-list.  Realize your sending this to 500 people who are here and are interested in Q aircraft.  It's ok for an introduction but please stick to Q's.  I didn't subscribe to the mach meter list.
Mike Dwyer Q200

On Tue, Feb 8, 2022, 7:11 PM <smeshno1@...> wrote:
 Well..of course the mach warning has to be tested. The 50 will also. :-)   

One of the options on the forward cabin closet display was a mach indicator. 

 Some funny stories come from being in the delivery side of Biz Jets.  I once had an acceptance flight on a Falcon 10 and the buyer was complaining he could stand up in it... and my response was he couldn't normally stand up in his Rolls Royce either.  He accepted the delivery!  

 I left the company in 1981 to return to my birth city of Wichita.  Had an offer to work on a then secret program at Raytheon Beechcraft. It ended up being something called the Starship 1... and I was on the R&D crew that built the first three mockups and the first three flight test aircraft. I flew NC2 on a rotation crew mostly over MCI.  That is where I met Rutan and the crew also working on Voyager.  Went to Boeing Wichita in 1985 when it was obvious the Starship was going to be a loosing program.   


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Robert Cringely <bob@...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2022 5:44 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] New Member Introduction
 
I think that was Arkansas Aeromotive, which was owned by BaE. My parents lived in Arkansas and saw me more often when I lived in the UK than later when I moved to California. 

My company is looking for one or more Falcon 10s right now. Neil and I used to fly those, too. Twice, while deadheading back from Paris, we took it supersonic over the Channel. You couldn't do that in a Hawker pointed straight at the ground.



On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 3:33 PM <smeshno1@...> wrote:
 The worst part of entering the senior years as an aviator..loss of friends. At the time I was Private rated at Falcon..but also one of the Lead A&P. At times Dassault would expect a visit. France is where I had my first training in Composite aircraft field repair since the Falcon 50 was the first aircraft we had that included composite construction control surfaces. All of us at FalconJet in Little Rock were random selected to fly on either squawk flights or customer acceptance. Requiring the mechanics to fly had a definite encouraging factor to be certain the aircraft was airworthy. If a floor mechanic refused they were terminated on the spot, no matter what experience level they had. No secret, it was well known prior to an offer for employment that random flight duty would be required.   

 It was my time in the barrel so to speak in a bigger way due to the fact I was the Lead A&P on the first Falcon 50 of the program, so I had to be the trainer of our people in the States after my stint in Europe. Many trips followed..

 My wife who is Russian, has on her list of places to visit, Paris France. I've been avoiding that trip!  Outside of the Capitol it is pleasant but I have no romantic ideas of Paris. Not particularly fond of the Frenchies attitude toward others, at least as it was in the late 1970's and early 1980's.

 I asked because Little Rock Airmotive was the next door neighbor to our facility and if my memory is not too clouded over they were working the Hawker aircraft.  Perhaps sometime we can chat a bit about the times there.

Vern      


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Robert Cringely <bob@...>
Sent: Monday, February 7, 2022 5:05 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] New Member Introduction
 
I guess I worked directly for BaE. I was the dumb right-seater to RAF test pilot and European Aerobatic Champion Neil Williams. We became friends at the Shuttleworth Collection where he was a display pilot and I was an apprentice. Nearly every weekend had us flying a jet somewhere -- that is until Neil and his lovely wife flew an He-111 bomber into the side of a mountain... After that I moved back to the USA.



On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 12:10 PM <smeshno1@...> wrote:
 Which company were you with then? Made that journey a few times in a Falcon..both 20 and 50 to and from Little Rock.  Looking down at Greenland/Iceland and the wide open waters between even at Flight Levels is a serious undertaking. I can only imagine what a single engine at the Glasair speeds must have been like..and that is where it will stay for me too.. in my imagine :-o

 Flying Europe might be a fun challenge in a US homebuilt tho..take the cargo ship with the airplane. 

Vern   

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Robert Cringely <bob@...>
Sent: Monday, February 7, 2022 11:58 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] New Member Introduction
 
I once flew my old Glasair to the UK and back in the 1980s. The immersion suit mandated by Canadian regs was ghastly. I had made the flight 100+ times delivering Hawkers to Little Rock but that doesn’t prepare you at all for that many hours and miles over water in a sliver of fiberglass. I never did it again.