Modern Engines on Q2?


 
Edited

Curious what modern engines people have put on their Q2s for upgrades? What else beside an O-200?
How about a Rotax 912ULS?
How about a UL260?
Which car conversion engines have been popular with the Quickie community?

Yes I know this is a controversial topic with the hard core aviator but please humor me and share what people have used, not your thoughts on how good or bad a car conversion is ;-)

Thanks Robert
--
Robert "TheFrisco" Schmid
(408) 805-5450

www.facebook.com/TheFlyingFriscos
www.theflyingfriscos.com

Love building planes almost as much as flying. Latest completed build is "Loki", a Chinook Plus 2 bush plane.


Robert Cringely
 

Revmaster is a car conversion, no?

On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 3:41 PM Robert Schmid <robert@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Curious what modern engines people have put on their Q2s for upgrades? What else beside an O-200?
How about a Rotax 912ULS?
How about a UL260?
Which car conversion engines have been popular with the Quickie community?

Yes I know this is a controversial topic with the hard core aviator but please humor me and share what people have used, not your thoughts on how good or bad a car conversion is ;-)

Thanks Robert
--
Robert "TheFrisco" Schmid
(408) 805-5450

www.facebook.com/TheFlyingFriscos
www.theflyingfriscos.com

Love building planes almost as much as flying. Latest completed build is "Loki", a Chinook Plus 2 bush plane.


ryan goodman
 

We are putting an aeromomentum am15 ok our TriQ. 


On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 13:53, Robert Cringely
<bob@...> wrote:
Revmaster is a car conversion, no?

On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 3:41 PM Robert Schmid <robert@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Curious what modern engines people have put on their Q2s for upgrades? What else beside an O-200?
How about a Rotax 912ULS?
How about a UL260?
Which car conversion engines have been popular with the Quickie community?

Yes I know this is a controversial topic with the hard core aviator but please humor me and share what people have used, not your thoughts on how good or bad a car conversion is ;-)

Thanks Robert
--
Robert "TheFrisco" Schmid
(408) 805-5450

www.facebook.com/TheFlyingFriscos
www.theflyingfriscos.com

Love building planes almost as much as flying. Latest completed build is "Loki", a Chinook Plus 2 bush plane.


Anthony P
 

Subaru
Jabiru
Great Planes
RevMaster
Limbach
Continental
UL
...


When I have a lot of money and a lot of time, I want to install the 80 HP D-Motor.



--
Q2 N86KL


Martin Skiby
 

Continental 0200 with modern ignition and maybe some fuel injection would be your best bet.   IMHO

Martin

 


On Apr 17, 2022, at 12:52 PM, Robert Cringely <bob@...> wrote:


Revmaster is a car conversion, no?

On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 3:41 PM Robert Schmid <robert@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Curious what modern engines people have put on their Q2s for upgrades? What else beside an O-200?
How about a Rotax 912ULS?
How about a UL260?
Which car conversion engines have been popular with the Quickie community?

Yes I know this is a controversial topic with the hard core aviator but please humor me and share what people have used, not your thoughts on how good or bad a car conversion is ;-)

Thanks Robert
--
Robert "TheFrisco" Schmid
(408) 805-5450

www.facebook.com/TheFlyingFriscos
www.theflyingfriscos.com

Love building planes almost as much as flying. Latest completed build is "Loki", a Chinook Plus 2 bush plane.


britmcman99
 

No. No. No. Revmaster is a very well engineered adaptation from few Volkswagen components with aviation born crankcase, forged crankshaft design. Sharing cylinder and pistons, con rods, Revmaster is very well thought out adaptation. Weaknesses in early magnesium crank cases have been mitigated with an alloy crank case with a 7 pound penalty. Notwithstanding, the current state of the art is likely the best offering of all other aero engines based upon Volkswagen components. 


On Apr 17, 2022, at 1:05 PM, ryan goodman via groups.io <elboy0712@...> wrote:

We are putting an aeromomentum am15 ok our TriQ. 


On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 13:53, Robert Cringely
<bob@...> wrote:
Revmaster is a car conversion, no?

On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 3:41 PM Robert Schmid <robert@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Curious what modern engines people have put on their Q2s for upgrades? What else beside an O-200?
How about a Rotax 912ULS?
How about a UL260?
Which car conversion engines have been popular with the Quickie community?

Yes I know this is a controversial topic with the hard core aviator but please humor me and share what people have used, not your thoughts on how good or bad a car conversion is ;-)

Thanks Robert
--
Robert "TheFrisco" Schmid
(408) 805-5450

www.facebook.com/TheFlyingFriscos
www.theflyingfriscos.com

Love building planes almost as much as flying. Latest completed build is "Loki", a Chinook Plus 2 bush plane.


britmcman99
 

Agreed with Martin. O-200 is a best engine for Q-200 even today for 100+ hp performance. 


On Apr 17, 2022, at 1:50 PM, Martin Skiby <mskiby@...> wrote:

Continental 0200 with modern ignition and maybe some fuel injection would be your best bet.   IMHO

Martin

 


On Apr 17, 2022, at 12:52 PM, Robert Cringely <bob@...> wrote:


Revmaster is a car conversion, no?

On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 3:41 PM Robert Schmid <robert@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Curious what modern engines people have put on their Q2s for upgrades? What else beside an O-200?
How about a Rotax 912ULS?
How about a UL260?
Which car conversion engines have been popular with the Quickie community?

Yes I know this is a controversial topic with the hard core aviator but please humor me and share what people have used, not your thoughts on how good or bad a car conversion is ;-)

Thanks Robert
--
Robert "TheFrisco" Schmid
(408) 805-5450

www.facebook.com/TheFlyingFriscos
www.theflyingfriscos.com

Love building planes almost as much as flying. Latest completed build is "Loki", a Chinook Plus 2 bush plane.


Ryszard Zadow
 

Show me any auto engine conversion that made it to 2000 hours. 

Auto engines don’t fly. Everyone i’ve known or heard of that’s tried went down one of three paths:  

1) Eventually went back to a Continental or Lycoming and flew happily ever after, 

2) It became a hangar queen. 

3) It killed them. 

Ryszard 

On Apr 17, 2022, at 16:40, britmcman99 via groups.io <britmcman@...> wrote:

No. No. No. Revmaster is a very well engineered adaptation from few Volkswagen components with aviation born crankcase, forged crankshaft design. Sharing cylinder and pistons, con rods, Revmaster is very well thought out adaptation. Weaknesses in early magnesium crank cases have been mitigated with an alloy crank case with a 7 pound penalty. Notwithstanding, the current state of the art is likely the best offering of all other aero engines based upon Volkswagen components. 


On Apr 17, 2022, at 1:05 PM, ryan goodman via groups.io <elboy0712@...> wrote:

We are putting an aeromomentum am15 ok our TriQ. 


On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 13:53, Robert Cringely
<bob@...> wrote:
Revmaster is a car conversion, no?

On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 3:41 PM Robert Schmid <robert@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Curious what modern engines people have put on their Q2s for upgrades? What else beside an O-200?
How about a Rotax 912ULS?
How about a UL260?
Which car conversion engines have been popular with the Quickie community?

Yes I know this is a controversial topic with the hard core aviator but please humor me and share what people have used, not your thoughts on how good or bad a car conversion is ;-)

Thanks Robert
--
Robert "TheFrisco" Schmid
(408) 805-5450

www.facebook.com/TheFlyingFriscos
www.theflyingfriscos.com

Love building planes almost as much as flying. Latest completed build is "Loki", a Chinook Plus 2 bush plane.


Terrence ONeill
 

Robert, my n131ps has a Jabiru 3300, 120 hp, Gen 3 with roller rockers, etc


On Apr 17, 2022, at 2:07 PM, ryan goodman via groups.io <elboy0712@...> wrote:

We are putting an aeromomentum am15 ok our TriQ. 


On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 13:53, Robert Cringely
<bob@...> wrote:
Revmaster is a car conversion, no?

On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 3:41 PM Robert Schmid <robert@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Curious what modern engines people have put on their Q2s for upgrades? What else beside an O-200?
How about a Rotax 912ULS?
How about a UL260?
Which car conversion engines have been popular with the Quickie community?

Yes I know this is a controversial topic with the hard core aviator but please humor me and share what people have used, not your thoughts on how good or bad a car conversion is ;-)

Thanks Robert
--
Robert "TheFrisco" Schmid
(408) 805-5450

www.facebook.com/TheFlyingFriscos
www.theflyingfriscos.com

Love building planes almost as much as flying. Latest completed build is "Loki", a Chinook Plus 2 bush plane.


 

I owned a Waiex with a 3300 Jabaru and I never got it tuned in right ... Rpm fluctuations and high CHTs on climbouts.

I say this knowing that I am not an expert on cooling and carbs but it left a bad taste in my mouth.

And yes that probably should tell me to stick with a very standard engine and not ask this question in the first place 😂


--
Robert "TheFrisco" Schmid
(408) 805-5450

www.facebook.com/TheFlyingFriscos
www.theflyingfriscos.com

Love building planes almost as much as flying. Latest completed build is "Loki", a Chinook Plus 2 bush plane.


Jay Scheevel
 

And a couple corvair engines. I think there is a Rotax powered Q2 in Australia

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Anthony P
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2022 2:51 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Modern Engines on Q2?

 

Subaru
Jabiru
Great Planes
RevMaster
Limbach
Continental
UL
...


When I have a lot of money and a lot of time, I want to install the 80 HP D-Motor.



--
Q2 N86KL


Frankenbird Vern
 

 Dragonfly builders.. Charlie Johnson (on You Tube known as One Sky Dog) and I have the Corvair..Charlie is about to get his aircraft 
operational again after having some issues with an induction system that was not up to the task. I believe Charlie has also upgraded
to the 2850cc from a stock 2700cc, version although it is possible to convert to as much as 3.3L.  The difference, beside the money, is 
the Hp is close to the O-235.  

 3.3L conversions are being flown in aerobatic aircraft..I.E.  the Panther.

 Weight difference is about 25lbs more than an O-200. The torque is less..so we must use only light composite or wood propellers..no all 
metal allowed. 
 
 Because there is no pair of magnetos the engine can be fit quite close to the firewall.. No "cutting in" of boxes required. 

 Vern    


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Robert Cringely <bob@...>
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2022 2:52 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Modern Engines on Q2?
 
Revmaster is a car conversion, no?

On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 3:41 PM Robert Schmid <robert@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Curious what modern engines people have put on their Q2s for upgrades? What else beside an O-200?
How about a Rotax 912ULS?
How about a UL260?
Which car conversion engines have been popular with the Quickie community?

Yes I know this is a controversial topic with the hard core aviator but please humor me and share what people have used, not your thoughts on how good or bad a car conversion is ;-)

Thanks Robert
--
Robert "TheFrisco" Schmid
(408) 805-5450

www.facebook.com/TheFlyingFriscos
www.theflyingfriscos.com

Love building planes almost as much as flying. Latest completed build is "Loki", a Chinook Plus 2 bush plane.


Robert Cringely
 

I know, I know. Heck, I first met Joe Horvath in the 70s when I was buying engine parts for my KR-1.

It was, I guess, a bad joke. The guy wanted to know about modified car engines for the Q2, forgetting that they ALL (at one time) had modified car engines.

Bob

 

On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 2:40 PM britmcman99 via groups.io <britmcman=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
No. No. No. Revmaster is a very well engineered adaptation from few Volkswagen components with aviation born crankcase, forged crankshaft design. Sharing cylinder and pistons, con rods, Revmaster is very well thought out adaptation. Weaknesses in early magnesium crank cases have been mitigated with an alloy crank case with a 7 pound penalty. Notwithstanding, the current state of the art is likely the best offering of all other aero engines based upon Volkswagen components. 


On Apr 17, 2022, at 1:05 PM, ryan goodman via groups.io <elboy0712=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

We are putting an aeromomentum am15 ok our TriQ. 


On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 13:53, Robert Cringely
<bob@...> wrote:
Revmaster is a car conversion, no?

On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 3:41 PM Robert Schmid <robert@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Curious what modern engines people have put on their Q2s for upgrades? What else beside an O-200?
How about a Rotax 912ULS?
How about a UL260?
Which car conversion engines have been popular with the Quickie community?

Yes I know this is a controversial topic with the hard core aviator but please humor me and share what people have used, not your thoughts on how good or bad a car conversion is ;-)

Thanks Robert
--
Robert "TheFrisco" Schmid
(408) 805-5450

www.facebook.com/TheFlyingFriscos
www.theflyingfriscos.com

Love building planes almost as much as flying. Latest completed build is "Loki", a Chinook Plus 2 bush plane.


Stan Susman <stanpfa@...>
 

The Rotax 100hp is certainly viable and well proven and there's tons of folks that can work on them now, but pricy. If I picked up that Q project I was leaning to the aeromomentum, not because it was of car engine heritage (and it is) but rather that it's used in a excellent outboard engine format. Think of it like this, airplanes and boats never really coast , its like they are always going up hill all the time at mostly constant throttle settings and do so due  to drag. Outboard engines take families w kids far offshore and mostly return safely and are good w minimal maintenance for over 2000 hrs and more , same thing, always going up hill. One of the best conversions I've ever seen was a Lancair ES w a gm v-8 ,the owner builder was in fact a gm engineer but not in engines. but the brilliant thing he did was to put a GM  L3 i think that was sold to him by, ---- a boat engine company, remember boats go uphill too. The only real mod was a belt drive psru. went better then 2000 hrs if I recall. Fun topic but I'm keeping it short.


On Sunday, April 17, 2022, 04:45:40 PM PDT, Robert Cringely <bob@...> wrote:


I know, I know. Heck, I first met Joe Horvath in the 70s when I was buying engine parts for my KR-1.

It was, I guess, a bad joke. The guy wanted to know about modified car engines for the Q2, forgetting that they ALL (at one time) had modified car engines.

Bob

 

On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 2:40 PM britmcman99 via groups.io <britmcman=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
No. No. No. Revmaster is a very well engineered adaptation from few Volkswagen components with aviation born crankcase, forged crankshaft design. Sharing cylinder and pistons, con rods, Revmaster is very well thought out adaptation. Weaknesses in early magnesium crank cases have been mitigated with an alloy crank case with a 7 pound penalty. Notwithstanding, the current state of the art is likely the best offering of all other aero engines based upon Volkswagen components. 


On Apr 17, 2022, at 1:05 PM, ryan goodman via groups.io <elboy0712=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

We are putting an aeromomentum am15 ok our TriQ. 


On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 13:53, Robert Cringely
<bob@...> wrote:
Revmaster is a car conversion, no?

On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 3:41 PM Robert Schmid <robert@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Curious what modern engines people have put on their Q2s for upgrades? What else beside an O-200?
How about a Rotax 912ULS?
How about a UL260?
Which car conversion engines have been popular with the Quickie community?

Yes I know this is a controversial topic with the hard core aviator but please humor me and share what people have used, not your thoughts on how good or bad a car conversion is ;-)

Thanks Robert
--
Robert "TheFrisco" Schmid
(408) 805-5450

www.facebook.com/TheFlyingFriscos
www.theflyingfriscos.com

Love building planes almost as much as flying. Latest completed build is "Loki", a Chinook Plus 2 bush plane.


Bill Allen
 

What Ryszard said.

Also depends on your ambition and appetites for either flying or long term R&D….

Bill Allen



On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 at 23:47, Ryszard Zadow <ryszardzadow@...> wrote:
Show me any auto engine conversion that made it to 2000 hours. 

Auto engines don’t fly. Everyone i’ve known or heard of that’s tried went down one of three paths:  

1) Eventually went back to a Continental or Lycoming and flew happily ever after, 

2) It became a hangar queen. 

3) It killed them. 

Ryszard 

On Apr 17, 2022, at 16:40, britmcman99 via groups.io <britmcman=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

No. No. No. Revmaster is a very well engineered adaptation from few Volkswagen components with aviation born crankcase, forged crankshaft design. Sharing cylinder and pistons, con rods, Revmaster is very well thought out adaptation. Weaknesses in early magnesium crank cases have been mitigated with an alloy crank case with a 7 pound penalty. Notwithstanding, the current state of the art is likely the best offering of all other aero engines based upon Volkswagen components. 


On Apr 17, 2022, at 1:05 PM, ryan goodman via groups.io <elboy0712=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

We are putting an aeromomentum am15 ok our TriQ. 


On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 13:53, Robert Cringely
<bob@...> wrote:
Revmaster is a car conversion, no?

On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 3:41 PM Robert Schmid <robert@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Curious what modern engines people have put on their Q2s for upgrades? What else beside an O-200?
How about a Rotax 912ULS?
How about a UL260?
Which car conversion engines have been popular with the Quickie community?

Yes I know this is a controversial topic with the hard core aviator but please humor me and share what people have used, not your thoughts on how good or bad a car conversion is ;-)

Thanks Robert
--
Robert "TheFrisco" Schmid
(408) 805-5450

www.facebook.com/TheFlyingFriscos
www.theflyingfriscos.com

Love building planes almost as much as flying. Latest completed build is "Loki", a Chinook Plus 2 bush plane.

--


Anthony P
 
Edited

The 2000 hr. TBO thing seems like a red herring (non sequitur) to me.

How many experimentals get to 2000 hrs?

The key seems to be knowing when to rebuild/replace and how much cost to rebuild.
A 500 hr. TBO engine that costs $2-3k to rebuild seems like it would cover 90% of the market.
Obviously it needs to actually get to 500 hrs, 95% of the time.

--
Q2 N86KL


Frankenbird Vern
 

 William Wynne can verify there are several Corvair conversions well over 1200 hours in several designs. An entire overhauled engine costs less than the 
rocker arms for a C-85/O-200.

 The engines have been flying since 1960.  Granted..low and slow back then but not so now..  Complete running valid cores average about $400. 

 Don't need to take my word for it..take a trip for yourself to Green Springs Florida and check it out.      


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Anthony P <solarant@...>
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2022 5:07 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Modern Engines on Q2?
 
The 2000 hr. TBO thing seems like a red hearing (non sequitur) to me.

How many experimentals get to 2000 hrs?

The key seems to be knowing when to rebuild/replace and how much cost to rebuild.
A 500 hr. TBO engine that costs $2-3k to rebuild seems like it would cover 90% of the market.
Obviously it needs to actually get to 500 hrs, 95% of the time.

--
Q2 N86KL


Ryszard Zadow
 

Exceptions don’t change the rule. Auto engnes don’t fly… I’ll go one step further…auto engines are dream killers. There’s no telling how many have wasted significant amounts of time wishing they were flying while struggling to make an auto conversion work. We have a Defiant that will never fly again because the builder was trying to use Mazda engines. He struggled so much that eventually he gave up. A lifetime of effort wasted when he could’ve been flying and enjoying his dream had he not been led down a path that somehow those Mazda engines would be superior .  When we learned of this particular Defiant we barely got there in time. The builder was so frustrated he was going to burn it. He already burned the cowlings by the time we got there. 

If your dream is to fly dont  go down that path. Auto engines are dream killers

RZ 



On Apr 18, 2022, at 18:24, Frankenbird Vern <smeshno1@...> wrote:


 William Wynne can verify there are several Corvair conversions well over 1200 hours in several designs. An entire overhauled engine costs less than the 
rocker arms for a C-85/O-200.

 The engines have been flying since 1960.  Granted..low and slow back then but not so now..  Complete running valid cores average about $400. 

 Don't need to take my word for it..take a trip for yourself to Green Springs Florida and check it out.      


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Anthony P <solarant@...>
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2022 5:07 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Modern Engines on Q2?
 
The 2000 hr. TBO thing seems like a red hearing (non sequitur) to me.

How many experimentals get to 2000 hrs?

The key seems to be knowing when to rebuild/replace and how much cost to rebuild.
A 500 hr. TBO engine that costs $2-3k to rebuild seems like it would cover 90% of the market.
Obviously it needs to actually get to 500 hrs, 95% of the time.

--
Q2 N86KL


Rick Hole
 

In my years at Velocity I worked with many builders and observed many more.  Those who chose auto engines took at least three extra years in the installation and debugging.  When they were ¨plowing new ground there was nobody they could call for help.  Certainly not the manufacturer.  They will claim liability issues and give no help.  The more computer dependent the engine was the more difficult to get it running.  Cooling was always a huge problem.  In an auto a big radiator and several gallons of coolant is no big deal.  On an airplane it is an issue.

One builder prided himself on his own design ignition system.  I worked so well on the ground.  On first flight it killed him.

One friend has been twenty years on his diesel project just on the engine.

If a builder has a passion for engine work, the time to pursue it, and is willing to his himself and family, the choice is his.  I would not go that route myself.

I will say I have seen a few installations with several hundred hours on them.  And more that have been converted back to conventional aircraft engines.

 

Rick Hole


Fredd Baber
 

When we say “auto engines” are including things like Great Plaines VW conversions as well?  Engines that are already air cooled?  
Thanks!

Fredd Baber


On Apr 19, 2022, at 12:55 AM, Rick Hole via groups.io <r.hole@...> wrote:



In my years at Velocity I worked with many builders and observed many more.  Those who chose auto engines took at least three extra years in the installation and debugging.  When they were ¨plowing new ground there was nobody they could call for help.  Certainly not the manufacturer.  They will claim liability issues and give no help.  The more computer dependent the engine was the more difficult to get it running.  Cooling was always a huge problem.  In an auto a big radiator and several gallons of coolant is no big deal.  On an airplane it is an issue.

One builder prided himself on his own design ignition system.  I worked so well on the ground.  On first flight it killed him.

One friend has been twenty years on his diesel project just on the engine.

If a builder has a passion for engine work, the time to pursue it, and is willing to his himself and family, the choice is his.  I would not go that route myself.

I will say I have seen a few installations with several hundred hours on them.  And more that have been converted back to conventional aircraft engines.

 

Rick Hole