Airport Operations at Commercial airports
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Mike Dwyer
Hi All, Do any of you own/rent hangars at USA airports that have Scheduled airlines? If so, I'd like to know how your airport handles TSA Badge requirements. KPIE started charging a $20 a year badge fee and makes us take a TSA test on driving airport tugs and reporting bags that are left laying around... none of which we have at the General Aviation hangars! The badge manager and I had a discussion. He believes that all pilots flying have some sort of training and badges that allow them to walk on the ramp. I told him that I could fly into any airport in the country and I don't need no stinking badge! LOL. Thanks, Mike Dwyer Q200 YouTube Videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/FlyMeAirplane/videos Q200 Website: http://goo.gl/V8IrJF
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Hi Mike,
I test flew my plane at the local commercial airport with its 10,000’X150’ runway. I bunked in another guy’s hangar until I got proficient enough to move back to my home grassroots field. I had to get a TSA approved badge to be on the field inside the fence even though I entered and exited through the GA portion of the field.
I understand that individual airport management have some latitude as to how they handle this, and some choose to designate only certain portions as TSA secure areas. In those areas you need a badge if you exit the airplane. I did not stick around long enough to become an expert on that. I like life simple: No tower, no commercial flights, no hassle, no landing fees, etc.
Cheers,
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Dwyer
Sent: Thursday, January 6, 2022 9:27 AM To: Q_List <Q-List@groups.io> Subject: [Q-List] Airport Operations at Commercial airports
Hi All, Do any of you own/rent hangars at USA airports that have Scheduled airlines?
If so, I'd like to know how your airport handles TSA Badge requirements.
KPIE started charging a $20 a year badge fee and makes us take a TSA test on driving airport tugs and reporting bags that are left laying around... none of which we have at the General Aviation hangars!
The badge manager and I had a discussion. He believes that all pilots flying have some sort of training and badges that allow them to walk on the ramp. I told him that I could fly into any airport in the country and I don't need no stinking badge! LOL.
Thanks, Mike Dwyer Q200
YouTube Videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/FlyMeAirplane/videos Q200 Website: http://goo.gl/V8IrJF
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Mike,
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Here is KOGD info it is a pain and Ogden City hates general aviation pilots and hangar owners.
On Thursday, January 6, 2022, 9:27 AM, Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...> wrote:
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New regulations for hangar use at KOGD proof city hates GA pilots and builders.
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POLICY 2040 NONAERONAUTICAL USE OF AIRPORT HANGARS
On Thursday, January 6, 2022, 10:05 AM, One Sky Dog via groups.io <Oneskydog@...> wrote:
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Paul Fisher
I don't live on an airport with air carrier services, but I know a few people who live at the class C airport across the river. Seems like $20 is the number they talk about, and yes I think they have to take some training to get their badge. So it sounds similar to what you have. They have cheaper gas at the big airport (seems wierd, but they do!), so I go there from time to time to get gas. I don't need a badge as long as I stick close to my plane. If I wandered around the hangars someone might get suspicious. So far I've never had a problem. Paul
On Thu, Jan 6, 2022, 10:27 Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...> wrote:
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Jerry Marstall
Mike's you are going to lose this battle. Here in KAVL we have had badges for decades. $20 is a bargain. With the badge we can drive to our hangars. Training course is mandatory and enforced. Adapt - unfortunately this is our present world - thanks to the terrorists. Jerry.
On Thu, Jan 6, 2022, 11:27 AM Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...> wrote:
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Ryszard Zadow
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On Jan 6, 2022, at 12:14, One Sky Dog via groups.io <Oneskydog@...> wrote:
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Terry Adams
KSCK two year $20 photo badge must be visible at all times. Mine is in my truck, never been stopped in 15 years.
And when I fly into other restricted airports I dial the posted gate number to access my plane. Another government failure.
The KSCK airport has a broken drive thru access gate to our hangers. Rather than fix the gate, the county has been paying for a 24 hour guard for the last 14 months
Samsung Galaxy Note 10+
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Ryszard Zadow <ryszardzadow@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 6, 2022 9:19:11 AM To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io> Cc: Q_List <Q-List@groups.io> Subject: Re: [Q-List] Airport Operations at Commercial airports On Jan 6, 2022, at 12:14, One Sky Dog via groups.io <Oneskydog@...> wrote:
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I am required to have background check and badge to enter the prison that we minister. Are pilots now considered "Terrorists"? Probably thanks to 911 and other attacks. And the border is porous so....
My 2 cents.
Bruce
---------- Original Message ---------- From: "Ryszard Zadow" <ryszardzadow@...> To: main@q-list.groups.io Cc: Q_List <Q-List@groups.io> Subject: Re: [Q-List] Airport Operations at Commercial airports Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2022 12:19:11 -0500 On Jan 6, 2022, at 12:14, One Sky Dog via groups.io <Oneskydog@...> wrote:
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Mike Dwyer
Thanks to all that replied. So obviously we've just let the Government save us and now we have to put up with this crap. I'd suggest everyone write their congressmen and senators to eliminate or reduce the power of the TSA. What I see right now is all these airports just going along with whatever the TSA wants them to do because it's easier than pushing back on the TSA. Thanks, Mike Dwyer YouTube Videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/FlyMeAirplane/videos Q200 Website: http://goo.gl/V8IrJF
On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 2:16 PM Bruce Crain <jcrain2@...> wrote:
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Do you need to have the badge to exit the prison? 😊
Sorry, could not resist.
Cheers, Jay
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Crain
Sent: Thursday, January 6, 2022 12:14 PM To: main@Q-List.groups.io Subject: Re: [Q-List] Airport Operations at Commercial airports
I am required to have background check and badge to enter the prison that we minister. Are pilots now considered "Terrorists"? Probably thanks to 911 and other attacks. And the border is porous so.... My 2 cents. Bruce
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Jay,
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Yes you need the badge to open the get to get out at Ogden but they dropped making you enter your PIN number to get out. You need the badge and secret PIN number to get in.
On Thursday, January 6, 2022, 1:17 PM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:
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Interesting.. so what happens to the 1 year limit inoperable, Charlie? Chop it up and truck it off to the dump? You remember some years ago when a ton of money was flowing into the renovation of airports in order to "stimulate" the economy? The airports were
forced to take the funds even when the airport managers were saying (in my area anyway..and that would be Pouge Sand Springs and Alva Municipal specifically) that any "renovations" were totally not required.
I remember asking about this when visiting the fields as a search for a home FBO base, and the managers were actually laughing at the idiocy of the money being forced on them regardless of the facts they repeatedly showed proof no improvements OR upgrades
were required at the time at those GA airport. Now we see the strings attached to the money. The government is here once again to help us.
By the way..my opinion is Pilots are among the most educated of peoples. I can't think of many other activities where risk is NOT ONLY to ourselves, but those below. By nature we are already in a protective mode of our own "turf", and especially when considering
the aircraft represent a sizable dollar and time outlay.
Recently I was at Paine Field (KPAE). Its pretty difficult to get a more critical airfield than that one. It is Commercial Airline, GA, and Boeing Delivery INCLUDING military operations. Similar to Tulsa International in fact. I have flown as PIC from both
airport many times in the past. There is a passcode to access the gate for GA access. The pilots entering monitor anyone trying to piggyback in. No one enters without being questioned to the hilt OR they have passcode. Even then I suspect an unknown person
would be challenged!
Same as I did when I went to work at Boeing on the 767 Tanker every work day last October. We did not "hold the door" for anyone. No passcode..no entry.
No pilot was wearing badges at Paine Field that I observed, nor was required to that I heard.
What a stupid requirement, and it has nothing to do with gaining hangar space. If it is part of the ever expanding TSA garbage, do the D.C. idiots forcing this mandate think somehow an organized terrorist group can't forge a badge? Better to have the pilots
themselves police GA as I observed personally at KPAE. The only other conclusion is Charlie is correct. Cut out the private GA folks as much as possible, then piss and moan why there are fewer younger pilots and mechanics to support aviation of all kinds.
Vern.
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of One Sky Dog via groups.io <Oneskydog@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 6, 2022 11:14 AM To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>; Q_List <Q-List@groups.io> Subject: Re: [Q-List] Airport Operations at Commercial airports New regulations for hangar use at KOGD proof city hates GA pilots and builders.
POLICY 2040 NONAERONAUTICAL USE OF AIRPORT HANGARS
My you tube channel
On Thursday, January 6, 2022, 10:05 AM, One Sky Dog via groups.io <Oneskydog@...> wrote:
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David J. Gall
“The badge manager and I had a discussion. He believes that all pilots flying have some sort of training and badges that allow them to walk on the ramp.”
Your badge manager CLEARLY failed the TSA training he’s supposed to have attended. Please tell this bozo that the whole intent of the TSA training is to ENLIST the pilot population as ALLIES in surveillance, not to alienate them and cause resentment. Pilots are not “allowed” to walk on the ramp – pilots are EXPECTED to walk on the ramp and REPORT suspicious activity, not BE suspects in the eyes of the local autocrats. Sheesh. And a course on baggage handling and tug driving is for baggage handlers and tug drivers, not pilots. Double-sheesh!!
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mike Dwyer
Sent: Thursday, January 6, 2022 8:27 AM To: Q_List <Q-List@groups.io> Subject: [Q-List] Airport Operations at Commercial airports
Hi All, Do any of you own/rent hangars at USA airports that have Scheduled airlines?
If so, I'd like to know how your airport handles TSA Badge requirements.
KPIE started charging a $20 a year badge fee and makes us take a TSA test on driving airport tugs and reporting bags that are left laying around... none of which we have at the General Aviation hangars!
The badge manager and I had a discussion. He believes that all pilots flying have some sort of training and badges that allow them to walk on the ramp. I told him that I could fly into any airport in the country and I don't need no stinking badge! LOL.
Thanks, Mike Dwyer Q200
YouTube Videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/FlyMeAirplane/videos Q200 Website: http://goo.gl/V8IrJF
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Rick Hole
Before I retired in 2016 my home base was Sebastian, Florida (at Velocity). Badges had been required for years. Passcodes at the gates. Pilot were expected to report anything suspicious. I was in a T-hanger when an unknown car and person drive up to the gate, went to his trunk and removed an old stop sign with a tether road, tossed it under the gate to trigger the exit-open and drove through. I called the local police and did not approach the guy. Police first spoke to me, then to him. Later they told me he had a pilot license and with 15 minutes of search was able to find and show them his badge. I supposed throwing a stop sign must have been more convenient than remembering his passcode. Rick Hole
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I had a friend whose dad used to say that locks are to keep honest people out. Terrorists tend to find a way to terrorize.
My solution to air travel security after 9/11 was to have a rack of single shot pistols at the boarding door of the plane, then issue one to each adult as they walk onto the plane, and collect them at the other end. Basically, the plane is going to go where everyone on board wants it to go. Any minority opinions would be greatly discouraged.
Of course, this recommendation never really caught on…. But it would have been cheaper than an entire government agency.
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rick Hole via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, January 6, 2022 4:12 PM To: main@Q-List.groups.io Subject: Re: [Q-List] Airport Operations at Commercial airports
Before I retired in 2016 my home base was Sebastian, Florida (at Velocity). Badges had been required for years. Passcodes at the gates. Pilot were expected to report anything suspicious. I was in a T-hanger when an unknown car and person drive up to the gate, went to his trunk and removed an old stop sign with a tether road, tossed it under the gate to trigger the exit-open and drove through. I called the local police and did not approach the guy. Police first spoke to me, then to him. Later they told me he had a pilot license and with 15 minutes of search was able to find and show them his badge. I supposed throwing a stop sign must have been more convenient than remembering his passcode. Rick Hole
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Paul Fisher
Interesting Jay, that was Archie Bunker's idea to solve the problem of people hijacking planes to Cuba so many years ago!
On Thu, Jan 6, 2022, 17:27 Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:
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My Dad and I had a friend, now passed, who was a United Airlines pilot after mustering out of the Army Air Corps as bomber pilot. He said he and all the other WWII pilots at United wore sidearms on commercial flights. I asked why. He said they just felt like it was part of the uniform, since flight officers carried sidearms as part of their kit during the war. I asked when the airline asked them to stop doing that. He said “around 1965”. That was about the time that airlines started being hijacked. Hmmm…
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul Fisher
Sent: Thursday, January 6, 2022 4:33 PM To: main@q-list.groups.io Subject: Re: [Q-List] Airport Operations at Commercial airports
Interesting Jay, that was Archie Bunker's idea to solve the problem of people hijacking planes to Cuba so many years ago!
On Thu, Jan 6, 2022, 17:27 Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:
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Michael Dunning
Hangar at KHSV...big airport, big runways (feel free to check).
Initial training on airport security and ground operations (aka please don't drive your car into an airliner) => initial badge. Badge expires every 12 calendar months with a 30 day leeway. If you fill out the 1 page renewal form within that timespan, you can just email the form to the security manager and then go stop by and pick up your new badge + ramp sticker (never stuck it). I let it fully lapse the first year and had to retake the training. At least here our badges are free and the gate works off a fancy RFID chip embedded in the badge, so no passcodes. -- -MD #2827 (still thinking about planning on visualizing how to finish building)
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Anthony P
I need a badge and PIN at KBED. It's mainly business/private charter there. Commercial flight once in a blue moon.
I didn't need the training for driving in the non-movement areas or ramp because I do not have that level of authorization from my sponsor, which is the aero club. Early in my training it was ok to be escorted by my CFI. If you fly in and stay on the ramp, you don't need one. If you want to go through an FBO to rental cars or taxi, you need a special escort from the FBO. They do have TSA agents at the main building/entrance and a carry-on x-ray machine. Saying any more would constitute a breach of my agreement with the port authority, the state police, TSA, and probably Dept. of Home Land Security. BUT, after 7 months, the FAA finally recognizes me as the owner of a Quickie!!! And for that, I'm very happy. -- Q2 N86KL
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