|
Chris and Vern,
This may have been discussed before, but just curious as to why
each of you has chosen a hybrid - aka "Quick Drag" "Q2 Fly" or
"Dragon Q2"
Terry
DF Mk1
N41521
On 9/21/2022 8:31 AM, Frankenbird Vern
wrote:
Chris.. you have a Dragonfly Canard and Wing, or did you extend
the span on both Q design surfaces?
I am actually going the opposite.. a "clip wing" Dragonfly with
Q2 fuselage and vertical surfaces.
I will measure the mass at the same place in build just have a
base measurement of structure
over or under the "average".
I suspect my aircraft is already to the heavy side but that is
based on the MKII
Dragonfly Canard, which
includes extra plies
in the layup schedule. I will also be deleting the stubby fiberglas gear stubs
and
installing a steel
spring tapered tube Wittman main gear
to the engine mount.
That should also add
weight to the
airframe.
Vern
Robert---------- My empty weight is
749. The firewall forward is
256 plus abut 10lbs for the cowl. The 18 lb battery is in
the back, plus
the rad and the gallon and half of coolant. Doing the math
I am probably
over 440. I do have the steel inboard landing gear and 18
inches more
span on both the wing and canard. I also had to install
14 lbs in the
tail area to get proper CG.
Take care------------ Chris
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Frankenbird Vern
The spar of the Dragonfly build, and I didn't have a spar with the Q2 items I purchased. I have a set of both Dragonfly and Q2 design packages.
The other reason Frankenbird became closer to reality is a set of very well constructed surfaces became available for less than what the raw materials would cost to build. Similar deal on the Q2 fuselage. What I purchased was pieced out "kit" but with all
the history and sale invoices.
What I am doing something I would NOT recommend to a first time builder at all!! NOT! We have a saying in the aircraft M.E. world.. Pioneers are the FIRST to catch the arrows!
All in so far I have less than $2,200 in the airframe. My engine will be in the area of about $8,500 (zero time Corvair WW conversion and I have a deep background in engine build and overhaul, including the Corvair flat 6). I plan to stay VFR and the panel
will reflect that. I am an old timer that still uses a slide rule E6B. No batteries included.
That is how I fly also..like a chicken. I can't remember a time I felt more uncomfortable than when I was VFR between layers. I did that ONCE in a familiar area in a highly equipped rental Piper Warrior that was almost new at the time. My instructor at the
time was a hard ass old airforce instructor and his C152 was IFR.
I had my Private ticket sign off in less than 40 hours, so to run off the time I had a lot of PAR practice at Jacksonville AFB and actual IFR in the clouds with Fitz. Not to say I am qualified IFR, only that I learned my limits. I also knew that by the time
I reached North Little Rock where I lived then, the layers would clear (FSS was live then). Ironically at the time I was over Tulsa and was being vectored by them. I live not too far from Tulsa now.
The name Frankenbird is going to stay in my case because of course it is well named. That also and the fact that I am of German and Swiss heritage (German Grandfather and Swiss on my Mom's side of the family). I am building a Bavarian style mother-in-law sized
cottage complete with the exterior trim on our property in Oklahoma. The 48 X 25 hangar also in process but it is a usual design.
My wife holds both Russian and American citizenships, and Russians have a deep love/hate relationship with Germany...it fits well in our marriage
🙂 Remember the angry crowd in the old movie where they are going up the hill to fry poor ol Franky while he is growling and trying to fend off the flaming torches??...that is what happens when Lara gets angry at me. Thus..it is important I
complete the Bavarian style Cottage as soon as possible!!!
Another factor is I have been in the professional side of aircraft construction for most of my life, and about 1/3 of that time in Composites build. Also have been in both Shop and Engineering job roles. Not just in large factories, but MRO and Repair Stations
(larger businesses, with advanced composites manufacturing equipment such as Nordam NTR/Gulfstream).
Vern Lehman
Frankenbird
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Show quoted text
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Terry Adams <terrywadams@...>
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2022 6:26 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] What is a Quick Drag?
Chris and Vern,
This may have been discussed before, but just curious as to why each of you has chosen a hybrid - aka "Quick Drag" "Q2 Fly" or "Dragon Q2"
Terry
DF Mk1
N41521
On 9/21/2022 8:31 AM, Frankenbird Vern wrote:
Chris.. you have a Dragonfly Canard and Wing, or did you extend the span on both Q design surfaces?
I am actually going the opposite.. a "clip wing" Dragonfly with Q2 fuselage and vertical surfaces.
I will measure the mass at the same place in build just have a base measurement of structure
over or under the "average".
I suspect my aircraft is already to the heavy side but that is based on the MKII Dragonfly Canard, which
includes extra plies in the layup schedule. I will also be deleting the
stubby fiberglas gear stubs and
installing a steel spring tapered tube Wittman main gear
to the engine mount. That should also add
weight to the airframe.
Vern
Robert---------- My empty weight is 749. The firewall forward is
256 plus abut 10lbs for the cowl. The 18 lb battery is in the back, plus
the rad and the gallon and half of coolant. Doing the math I am probably
over 440. I do have the steel inboard landing gear and 18 inches more
span on both the wing and canard. I also had to install 14 lbs in the
tail area to get proper CG.
Take care------------ Chris
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Jay Scheevel
Good points, Vern. Staying within ones comfort zone is a good thing, and also staying within the limits of what has already been done/proven and is well documented (ie. origianl plans and Q-talk) is essential if you are a novice builder. Sounds like strange advice coming from me. 😉 Cheers, Jay
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Frankenbird Vern Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2022 5:36 AM To: main@Q-List.groups.io Subject: Re: [Q-List] What is a Quick Drag? The spar of the Dragonfly build, and I didn't have a spar with the Q2 items I purchased. I have a set of both Dragonfly and Q2 design packages. The other reason Frankenbird became closer to reality is a set of very well constructed surfaces became available for less than what the raw materials would cost to build. Similar deal on the Q2 fuselage. What I purchased was pieced out "kit" but with all the history and sale invoices. What I am doing something I would NOT recommend to a first time builder at all!! NOT! We have a saying in the aircraft M.E. world.. Pioneers are the FIRST to catch the arrows! All in so far I have less than $2,200 in the airframe. My engine will be in the area of about $8,500 (zero time Corvair WW conversion and I have a deep background in engine build and overhaul, including the Corvair flat 6). I plan to stay VFR and the panel will reflect that. I am an old timer that still uses a slide rule E6B. No batteries included. That is how I fly also..like a chicken. I can't remember a time I felt more uncomfortable than when I was VFR between layers. I did that ONCE in a familiar area in a highly equipped rental Piper Warrior that was almost new at the time. My instructor at the time was a hard ass old airforce instructor and his C152 was IFR. I had my Private ticket sign off in less than 40 hours, so to run off the time I had a lot of PAR practice at Jacksonville AFB and actual IFR in the clouds with Fitz. Not to say I am qualified IFR, only that I learned my limits. I also knew that by the time I reached North Little Rock where I lived then, the layers would clear (FSS was live then). Ironically at the time I was over Tulsa and was being vectored by them. I live not too far from Tulsa now. The name Frankenbird is going to stay in my case because of course it is well named. That also and the fact that I am of German and Swiss heritage (German Grandfather and Swiss on my Mom's side of the family). I am building a Bavarian style mother-in-law sized cottage complete with the exterior trim on our property in Oklahoma. The 48 X 25 hangar also in process but it is a usual design. My wife holds both Russian and American citizenships, and Russians have a deep love/hate relationship with Germany...it fits well in our marriage 🙂 Remember the angry crowd in the old movie where they are going up the hill to fry poor ol Franky while he is growling and trying to fend off the flaming torches??...that is what happens when Lara gets angry at me. Thus..it is important I complete the Bavarian style Cottage as soon as possible!!! Another factor is I have been in the professional side of aircraft construction for most of my life, and about 1/3 of that time in Composites build. Also have been in both Shop and Engineering job roles. Not just in large factories, but MRO and Repair Stations (larger businesses, with advanced composites manufacturing equipment such as Nordam NTR/Gulfstream).
Chris and Vern,
This may have been discussed before, but just curious as to why each of you has chosen a hybrid - aka "Quick Drag" "Q2 Fly" or "Dragon Q2"
Terry
DF Mk1
N41521 On 9/21/2022 8:31 AM, Frankenbird Vern wrote: Chris.. you have a Dragonfly Canard and Wing, or did you extend the span on both Q design surfaces? I am actually going the opposite.. a "clip wing" Dragonfly with Q2 fuselage and vertical surfaces. I will measure the mass at the same place in build just have a base measurement of structure over or under the "average". I suspect my aircraft is already to the heavy side but that is based on the MKII Dragonfly Canard, which includes extra plies in the layup schedule. I will also be deleting the stubby fiberglas gear stubs and installing a steel spring tapered tube Wittman main gear to the engine mount. That should also add
Robert---------- My empty weight is 749. The firewall forward is
256 plus abut 10lbs for the cowl. The 18 lb battery is in the back, plus
the rad and the gallon and half of coolant. Doing the math I am probably
over 440. I do have the steel inboard landing gear and 18 inches more
span on both the wing and canard. I also had to install 14 lbs in the
tail area to get proper CG.
Take care------------ Chris
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Frankenbird Vern
I totally agree with you, Jay. I realize that it is tempting to be creative, and as long as such changes do not compromise the basic "as known works" design, then a limited experience builder should be ok. As a DAR in the works, I will always recommend staying
in the known process. That is what I do now inside the Engineering setting I am in now.
I will be proceeding in my ratings starting in April. My goal is to be a DAR in the Tulsa area, specifically supporting our aircraft community, Experimental aviation.
There are important structural changes I will do that would be dangerous to attempt without the background.
If at all possible.. a builder can track down a good O-200 then budget for it!! I owned one, flew behind that powerplant and maintained it for almost 2 decades. It served me very well indeed and I did not abuse it. When I sold the aircraft she was in better
condition by far than when I purchased it. All it took to do that was cubic dollars and many many hours of labor.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2022 8:50 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] What is a Quick Drag?
Good points, Vern. Staying within ones comfort zone is a good thing, and also staying within the limits of what has already been done/proven and is well documented (ie. origianl plans and Q-talk) is essential if you are a novice builder.
Sounds like strange advice coming from me.
😉
Cheers,
Jay
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Frankenbird Vern
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2022 5:36 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] What is a Quick Drag?
The spar of the Dragonfly build, and I didn't have a spar with the Q2 items I purchased. I have a set of both Dragonfly and Q2 design packages.
The other reason Frankenbird became closer to reality is a set of very well constructed surfaces became available for less than what the raw materials would cost to build. Similar deal on
the Q2 fuselage. What I purchased was pieced out "kit" but with all the history and sale invoices.
What I am doing something I would NOT recommend to a first time builder at all!! NOT! We have a saying in the aircraft M.E. world.. Pioneers are the FIRST to catch the arrows!
All in so far I have less than $2,200 in the airframe. My engine will be in the area of about $8,500 (zero time Corvair WW conversion and I have a deep background in engine build and overhaul,
including the Corvair flat 6). I plan to stay VFR and the panel will reflect that. I am an old timer that still uses a slide rule E6B. No batteries included.
That is how I fly also..like a chicken. I can't remember a time I felt more uncomfortable than when I was VFR between layers. I did that ONCE in a familiar area in a highly equipped rental
Piper Warrior that was almost new at the time. My instructor at the time was a hard ass old airforce instructor and his C152 was IFR.
I had my Private ticket sign off in less than 40 hours, so to run off the time I had a lot of PAR practice at Jacksonville AFB and actual IFR in the clouds with Fitz. Not to say I am qualified
IFR, only that I learned my limits. I also knew that by the time I reached North Little Rock where I lived then, the layers would clear (FSS was live then). Ironically at the time I was over Tulsa and was being vectored by them. I live not too far from Tulsa
now.
The name Frankenbird is going to stay in my case because of course it is well named. That also and the fact that I am of German and Swiss heritage (German Grandfather and Swiss on my Mom's
side of the family). I am building a Bavarian style mother-in-law sized cottage complete with the exterior trim on our property in Oklahoma. The 48 X 25 hangar also in process but it is a usual design.
My wife holds both Russian and American citizenships, and Russians have a deep love/hate relationship with Germany...it fits well in our marriage
🙂 Remember the angry crowd in the old movie where they are going up the hill to fry poor ol Franky while he is growling
and trying to fend off the flaming torches??...that is what happens when Lara gets angry at me. Thus..it is important I complete the Bavarian style Cottage as soon as possible!!!
Another factor is I have been in the professional side of aircraft construction for most of my life, and about 1/3 of that time in Composites build. Also have been in both Shop and Engineering
job roles. Not just in large factories, but MRO and Repair Stations (larger businesses, with advanced composites manufacturing equipment such as Nordam NTR/Gulfstream).
Chris and Vern,
This may have been discussed before, but just curious as to why each of you has chosen a hybrid - aka "Quick Drag" "Q2 Fly" or "Dragon Q2"
Terry
DF Mk1
N41521
On 9/21/2022 8:31 AM, Frankenbird Vern wrote:
Chris.. you have a Dragonfly Canard and Wing, or did you extend the span on both Q design surfaces?
I am actually going the opposite.. a "clip wing" Dragonfly with Q2 fuselage and vertical surfaces.
I will measure the mass at the same place in build just have a base measurement of structure
over or under the "average".
I suspect my aircraft is already to the heavy side but that is based on the MKII Dragonfly Canard, which
includes extra plies in the layup schedule. I will also be deleting the stubby fiberglas gear stubs and
installing a steel spring tapered tube Wittman main gear to the engine mount. That should also add
Robert---------- My empty weight is 749. The firewall forward is
256 plus abut 10lbs for the cowl. The 18 lb battery is in the back, plus
the rad and the gallon and half of coolant. Doing the math I am probably
over 440. I do have the steel inboard landing gear and 18 inches more
span on both the wing and canard. I also had to install 14 lbs in the
tail area to get proper CG.
Take care------------ Chris
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Terry-------- Comfort zone is my excuse. I had built a little Super Quickie with the wheels on the outboard. Worked great, but I also had built a Dragonfly with the inboard gear. I have 800 hrs on the inboard gear, so I decided to do the Q200 with this design.
A fellow builder from Calgary had inboard gear on a Q, but I think he used the GU airfoil. I liked the LS airfoil and had the original carbon spars. Because the LS is a thinner airfoil I used the original carbon spars, plus I built a forward "Dragonfly " C spar to capture the landing gear sockets. Added a bunch more carbon fiber and then used tri ply fiberglass to enclose it all. This allows me to used a steel leaf spring landing gear.
Other little mods are all my control bellcranks are dual tabs to capture the rod ends. I also installed a Dragonfly vertical stab and balanced rudder and tail wheel setup. The aircraft also has dual controls. A very tight fit when installing the passenger stick.
I have a 2.5 turbocharged direct drive Subaru engine. I also have two other airplanes with Subarus. Because I followed the plans pretty close, the airplane flew hands of the first flight. Trim it out with reflexor and away I go.
None of what I have done is the "right way". This is all personal preference.
It would be a terrible world if we only had Vanilla ice cream.. As the french say " Viv la difference"------------- Chris
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Bruce Crain
How long have you been building Vern? I suspect you just might give Jay a “run for the money” on build time. Jay has a wonderful TriQ 200+ but a lot of our hair turned grey in the mean time.
On Sep 22, 2022, at 8:50 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:
Good points, Vern. Staying within ones comfort zone is a good thing, and also staying within the limits of what has already been done/proven and is well documented (ie. origianl plans and Q-talk) is essential if you are a novice builder. Sounds like strange advice coming from me. 😉 Cheers, Jay From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Frankenbird Vern
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2022 5:36 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] What is a Quick Drag? The spar of the Dragonfly build, and I didn't have a spar with the Q2 items I purchased. I have a set of both Dragonfly and Q2 design packages. The other reason Frankenbird became closer to reality is a set of very well constructed surfaces became available for less than what the raw materials would cost to build. Similar deal on the Q2 fuselage. What I purchased was pieced out "kit" but with all the history and sale invoices. What I am doing something I would NOT recommend to a first time builder at all!! NOT! We have a saying in the aircraft M.E. world.. Pioneers are the FIRST to catch the arrows! All in so far I have less than $2,200 in the airframe. My engine will be in the area of about $8,500 (zero time Corvair WW conversion and I have a deep background in engine build and overhaul, including the Corvair flat 6). I plan to stay VFR and the panel will reflect that. I am an old timer that still uses a slide rule E6B. No batteries included. That is how I fly also..like a chicken. I can't remember a time I felt more uncomfortable than when I was VFR between layers. I did that ONCE in a familiar area in a highly equipped rental Piper Warrior that was almost new at the time. My instructor at the time was a hard ass old airforce instructor and his C152 was IFR. I had my Private ticket sign off in less than 40 hours, so to run off the time I had a lot of PAR practice at Jacksonville AFB and actual IFR in the clouds with Fitz. Not to say I am qualified IFR, only that I learned my limits. I also knew that by the time I reached North Little Rock where I lived then, the layers would clear (FSS was live then). Ironically at the time I was over Tulsa and was being vectored by them. I live not too far from Tulsa now. The name Frankenbird is going to stay in my case because of course it is well named. That also and the fact that I am of German and Swiss heritage (German Grandfather and Swiss on my Mom's side of the family). I am building a Bavarian style mother-in-law sized cottage complete with the exterior trim on our property in Oklahoma. The 48 X 25 hangar also in process but it is a usual design. My wife holds both Russian and American citizenships, and Russians have a deep love/hate relationship with Germany...it fits well in our marriage 🙂 Remember the angry crowd in the old movie where they are going up the hill to fry poor ol Franky while he is growling and trying to fend off the flaming torches??...that is what happens when Lara gets angry at me. Thus..it is important I complete the Bavarian style Cottage as soon as possible!!! Another factor is I have been in the professional side of aircraft construction for most of my life, and about 1/3 of that time in Composites build. Also have been in both Shop and Engineering job roles. Not just in large factories, but MRO and Repair Stations (larger businesses, with advanced composites manufacturing equipment such as Nordam NTR/Gulfstream).
Chris and Vern,
This may have been discussed before, but just curious as to why each of you has chosen a hybrid - aka "Quick Drag" "Q2 Fly" or "Dragon Q2"
Terry
DF Mk1
N41521 On 9/21/2022 8:31 AM, Frankenbird Vern wrote: Chris.. you have a Dragonfly Canard and Wing, or did you extend the span on both Q design surfaces? I am actually going the opposite.. a "clip wing" Dragonfly with Q2 fuselage and vertical surfaces. I will measure the mass at the same place in build just have a base measurement of structure over or under the "average". I suspect my aircraft is already to the heavy side but that is based on the MKII Dragonfly Canard, which includes extra plies in the layup schedule. I will also be deleting the stubby fiberglas gear stubs and installing a steel spring tapered tube Wittman main gear to the engine mount. That should also add
Robert---------- My empty weight is 749. The firewall forward is
256 plus abut 10lbs for the cowl. The 18 lb battery is in the back, plus
the rad and the gallon and half of coolant. Doing the math I am probably
over 440. I do have the steel inboard landing gear and 18 inches more
span on both the wing and canard. I also had to install 14 lbs in the
tail area to get proper CG.
Take care------------ Chris
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Frankenbird Vern
First parts procured in 2006. Las Vegas Nevada in the Luxor Parking lot.
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Show quoted text
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2022 10:26 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] What is a Quick Drag?
How long have you been building Vern? I suspect you just might give Jay a “run for the money” on build time. Jay has a wonderful TriQ 200+ but a lot of our hair turned grey in the mean time.
Bruce
On Sep 22, 2022, at 8:50 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:
Good points, Vern. Staying within ones comfort zone is a good thing, and also staying within the limits of what has already been done/proven and is well documented (ie. origianl plans and Q-talk) is essential if you are a novice builder.
Sounds like strange advice coming from me.
😉
Cheers,
Jay
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Frankenbird Vern
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2022 5:36 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] What is a Quick Drag?
The spar of the Dragonfly build, and I didn't have a spar with the Q2 items I purchased. I have a set of both Dragonfly and Q2 design packages.
The other reason Frankenbird became closer to reality is a set of very well constructed surfaces became available for less than what the raw materials would cost to build. Similar deal on
the Q2 fuselage. What I purchased was pieced out "kit" but with all the history and sale invoices.
What I am doing something I would NOT recommend to a first time builder at all!! NOT! We have a saying in the aircraft M.E. world.. Pioneers are the FIRST to catch the arrows!
All in so far I have less than $2,200 in the airframe. My engine will be in the area of about $8,500 (zero time Corvair WW conversion and I have a deep background in engine build and overhaul,
including the Corvair flat 6). I plan to stay VFR and the panel will reflect that. I am an old timer that still uses a slide rule E6B. No batteries included.
That is how I fly also..like a chicken. I can't remember a time I felt more uncomfortable than when I was VFR between layers. I did that ONCE in a familiar area in a highly equipped rental
Piper Warrior that was almost new at the time. My instructor at the time was a hard ass old airforce instructor and his C152 was IFR.
I had my Private ticket sign off in less than 40 hours, so to run off the time I had a lot of PAR practice at Jacksonville AFB and actual IFR in the clouds with Fitz. Not to say I am qualified
IFR, only that I learned my limits. I also knew that by the time I reached North Little Rock where I lived then, the layers would clear (FSS was live then). Ironically at the time I was over Tulsa and was being vectored by them. I live not too far from Tulsa
now.
The name Frankenbird is going to stay in my case because of course it is well named. That also and the fact that I am of German and Swiss heritage (German Grandfather and Swiss on my Mom's
side of the family). I am building a Bavarian style mother-in-law sized cottage complete with the exterior trim on our property in Oklahoma. The 48 X 25 hangar also in process but it is a usual design.
My wife holds both Russian and American citizenships, and Russians have a deep love/hate relationship with Germany...it fits well in our marriage
🙂 Remember the angry crowd in the old movie where they are going up the hill to fry poor ol Franky while he is
growling and trying to fend off the flaming torches??...that is what happens when Lara gets angry at me. Thus..it is important I complete the Bavarian style Cottage as soon as possible!!!
Another factor is I have been in the professional side of aircraft construction for most of my life, and about 1/3 of that time in Composites build. Also have been in both Shop and Engineering
job roles. Not just in large factories, but MRO and Repair Stations (larger businesses, with advanced composites manufacturing equipment such as Nordam NTR/Gulfstream).
Chris and Vern,
This may have been discussed before, but just curious as to why each of you has chosen a hybrid - aka "Quick Drag" "Q2 Fly" or "Dragon Q2"
Terry
DF Mk1
N41521
On 9/21/2022 8:31 AM, Frankenbird Vern wrote:
Chris.. you have a Dragonfly Canard and Wing, or did you extend the span on both Q design surfaces?
I am actually going the opposite.. a "clip wing" Dragonfly with Q2 fuselage and vertical surfaces.
I will measure the mass at the same place in build just have a base measurement of structure
over or under the "average".
I suspect my aircraft is already to the heavy side but that is based on the MKII Dragonfly Canard, which
includes extra plies in the layup schedule. I will also be deleting the stubby fiberglas gear stubs and
installing a steel spring tapered tube Wittman main gear to the engine mount. That should also add
Robert---------- My empty weight is 749. The firewall forward is
256 plus abut 10lbs for the cowl. The 18 lb battery is in the back, plus
the rad and the gallon and half of coolant. Doing the math I am probably
over 440. I do have the steel inboard landing gear and 18 inches more
span on both the wing and canard. I also had to install 14 lbs in the
tail area to get proper CG.
Take care------------ Chris
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Jim Patillo
Bruce as you know,
There are those who will not, those who may and those who will. Pick one. Time goes by fast🫵👍
Jim
N46JP Q200
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Show quoted text
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2022 8:26:10 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] What is a Quick Drag?
How long have you been building Vern? I suspect you just might give Jay a “run for the money” on build time. Jay has a wonderful TriQ 200+ but a lot of our hair turned grey in the mean time.
Bruce
On Sep 22, 2022, at 8:50 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:
Good points, Vern. Staying within ones comfort zone is a good thing, and also staying within the limits of what has already been done/proven and is well documented (ie. origianl plans and Q-talk) is essential if you are a novice builder.
Sounds like strange advice coming from me.
😉
Cheers,
Jay
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Frankenbird Vern
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2022 5:36 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] What is a Quick Drag?
The spar of the Dragonfly build, and I didn't have a spar with the Q2 items I purchased. I have a set of both Dragonfly and Q2 design packages.
The other reason Frankenbird became closer to reality is a set of very well constructed surfaces became available for less than what the raw materials would cost to build. Similar deal on
the Q2 fuselage. What I purchased was pieced out "kit" but with all the history and sale invoices.
What I am doing something I would NOT recommend to a first time builder at all!! NOT! We have a saying in the aircraft M.E. world.. Pioneers are the FIRST to catch the arrows!
All in so far I have less than $2,200 in the airframe. My engine will be in the area of about $8,500 (zero time Corvair WW conversion and I have a deep background in engine build and overhaul,
including the Corvair flat 6). I plan to stay VFR and the panel will reflect that. I am an old timer that still uses a slide rule E6B. No batteries included.
That is how I fly also..like a chicken. I can't remember a time I felt more uncomfortable than when I was VFR between layers. I did that ONCE in a familiar area in a highly equipped rental
Piper Warrior that was almost new at the time. My instructor at the time was a hard ass old airforce instructor and his C152 was IFR.
I had my Private ticket sign off in less than 40 hours, so to run off the time I had a lot of PAR practice at Jacksonville AFB and actual IFR in the clouds with Fitz. Not to say I am qualified
IFR, only that I learned my limits. I also knew that by the time I reached North Little Rock where I lived then, the layers would clear (FSS was live then). Ironically at the time I was over Tulsa and was being vectored by them. I live not too far from Tulsa
now.
The name Frankenbird is going to stay in my case because of course it is well named. That also and the fact that I am of German and Swiss heritage (German Grandfather and Swiss on my Mom's
side of the family). I am building a Bavarian style mother-in-law sized cottage complete with the exterior trim on our property in Oklahoma. The 48 X 25 hangar also in process but it is a usual design.
My wife holds both Russian and American citizenships, and Russians have a deep love/hate relationship with Germany...it fits well in our marriage
🙂 Remember the angry crowd in the old movie where they are going up the hill to fry poor ol Franky while he is
growling and trying to fend off the flaming torches??...that is what happens when Lara gets angry at me. Thus..it is important I complete the Bavarian style Cottage as soon as possible!!!
Another factor is I have been in the professional side of aircraft construction for most of my life, and about 1/3 of that time in Composites build. Also have been in both Shop and Engineering
job roles. Not just in large factories, but MRO and Repair Stations (larger businesses, with advanced composites manufacturing equipment such as Nordam NTR/Gulfstream).
Chris and Vern,
This may have been discussed before, but just curious as to why each of you has chosen a hybrid - aka "Quick Drag" "Q2 Fly" or "Dragon Q2"
Terry
DF Mk1
N41521
On 9/21/2022 8:31 AM, Frankenbird Vern wrote:
Chris.. you have a Dragonfly Canard and Wing, or did you extend the span on both Q design surfaces?
I am actually going the opposite.. a "clip wing" Dragonfly with Q2 fuselage and vertical surfaces.
I will measure the mass at the same place in build just have a base measurement of structure
over or under the "average".
I suspect my aircraft is already to the heavy side but that is based on the MKII Dragonfly Canard, which
includes extra plies in the layup schedule. I will also be deleting the stubby fiberglas gear stubs and
installing a steel spring tapered tube Wittman main gear to the engine mount. That should also add
Robert---------- My empty weight is 749. The firewall forward is
256 plus abut 10lbs for the cowl. The 18 lb battery is in the back, plus
the rad and the gallon and half of coolant. Doing the math I am probably
over 440. I do have the steel inboard landing gear and 18 inches more
span on both the wing and canard. I also had to install 14 lbs in the
tail area to get proper CG.
Take care------------ Chris
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Bruce Crain
Don’t I know it! How did I get to be 68 years old? Still good lookin’ but it takes a lot longer to get that way! 🤣
On Sep 22, 2022, at 1:01 PM, Jim Patillo <logistics_engineering@...> wrote:
Bruce as you know,
There are those who will not, those who may and those who will. Pick one. Time goes by fast🫵👍
Jim
N46JP Q200
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2022 8:26:10 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] What is a Quick Drag?
How long have you been building Vern? I suspect you just might give Jay a “run for the money” on build time. Jay has a wonderful TriQ 200+ but a lot of our hair turned grey in the mean time.
Bruce
On Sep 22, 2022, at 8:50 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:
Good points, Vern. Staying within ones comfort zone is a good thing, and also staying within the limits of what has already been done/proven and is well documented (ie. origianl plans and Q-talk) is essential if you are a novice builder.
Sounds like strange advice coming from me.
😉
Cheers,
Jay
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Frankenbird Vern
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2022 5:36 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] What is a Quick Drag?
The spar of the Dragonfly build, and I didn't have a spar with the Q2 items I purchased. I have a set of both Dragonfly and Q2 design packages.
The other reason Frankenbird became closer to reality is a set of very well constructed surfaces became available for less than what the raw materials would cost to build. Similar deal on
the Q2 fuselage. What I purchased was pieced out "kit" but with all the history and sale invoices.
What I am doing something I would NOT recommend to a first time builder at all!! NOT! We have a saying in the aircraft M.E. world.. Pioneers are the FIRST to catch the arrows!
All in so far I have less than $2,200 in the airframe. My engine will be in the area of about $8,500 (zero time Corvair WW conversion and I have a deep background in engine build and overhaul,
including the Corvair flat 6). I plan to stay VFR and the panel will reflect that. I am an old timer that still uses a slide rule E6B. No batteries included.
That is how I fly also..like a chicken. I can't remember a time I felt more uncomfortable than when I was VFR between layers. I did that ONCE in a familiar area in a highly equipped rental
Piper Warrior that was almost new at the time. My instructor at the time was a hard ass old airforce instructor and his C152 was IFR.
I had my Private ticket sign off in less than 40 hours, so to run off the time I had a lot of PAR practice at Jacksonville AFB and actual IFR in the clouds with Fitz. Not to say I am qualified
IFR, only that I learned my limits. I also knew that by the time I reached North Little Rock where I lived then, the layers would clear (FSS was live then). Ironically at the time I was over Tulsa and was being vectored by them. I live not too far from Tulsa
now.
The name Frankenbird is going to stay in my case because of course it is well named. That also and the fact that I am of German and Swiss heritage (German Grandfather and Swiss on my Mom's
side of the family). I am building a Bavarian style mother-in-law sized cottage complete with the exterior trim on our property in Oklahoma. The 48 X 25 hangar also in process but it is a usual design.
My wife holds both Russian and American citizenships, and Russians have a deep love/hate relationship with Germany...it fits well in our marriage
🙂 Remember the angry crowd in the old movie where they are going up the hill to fry poor ol Franky while he is
growling and trying to fend off the flaming torches??...that is what happens when Lara gets angry at me. Thus..it is important I complete the Bavarian style Cottage as soon as possible!!!
Another factor is I have been in the professional side of aircraft construction for most of my life, and about 1/3 of that time in Composites build. Also have been in both Shop and Engineering
job roles. Not just in large factories, but MRO and Repair Stations (larger businesses, with advanced composites manufacturing equipment such as Nordam NTR/Gulfstream).
Chris and Vern,
This may have been discussed before, but just curious as to why each of you has chosen a hybrid - aka "Quick Drag" "Q2 Fly" or "Dragon Q2"
Terry
DF Mk1
N41521
On 9/21/2022 8:31 AM, Frankenbird Vern wrote:
Chris.. you have a Dragonfly Canard and Wing, or did you extend the span on both Q design surfaces?
I am actually going the opposite.. a "clip wing" Dragonfly with Q2 fuselage and vertical surfaces.
I will measure the mass at the same place in build just have a base measurement of structure
over or under the "average".
I suspect my aircraft is already to the heavy side but that is based on the MKII Dragonfly Canard, which
includes extra plies in the layup schedule. I will also be deleting the stubby fiberglas gear stubs and
installing a steel spring tapered tube Wittman main gear to the engine mount. That should also add
Robert---------- My empty weight is 749. The firewall forward is
256 plus abut 10lbs for the cowl. The 18 lb battery is in the back, plus
the rad and the gallon and half of coolant. Doing the math I am probably
over 440. I do have the steel inboard landing gear and 18 inches more
span on both the wing and canard. I also had to install 14 lbs in the
tail area to get proper CG.
Take care------------ Chris
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WOW!!! That is a VERY large number. Had Joanne even started elementary school when you were graduating?!?!?! 😉😇 Jon Finley Flying an RV-4 - Truth or Consequences, NM Flying Videos - YouTube
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Bruce Crain
Hey! Looks can be deceiving! I take awful good care o’ dat girl! How old does she look anyway. 🙃
On Sep 23, 2022, at 2:16 PM, Jon Finley <jd@...> wrote:
WOW!!! That is a VERY large number. Had Joanne even started elementary school when you were graduating?!?!?! 😉😇 Jon Finley Flying an RV-4 - Truth or Consequences, NM Flying Videos - YouTube
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Stephen Theron
Good Afternoon to the Quickie Group
My name is Stephen Theron from South Africa. I’m restoring a Tri Quickie that was standing for 23 years.
I will be visiting in the Boynton Beach area next week and it would be nice to meet someone close by so I may have a look at your Quickie. Please let me know if anyone is available.
Thank you
Stephen Theron
steviet888@...
+27 84 699 1684 WhatsApp.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Frankenbird Vern <smeshno1@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2022 11:42:06 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] What is a Quick Drag?
First parts procured in 2006. Las Vegas Nevada in the Luxor Parking lot.
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2022 10:26 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] What is a Quick Drag?
How long have you been building Vern? I suspect you just might give Jay a “run for the money” on build time. Jay has a wonderful TriQ 200+ but a lot of our hair turned grey in the mean time.
Bruce
On Sep 22, 2022, at 8:50 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:
Good points, Vern. Staying within ones comfort zone is a good thing, and also staying within the limits of what has already been done/proven and is well documented (ie. origianl plans and Q-talk) is essential if you are a novice builder.
Sounds like strange advice coming from me.
😉
Cheers,
Jay
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Frankenbird Vern
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2022 5:36 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] What is a Quick Drag?
The spar of the Dragonfly build, and I didn't have a spar with the Q2 items I purchased. I have a set of both Dragonfly and Q2 design packages.
The other reason Frankenbird became closer to reality is a set of very well constructed surfaces became available for less than what the raw materials would cost to build. Similar deal on
the Q2 fuselage. What I purchased was pieced out "kit" but with all the history and sale invoices.
What I am doing something I would NOT recommend to a first time builder at all!! NOT! We have a saying in the aircraft M.E. world.. Pioneers are the FIRST to catch the arrows!
All in so far I have less than $2,200 in the airframe. My engine will be in the area of about $8,500 (zero time Corvair WW conversion and I have a deep background in engine build and overhaul,
including the Corvair flat 6). I plan to stay VFR and the panel will reflect that. I am an old timer that still uses a slide rule E6B. No batteries included.
That is how I fly also..like a chicken. I can't remember a time I felt more uncomfortable than when I was VFR between layers. I did that ONCE in a familiar area in a highly equipped rental
Piper Warrior that was almost new at the time. My instructor at the time was a hard ass old airforce instructor and his C152 was IFR.
I had my Private ticket sign off in less than 40 hours, so to run off the time I had a lot of PAR practice at Jacksonville AFB and actual IFR in the clouds with Fitz. Not to say I am qualified
IFR, only that I learned my limits. I also knew that by the time I reached North Little Rock where I lived then, the layers would clear (FSS was live then). Ironically at the time I was over Tulsa and was being vectored by them. I live not too far from Tulsa
now.
The name Frankenbird is going to stay in my case because of course it is well named. That also and the fact that I am of German and Swiss heritage (German Grandfather and Swiss on my Mom's
side of the family). I am building a Bavarian style mother-in-law sized cottage complete with the exterior trim on our property in Oklahoma. The 48 X 25 hangar also in process but it is a usual design.
My wife holds both Russian and American citizenships, and Russians have a deep love/hate relationship with Germany...it fits well in our marriage
🙂 Remember the angry crowd in the old movie where they are going up the hill to fry poor ol Franky while he is
growling and trying to fend off the flaming torches??...that is what happens when Lara gets angry at me. Thus..it is important I complete the Bavarian style Cottage as soon as possible!!!
Another factor is I have been in the professional side of aircraft construction for most of my life, and about 1/3 of that time in Composites build. Also have been in both Shop and Engineering
job roles. Not just in large factories, but MRO and Repair Stations (larger businesses, with advanced composites manufacturing equipment such as Nordam NTR/Gulfstream).
Chris and Vern,
This may have been discussed before, but just curious as to why each of you has chosen a hybrid - aka "Quick Drag" "Q2 Fly" or "Dragon Q2"
Terry
DF Mk1
N41521
On 9/21/2022 8:31 AM, Frankenbird Vern wrote:
Chris.. you have a Dragonfly Canard and Wing, or did you extend the span on both Q design surfaces?
I am actually going the opposite.. a "clip wing" Dragonfly with Q2 fuselage and vertical surfaces.
I will measure the mass at the same place in build just have a base measurement of structure
over or under the "average".
I suspect my aircraft is already to the heavy side but that is based on the MKII Dragonfly Canard, which
includes extra plies in the layup schedule. I will also be deleting the stubby fiberglas gear stubs and
installing a steel spring tapered tube Wittman main gear to the engine mount. That should also add
Robert---------- My empty weight is 749. The firewall forward is
256 plus abut 10lbs for the cowl. The 18 lb battery is in the back, plus
the rad and the gallon and half of coolant. Doing the math I am probably
over 440. I do have the steel inboard landing gear and 18 inches more
span on both the wing and canard. I also had to install 14 lbs in the
tail area to get proper CG.
Take care------------ Chris
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Jay Scheevel
I think that Kevin Sheely lives in that area. He has a standard tail dragger Q200. Cheers, Jay
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Stephen Theron Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 8:12 AM To: main@Q-List.groups.io Subject: Re: [Q-List] What is a Quick Drag? Good Afternoon to the Quickie Group My name is Stephen Theron from South Africa. I’m restoring a Tri Quickie that was standing for 23 years. I will be visiting in the Boynton Beach area next week and it would be nice to meet someone close by so I may have a look at your Quickie. Please let me know if anyone is available. +27 84 699 1684 WhatsApp.
First parts procured in 2006. Las Vegas Nevada in the Luxor Parking lot.
How long have you been building Vern? I suspect you just might give Jay a “run for the money” on build time. Jay has a wonderful TriQ 200+ but a lot of our hair turned grey in the mean time. Bruce
On Sep 22, 2022, at 8:50 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:
Good points, Vern. Staying within ones comfort zone is a good thing, and also staying within the limits of what has already been done/proven and is well documented (ie. origianl plans and Q-talk) is essential if you are a novice builder. Sounds like strange advice coming from me. 😉 Cheers, Jay The spar of the Dragonfly build, and I didn't have a spar with the Q2 items I purchased. I have a set of both Dragonfly and Q2 design packages. The other reason Frankenbird became closer to reality is a set of very well constructed surfaces became available for less than what the raw materials would cost to build. Similar deal on the Q2 fuselage. What I purchased was pieced out "kit" but with all the history and sale invoices. What I am doing something I would NOT recommend to a first time builder at all!! NOT! We have a saying in the aircraft M.E. world.. Pioneers are the FIRST to catch the arrows! All in so far I have less than $2,200 in the airframe. My engine will be in the area of about $8,500 (zero time Corvair WW conversion and I have a deep background in engine build and overhaul, including the Corvair flat 6). I plan to stay VFR and the panel will reflect that. I am an old timer that still uses a slide rule E6B. No batteries included. That is how I fly also..like a chicken. I can't remember a time I felt more uncomfortable than when I was VFR between layers. I did that ONCE in a familiar area in a highly equipped rental Piper Warrior that was almost new at the time. My instructor at the time was a hard ass old airforce instructor and his C152 was IFR. I had my Private ticket sign off in less than 40 hours, so to run off the time I had a lot of PAR practice at Jacksonville AFB and actual IFR in the clouds with Fitz. Not to say I am qualified IFR, only that I learned my limits. I also knew that by the time I reached North Little Rock where I lived then, the layers would clear (FSS was live then). Ironically at the time I was over Tulsa and was being vectored by them. I live not too far from Tulsa now. The name Frankenbird is going to stay in my case because of course it is well named. That also and the fact that I am of German and Swiss heritage (German Grandfather and Swiss on my Mom's side of the family). I am building a Bavarian style mother-in-law sized cottage complete with the exterior trim on our property in Oklahoma. The 48 X 25 hangar also in process but it is a usual design. My wife holds both Russian and American citizenships, and Russians have a deep love/hate relationship with Germany...it fits well in our marriage 🙂 Remember the angry crowd in the old movie where they are going up the hill to fry poor ol Franky while he is growling and trying to fend off the flaming torches??...that is what happens when Lara gets angry at me. Thus..it is important I complete the Bavarian style Cottage as soon as possible!!! Another factor is I have been in the professional side of aircraft construction for most of my life, and about 1/3 of that time in Composites build. Also have been in both Shop and Engineering job roles. Not just in large factories, but MRO and Repair Stations (larger businesses, with advanced composites manufacturing equipment such as Nordam NTR/Gulfstream).
Chris and Vern,
This may have been discussed before, but just curious as to why each of you has chosen a hybrid - aka "Quick Drag" "Q2 Fly" or "Dragon Q2"
Terry
DF Mk1
N41521 On 9/21/2022 8:31 AM, Frankenbird Vern wrote: Chris.. you have a Dragonfly Canard and Wing, or did you extend the span on both Q design surfaces? I am actually going the opposite.. a "clip wing" Dragonfly with Q2 fuselage and vertical surfaces. I will measure the mass at the same place in build just have a base measurement of structure over or under the "average". I suspect my aircraft is already to the heavy side but that is based on the MKII Dragonfly Canard, which includes extra plies in the layup schedule. I will also be deleting the stubby fiberglas gear stubs and installing a steel spring tapered tube Wittman main gear to the engine mount. That should also add
Robert---------- My empty weight is 749. The firewall forward is
256 plus abut 10lbs for the cowl. The 18 lb battery is in the back, plus
the rad and the gallon and half of coolant. Doing the math I am probably
over 440. I do have the steel inboard landing gear and 18 inches more
span on both the wing and canard. I also had to install 14 lbs in the
tail area to get proper CG.
Take care------------ Chris
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