Alt Field Circuit Breaker Popping


Bob Malechek
 

Over the years I have seen Two 5 amp breakers fail and lead me down paths of no return. Just install a factory new breaker and see if that fixes it. It did for me and Tom Moore. 

Bob Malechek. 


On Jul 29, 2019, at 2:44 PM, 'Rick Hole' r.hole@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

With breaker removed, Measure the resistance across the two terminals.  Breaker in= 0 ohms.  Breaker pulled= infinite ohms.

Ideally you would rig a rest with a DC power source, breaker, and load resistor.  Dial up 50 amps.  The breaker should hold.  Dial up higher, perhaps 60 or 70 amps, the breaker should trip within a minute.  

Or test without disconnecting the breaker.  Engine not running, Turn bus on, breaker button pushed IN.  Read battery voltage on both terminals.  Button pulled, battery voltage only one terminal, 0 volts on the other

 

Rick Hole

 

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 11:30 AM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Alt Field Circuit Breaker Popping

 

 

Update:  I’ve located a 50amp breaker labeled MAIN.  I turned on Master, electronics come on, and then I pulled the 50amp breaker.  Nothing turned off.  I’ve removed the breaker and would like to know how to test to confirm if it’s working or not.  

 

Should all electronics turn off if I pulled the MAIN breaker?

Corbin


On Jul 29, 2019, at 11:59 AM, Rick Hole r.hole@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

An open alternator output, for example 50a breaker tripped or disconnected wire could cause the field breaker to blow only if the regulator suppling full voltage to the field draws enough current to trip the 5a field breaker. This should not be possible but if the 5a breaker is old and tired and, say, tripping at 3a your could see it trip. I have never seen this happen though. 

Don’t overlook wire fault as a cause, insulation worn through and he wire touching something grounded etc. 

Rick Hole

Email: r.hole@...


On Jul 29, 2019, at 10:23 AM, q2pilot@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Ok, great news.

 

Now disconnect the Field wire from the back of the alternator and leave hanging.

Does the 5A break still blow?  If it does it's a bad regulator.  If it doesn't blow now, then we may have a shorted field in the alternator.

 

: )

Mike

 


Rick Hole
 

I often take it on the master solenoid or on the panel cig lighter. If those are inconvenient try the battery + post as long as the master switch is on

Sonia and Rick Hole
Email: r.hole@...

On Jul 29, 2019, at 2:34 PM, Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

This sounds easy to test.....where on bus should I test voltage from?  I am not familiar with working with the bus.  Do I just place the probe anywhere on a good contact along bus?

Corbin Ge!ser

On July 29, 2019 at 2:50 PM, "'Rick Hole' r.hole@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 


The easiest test for a functioning alternator is to read the voltage on the 12V bus.  The battery without alternator will be 12.6 volts or less.  A functioning alternator will show more than 12.6 volts.  Normally the voltage regulator will adjust the field current to produce 13.8v with an automotive regulator and possibly as high as 14.4v with an aircraft regulator.

 

The engine must be running for the alternator to produce power, and may not produce full power at less than about 1600 RPMs.

 

Rick Hole

 

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 12:44 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Alt Field Circuit Breaker Popping

 

 

50 amp breaker is handling the current out from the alternator. It is only active when the alternator is spinning otherwise current from the alternator is zero. Battery charge plus electric items is probably 35 amps right after takeoff. If engine is not turning or field voltage is zero, then all current is coming from the battery.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID



"Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Update:  I’ve located a 50amp breaker labeled MAIN.  I turned on Master, electronics come on, and then I pulled the 50amp breaker.  Nothing turned off.  I’ve removed the breaker and would like to know how to test to confirm if it’s working or not.  

 

Should all electronics turn off if I pulled the MAIN breaker?

Corbin


On Jul 29, 2019, at 11:59 AM, Rick Hole r.hole@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

An open alternator output, for example 50a breaker tripped or disconnected wire could cause the field breaker to blow only if the regulator suppling full voltage to the field draws enough current to trip the 5a field breaker. This should not be possible but if the 5a breaker is old and tired and, say, tripping at 3a your could see it trip. I have never seen this happen though. 

Don’t overlook wire fault as a cause, insulation worn through and he wire touching something grounded etc. 

Rick Hole

Email: r.hole@...


On Jul 29, 2019, at 10:23 AM, q2pilot@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Ok, great news.

 

Now disconnect the Field wire from the back of the alternator and leave hanging.

Does the 5A break still blow?  If it does it's a bad regulator.  If it doesn't blow now, then we may have a shorted field in the alternator.

 

: )

Mike

 





Corbin Geiser <c_geiser@...>
 

Thanks!  I plan on doing this tomorrow.  I found a buddy that has a new PP voltage regulator and some 5 amp breakers.

I’ll replace the breaker and if that doesn’t stop it from popping then I’ll swap the voltage regulator.

Corbin

On Jul 29, 2019, at 4:46 PM, Rick Hole r.hole@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

I often take it on the master solenoid or on the panel cig lighter.. If those are inconvenient try the battery + post as long as the master switch is on

Sonia and Rick Hole
Email: r.hole@...

On Jul 29, 2019, at 2:34 PM, Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

This sounds easy to test.....where on bus should I test voltage from?  I am not familiar with working with the bus.  Do I just place the probe anywhere on a good contact along bus?

Corbin Ge!ser

On July 29, 2019 at 2:50 PM, "'Rick Hole' r.hole@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 


The easiest test for a functioning alternator is to read the voltage on the 12V bus.  The battery without alternator will be 12.6 volts or less.  A functioning alternator will show more than 12.6 volts.  Normally the voltage regulator will adjust the field current to produce 13.8v with an automotive regulator and possibly as high as 14.4v with an aircraft regulator.

 

The engine must be running for the alternator to produce power, and may not produce full power at less than about 1600 RPMs.

 

Rick Hole

 

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 12:44 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Alt Field Circuit Breaker Popping

 

 

50 amp breaker is handling the current out from the alternator. It is only active when the alternator is spinning otherwise current from the alternator is zero. Battery charge plus electric items is probably 35 amps right after takeoff. If engine is not turning or field voltage is zero, then all current is coming from the battery.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID



"Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Update:  I’ve located a 50amp breaker labeled MAIN.  I turned on Master, electronics come on, and then I pulled the 50amp breaker.  Nothing turned off.  I’ve removed the breaker and would like to know how to test to confirm if it’s working or not.  

 

Should all electronics turn off if I pulled the MAIN breaker?

Corbin


On Jul 29, 2019, at 11:59 AM, Rick Hole r.hole@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

An open alternator output, for example 50a breaker tripped or disconnected wire could cause the field breaker to blow only if the regulator suppling full voltage to the field draws enough current to trip the 5a field breaker. This should not be possible but if the 5a breaker is old and tired and, say, tripping at 3a your could see it trip. I have never seen this happen though. 

Don’t overlook wire fault as a cause, insulation worn through and he wire touching something grounded etc. 

Rick Hole

Email: r.hole@...


On Jul 29, 2019, at 10:23 AM, q2pilot@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Ok, great news.

 

Now disconnect the Field wire from the back of the alternator and leave hanging.

Does the 5A break still blow?  If it does it's a bad regulator.  If it doesn't blow now, then we may have a shorted field in the alternator.

 

: )

Mike

 





Corbin Geiser <c_geiser@...>
 

Just an update on the alternator field issue.  I replaced the 5 amp breaker but that didn't fix it.  My buddy that has a PP voltage regulator had the 28 volt version and not the 14 volt.

I am going to pull the engine off again this afternoon and run a wire from the Field term, on back of Alternator, to the back of the 5 amp breaker.  If it doesn't pop then I guess the problem is between breaker, voltage regulator, and firewall.


Corbin Ge!ser

On July 29, 2019 at 7:41 PM, "Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST]" wrote:

 

Thanks!  I plan on doing this tomorrow.  I found a buddy that has a new PP voltage regulator and some 5 amp breakers.


I’ll replace the breaker and if that doesn’t stop it from popping then I’ll swap the voltage regulator.

Corbin

On Jul 29, 2019, at 4:46 PM, Rick Hole r.hole@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

I often take it on the master solenoid or on the panel cig lighter... If those are inconvenient try the battery + post as long as the master switch is on

Sonia and Rick Hole
Email: r.hole@...

On Jul 29, 2019, at 2:34 PM, Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 


This sounds easy to test.....where on bus should I test voltage from?  I am not familiar with working with the bus.  Do I just place the probe anywhere on a good contact along bus?

Corbin Ge!ser

On July 29, 2019 at 2:50 PM, "'Rick Hole' r.hole@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 


The easiest test for a functioning alternator is to read the voltage on the 12V bus.  The battery without alternator will be 12.6 volts or less.  A functioning alternator will show more than 12.6 volts.  Normally the voltage regulator will adjust the field current to produce 13.8v with an automotive regulator and possibly as high as 14.4v with an aircraft regulator.

 

The engine must be running for the alternator to produce power, and may not produce full power at less than about 1600 RPMs.

 

Rick Hole

 

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 12:44 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Alt Field Circuit Breaker Popping

 

 

50 amp breaker is handling the current out from the alternator. It is only active when the alternator is spinning otherwise current from the alternator is zero. Battery charge plus electric items is probably 35 amps right after takeoff. If engine is not turning or field voltage is zero, then all current is coming from the battery.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID



"Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Update:  I’ve located a 50amp breaker labeled MAIN.  I turned on Master, electronics come on, and then I pulled the 50amp breaker.  Nothing turned off.  I’ve removed the breaker and would like to know how to test to confirm if it’s working or not.  

 

Should all electronics turn off if I pulled the MAIN breaker?

Corbin


On Jul 29, 2019, at 11:59 AM, Rick Hole r.hole@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

An open alternator output, for example 50a breaker tripped or disconnected wire could cause the field breaker to blow only if the regulator suppling full voltage to the field draws enough current to trip the 5a field breaker. This should not be possible but if the 5a breaker is old and tired and, say, tripping at 3a your could see it trip. I have never seen this happen though. 

Don’t overlook wire fault as a cause, insulation worn through and he wire touching something grounded etc. 

Rick Hole

Email: r.hole@...


On Jul 29, 2019, at 10:23 AM, q2pilot@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Ok, great news.

 

Now disconnect the Field wire from the back of the alternator and leave hanging.

Does the 5A break still blow?  If it does it's a bad regulator.  If it doesn't blow now, then we may have a shorted field in the alternator.

 

: )

Mike

 









Rick Hole
 

I have seen frayed wires cause similar problems

Sonia and Rick Hole
Email: r.hole@...

On Jul 30, 2019, at 1:30 PM, Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Just an update on the alternator field issue.  I replaced the 5 amp breaker but that didn't fix it.  My buddy that has a PP voltage regulator had the 28 volt version and not the 14 volt.

I am going to pull the engine off again this afternoon and run a wire from the Field term, on back of Alternator, to the back of the 5 amp breaker.  If it doesn't pop then I guess the problem is between breaker, voltage regulator, and firewall.


Corbin Ge!ser

On July 29, 2019 at 7:41 PM, "Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Thanks!  I plan on doing this tomorrow.  I found a buddy that has a new PP voltage regulator and some 5 amp breakers.


I’ll replace the breaker and if that doesn’t stop it from popping then I’ll swap the voltage regulator.

Corbin

On Jul 29, 2019, at 4:46 PM, Rick Hole r.hole@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

I often take it on the master solenoid or on the panel cig lighter... If those are inconvenient try the battery + post as long as the master switch is on

Sonia and Rick Hole
Email: r.hole@...

On Jul 29, 2019, at 2:34 PM, Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 


This sounds easy to test.....where on bus should I test voltage from?  I am not familiar with working with the bus.  Do I just place the probe anywhere on a good contact along bus?

Corbin Ge!ser

On July 29, 2019 at 2:50 PM, "'Rick Hole' r.hole@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 


The easiest test for a functioning alternator is to read the voltage on the 12V bus.  The battery without alternator will be 12.6 volts or less.  A functioning alternator will show more than 12.6 volts.  Normally the voltage regulator will adjust the field current to produce 13.8v with an automotive regulator and possibly as high as 14.4v with an aircraft regulator.

 

The engine must be running for the alternator to produce power, and may not produce full power at less than about 1600 RPMs.

 

Rick Hole

 

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 12:44 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Alt Field Circuit Breaker Popping

 

 

50 amp breaker is handling the current out from the alternator. It is only active when the alternator is spinning otherwise current from the alternator is zero. Battery charge plus electric items is probably 35 amps right after takeoff. If engine is not turning or field voltage is zero, then all current is coming from the battery.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID



"Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Update:  I’ve located a 50amp breaker labeled MAIN.  I turned on Master, electronics come on, and then I pulled the 50amp breaker.  Nothing turned off.  I’ve removed the breaker and would like to know how to test to confirm if it’s working or not.  

 

Should all electronics turn off if I pulled the MAIN breaker?

Corbin


On Jul 29, 2019, at 11:59 AM, Rick Hole r.hole@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

An open alternator output, for example 50a breaker tripped or disconnected wire could cause the field breaker to blow only if the regulator suppling full voltage to the field draws enough current to trip the 5a field breaker. This should not be possible but if the 5a breaker is old and tired and, say, tripping at 3a your could see it trip. I have never seen this happen though. 

Don’t overlook wire fault as a cause, insulation worn through and he wire touching something grounded etc. 

Rick Hole

Email: r.hole@...


On Jul 29, 2019, at 10:23 AM, q2pilot@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Ok, great news.

 

Now disconnect the Field wire from the back of the alternator and leave hanging.

Does the 5A break still blow?  If it does it's a bad regulator.  If it doesn't blow now, then we may have a shorted field in the alternator.

 

: )

Mike

 









Jim Patillo
 

Your plane only has one large 50 amp breaker on the panel under the amateur built sign according to Mark. If that’s not tripping it’s probably wiring or the regulator.

Some of us had split the system and installed another 60 a breaker for the alternator on the firewall.

Regards,
Jim
N46JP - Q200


Jay Scheevel
 

Don’t get too frustrated, Corbin. This is giving you a chance to really get to “know” your plane. Better in the long run.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: Q-LIST@... <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2019 1:31 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Alt Field Circuit Breaker Popping

 

 

Just an update on the alternator field issue.  I replaced the 5 amp breaker but that didn't fix it.  My buddy that has a PP voltage regulator had the 28 volt version and not the 14 volt.

 

I am going to pull the engine off again this afternoon and run a wire from the Field term, on back of Alternator, to the back of the 5 amp breaker.  If it doesn't pop then I guess the problem is between breaker, voltage regulator, and firewall.

 

 

Corbin Ge!ser


On July 29, 2019 at 7:41 PM, "Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Thanks!  I plan on doing this tomorrow.  I found a buddy that has a new PP voltage regulator and some 5 amp breakers.

 

I’ll replace the breaker and if that doesn’t stop it from popping then I’ll swap the voltage regulator.

Corbin


On Jul 29, 2019, at 4:46 PM, Rick Hole r.hole@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

I often take it on the master solenoid or on the panel cig lighter... If those are inconvenient try the battery + post as long as the master switch is on

Sonia and Rick Hole

Email: r.hole@...


On Jul 29, 2019, at 2:34 PM, Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

 

This sounds easy to test.....where on bus should I test voltage from?  I am not familiar with working with the bus.  Do I just place the probe anywhere on a good contact along bus?

 

Corbin Ge!ser


On July 29, 2019 at 2:50 PM, "'Rick Hole' r.hole@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

 

The easiest test for a functioning alternator is to read the voltage on the 12V bus.  The battery without alternator will be 12.6 volts or less.  A functioning alternator will show more than 12.6 volts.  Normally the voltage regulator will adjust the field current to produce 13.8v with an automotive regulator and possibly as high as 14.4v with an aircraft regulator.

 

The engine must be running for the alternator to produce power, and may not produce full power at less than about 1600 RPMs.

 

Rick Hole

 

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 12:44 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Alt Field Circuit Breaker Popping

 

 

50 amp breaker is handling the current out from the alternator. It is only active when the alternator is spinning otherwise current from the alternator is zero. Battery charge plus electric items is probably 35 amps right after takeoff. If engine is not turning or field voltage is zero, then all current is coming from the battery.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID



"Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Update:  I’ve located a 50amp breaker labeled MAIN.  I turned on Master, electronics come on, and then I pulled the 50amp breaker.  Nothing turned off.  I’ve removed the breaker and would like to know how to test to confirm if it’s working or not.  

 

Should all electronics turn off if I pulled the MAIN breaker?

Corbin


On Jul 29, 2019, at 11:59 AM, Rick Hole r.hole@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

An open alternator output, for example 50a breaker tripped or disconnected wire could cause the field breaker to blow only if the regulator suppling full voltage to the field draws enough current to trip the 5a field breaker. This should not be possible but if the 5a breaker is old and tired and, say, tripping at 3a your could see it trip. I have never seen this happen though. 

Don’t overlook wire fault as a cause, insulation worn through and he wire touching something grounded etc. 

Rick Hole

Email: r.hole@...


On Jul 29, 2019, at 10:23 AM, q2pilot@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Ok, great news.

 

Now disconnect the Field wire from the back of the alternator and leave hanging.

Does the 5A break still blow?  If it does it's a bad regulator.  If it doesn't blow now, then we may have a shorted field in the alternator.

 

: )

Mike

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Corbin Geiser <c_geiser@...>
 

I’m starting to think I need a new alternator.  Wiring seems fine to me.  Continuity checks are good.

Corbin

On Jul 30, 2019, at 5:21 PM, Rick Hole r.hole@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

I have seen frayed wires cause similar problems

Sonia and Rick Hole
Email: r.hole@...

On Jul 30, 2019, at 1:30 PM, Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Just an update on the alternator field issue.  I replaced the 5 amp breaker but that didn't fix it.  My buddy that has a PP voltage regulator had the 28 volt version and not the 14 volt.

I am going to pull the engine off again this afternoon and run a wire from the Field term, on back of Alternator, to the back of the 5 amp breaker.  If it doesn't pop then I guess the problem is between breaker, voltage regulator, and firewall.


Corbin Ge!ser

On July 29, 2019 at 7:41 PM, "Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Thanks!  I plan on doing this tomorrow.  I found a buddy that has a new PP voltage regulator and some 5 amp breakers.


I’ll replace the breaker and if that doesn’t stop it from popping then I’ll swap the voltage regulator.

Corbin

On Jul 29, 2019, at 4:46 PM, Rick Hole r.hole@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

I often take it on the master solenoid or on the panel cig lighter... If those are inconvenient try the battery + post as long as the master switch is on

Sonia and Rick Hole
Email: r.hole@...

On Jul 29, 2019, at 2:34 PM, Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 


This sounds easy to test.....where on bus should I test voltage from?  I am not familiar with working with the bus.  Do I just place the probe anywhere on a good contact along bus?

Corbin Ge!ser

On July 29, 2019 at 2:50 PM, "'Rick Hole' r.hole@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 


The easiest test for a functioning alternator is to read the voltage on the 12V bus.  The battery without alternator will be 12.6 volts or less.  A functioning alternator will show more than 12.6 volts.  Normally the voltage regulator will adjust the field current to produce 13.8v with an automotive regulator and possibly as high as 14.4v with an aircraft regulator.

 

The engine must be running for the alternator to produce power, and may not produce full power at less than about 1600 RPMs.

 

Rick Hole

 

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 12:44 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Alt Field Circuit Breaker Popping

 

 

50 amp breaker is handling the current out from the alternator. It is only active when the alternator is spinning otherwise current from the alternator is zero. Battery charge plus electric items is probably 35 amps right after takeoff. If engine is not turning or field voltage is zero, then all current is coming from the battery.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID



"Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Update:  I’ve located a 50amp breaker labeled MAIN.  I turned on Master, electronics come on, and then I pulled the 50amp breaker.  Nothing turned off.  I’ve removed the breaker and would like to know how to test to confirm if it’s working or not.  

 

Should all electronics turn off if I pulled the MAIN breaker?

Corbin


On Jul 29, 2019, at 11:59 AM, Rick Hole r.hole@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

An open alternator output, for example 50a breaker tripped or disconnected wire could cause the field breaker to blow only if the regulator suppling full voltage to the field draws enough current to trip the 5a field breaker. This should not be possible but if the 5a breaker is old and tired and, say, tripping at 3a your could see it trip. I have never seen this happen though. 

Don’t overlook wire fault as a cause, insulation worn through and he wire touching something grounded etc. 

Rick Hole

Email: r.hole@...


On Jul 29, 2019, at 10:23 AM, q2pilot@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Ok, great news.

 

Now disconnect the Field wire from the back of the alternator and leave hanging.

Does the 5A break still blow?  If it does it's a bad regulator.  If it doesn't blow now, then we may have a shorted field in the alternator.

 

: )

Mike

 









Corbin Geiser <c_geiser@...>
 

Great point!  Thanks for keeping me positive.   I love the fact I’m now comfortable taking off the engine and putting back on.  I’ve learned so much this last week.  

Corbin

On Jul 30, 2019, at 6:28 PM, 'Jay Scheevel SGT' jay@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Don’t get too frustrated, Corbin. This is giving you a chance to really get to “know” your plane. Better in the long run.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: Q-LIST@... <Q-LIST@...>
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2019 1:31 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Alt Field Circuit Breaker Popping

 

 

Just an update on the alternator field issue.  I replaced the 5 amp breaker but that didn't fix it.  My buddy that has a PP voltage regulator had the 28 volt version and not the 14 volt.

 

I am going to pull the engine off again this afternoon and run a wire from the Field term, on back of Alternator, to the back of the 5 amp breaker.  If it doesn't pop then I guess the problem is between breaker, voltage regulator, and firewall.

 

 

Corbin Ge!ser


On July 29, 2019 at 7:41 PM, "Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Thanks!  I plan on doing this tomorrow.  I found a buddy that has a new PP voltage regulator and some 5 amp breakers.

 

I’ll replace the breaker and if that doesn’t stop it from popping then I’ll swap the voltage regulator.

Corbin


On Jul 29, 2019, at 4:46 PM, Rick Hole r.hole@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

I often take it on the master solenoid or on the panel cig lighter... If those are inconvenient try the battery + post as long as the master switch is on

Sonia and Rick Hole

Email: r.hole@...


On Jul 29, 2019, at 2:34 PM, Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

 

This sounds easy to test.....where on bus should I test voltage from?  I am not familiar with working with the bus.  Do I just place the probe anywhere on a good contact along bus?

 

Corbin Ge!ser


On July 29, 2019 at 2:50 PM, "'Rick Hole' r.hole@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

 

The easiest test for a functioning alternator is to read the voltage on the 12V bus.  The battery without alternator will be 12.6 volts or less.  A functioning alternator will show more than 12.6 volts.  Normally the voltage regulator will adjust the field current to produce 13.8v with an automotive regulator and possibly as high as 14.4v with an aircraft regulator.

 

The engine must be running for the alternator to produce power, and may not produce full power at less than about 1600 RPMs.

 

Rick Hole

 

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 12:44 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Alt Field Circuit Breaker Popping

 

 

50 amp breaker is handling the current out from the alternator. It is only active when the alternator is spinning otherwise current from the alternator is zero. Battery charge plus electric items is probably 35 amps right after takeoff. If engine is not turning or field voltage is zero, then all current is coming from the battery.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID



"Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Update:  I’ve located a 50amp breaker labeled MAIN.  I turned on Master, electronics come on, and then I pulled the 50amp breaker.  Nothing turned off.  I’ve removed the breaker and would like to know how to test to confirm if it’s working or not.  

 

Should all electronics turn off if I pulled the MAIN breaker?

Corbin


On Jul 29, 2019, at 11:59 AM, Rick Hole r.hole@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

An open alternator output, for example 50a breaker tripped or disconnected wire could cause the field breaker to blow only if the regulator suppling full voltage to the field draws enough current to trip the 5a field breaker. This should not be possible but if the 5a breaker is old and tired and, say, tripping at 3a your could see it trip. I have never seen this happen though. 

Don’t overlook wire fault as a cause, insulation worn through and he wire touching something grounded etc. 

Rick Hole

Email: r.hole@...


On Jul 29, 2019, at 10:23 AM, q2pilot@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Ok, great news.

 

Now disconnect the Field wire from the back of the alternator and leave hanging.

Does the 5A break still blow?  If it does it's a bad regulator.  If it doesn't blow now, then we may have a shorted field in the alternator.

 

: )

Mike

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Corbin Geiser <c_geiser@...>
 

You are correct.  However, it only activates once the alternator has power and is running.  And since the 5 amp is popping right away then the alternator never gets the chance to excite the stator.  So I’m not sure if it would pop or not as I can’t get that far.

Corbin

On Jul 30, 2019, at 5:54 PM, logistics_engineering@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Your plane only has one large 50 amp breaker on the panel under the amateur built sign according to Mark. If that’s not tripping it’s probably wiring or the regulator.

Some of us had split the system and installed another 60 a breaker for the alternator on the firewall.

Regards,
Jim
N46JP - Q200


Rick Hole
 

Don’t forget, with main switch off, to check resistance from field wire to ground. It should not be 0 ohms. 
It may not show infinite however as other devices on the unpowered bus may have resistance to ground. For example any radio or device which comes on when the main sw is activated. A couple hundred ohms would be common. 
An ok Continuity check of a wire end to end does not preclude the wire also being grounded

Sonia and Rick Hole
Email: r.hole@...

On Jul 30, 2019, at 7:37 PM, Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

I’m starting to think I need a new alternator.  Wiring seems fine to me.  Continuity checks are good.

Corbin

On Jul 30, 2019, at 5:21 PM, Rick Hole r.hole@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

I have seen frayed wires cause similar problems

Sonia and Rick Hole
Email: r.hole@...

On Jul 30, 2019, at 1:30 PM, Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Just an update on the alternator field issue.  I replaced the 5 amp breaker but that didn't fix it.  My buddy that has a PP voltage regulator had the 28 volt version and not the 14 volt.

I am going to pull the engine off again this afternoon and run a wire from the Field term, on back of Alternator, to the back of the 5 amp breaker.  If it doesn't pop then I guess the problem is between breaker, voltage regulator, and firewall.


Corbin Ge!ser

On July 29, 2019 at 7:41 PM, "Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Thanks!  I plan on doing this tomorrow.  I found a buddy that has a new PP voltage regulator and some 5 amp breakers.


I’ll replace the breaker and if that doesn’t stop it from popping then I’ll swap the voltage regulator.

Corbin

On Jul 29, 2019, at 4:46 PM, Rick Hole r.hole@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

I often take it on the master solenoid or on the panel cig lighter... If those are inconvenient try the battery + post as long as the master switch is on

Sonia and Rick Hole
Email: r.hole@...

On Jul 29, 2019, at 2:34 PM, Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 


This sounds easy to test.....where on bus should I test voltage from?  I am not familiar with working with the bus.  Do I just place the probe anywhere on a good contact along bus?

Corbin Ge!ser

On July 29, 2019 at 2:50 PM, "'Rick Hole' r.hole@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 


The easiest test for a functioning alternator is to read the voltage on the 12V bus.  The battery without alternator will be 12.6 volts or less.  A functioning alternator will show more than 12.6 volts.  Normally the voltage regulator will adjust the field current to produce 13.8v with an automotive regulator and possibly as high as 14.4v with an aircraft regulator.

 

The engine must be running for the alternator to produce power, and may not produce full power at less than about 1600 RPMs.

 

Rick Hole

 

From: Q-LIST@... [mailto:Q-LIST@...]
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2019 12:44 PM
To: Q-LIST@...
Subject: Re: [Q-LIST] Re: Alt Field Circuit Breaker Popping

 

 

50 amp breaker is handling the current out from the alternator. It is only active when the alternator is spinning otherwise current from the alternator is zero. Battery charge plus electric items is probably 35 amps right after takeoff. If engine is not turning or field voltage is zero, then all current is coming from the battery.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID



"Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST]" <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Update:  I’ve located a 50amp breaker labeled MAIN.  I turned on Master, electronics come on, and then I pulled the 50amp breaker.  Nothing turned off.  I’ve removed the breaker and would like to know how to test to confirm if it’s working or not.  

 

Should all electronics turn off if I pulled the MAIN breaker?

Corbin


On Jul 29, 2019, at 11:59 AM, Rick Hole r.hole@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

An open alternator output, for example 50a breaker tripped or disconnected wire could cause the field breaker to blow only if the regulator suppling full voltage to the field draws enough current to trip the 5a field breaker. This should not be possible but if the 5a breaker is old and tired and, say, tripping at 3a your could see it trip. I have never seen this happen though. 

Don’t overlook wire fault as a cause, insulation worn through and he wire touching something grounded etc. 

Rick Hole

Email: r.hole@...


On Jul 29, 2019, at 10:23 AM, q2pilot@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Ok, great news.

 

Now disconnect the Field wire from the back of the alternator and leave hanging.

Does the 5A break still blow?  If it does it's a bad regulator.  If it doesn't blow now, then we may have a shorted field in the alternator.

 

: )

Mike

 









Rick Hole
 

Ok Corbin you are working so hard on this. You might try this test:
At the regulator disconnect the power wire from the 5a breaker. Power up. Does the breaker still trip? If yes the wire from breaker to regulator is bad. If no, reconnect the wire and at the regulator disconnect the wire going to alternator field. Power up again. Breaker trips? Bad regulator. Does not trip? Reconnect the wire. Disconnect field wire at alternator. Power up again. Trip? Bad wire. No trip? Bad alternator. 


Sonia and Rick Hole
Email: r.hole@...

On Jul 31, 2019, at 1:52 AM, Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

You are correct.  However, it only activates once the alternator has power and is running.  And since the 5 amp is popping right away then the alternator never gets the chance to excite the stator.  So I’m not sure if it would pop or not as I can’t get that far.


Corbin

On Jul 30, 2019, at 5:54 PM, logistics_engineering@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Your plane only has one large 50 amp breaker on the panel under the amateur built sign according to Mark. If that’s not tripping it’s probably wiring or the regulator.

Some of us had split the system and installed another 60 a breaker for the alternator on the firewall.

Regards,
Jim
N46JP - Q200


Rick Hole
 

That’s not quite correct. The 50a breaker connects the output of the alternator to the bus always unless it is tripped or pulled. Even with engine not running and regardless of the field/regulator being powered. Without voltage at the alternator field the alternator will not produce any current. The bus voltage at alternator output will not result in the alternator drawing any current from the bus because the internal diodes in the alternator block current from going “into” the alternator output. 
A failed alternator with shorted diode(s) (there are typically 6) will cause the 50 amp breaker to trip as soon as the master switch is on. 
The 50mp amp breaker is there for 2 reasons. One, to protect the alternator from producing too much power. Two, to protect the battery should the alternator diode(s) fail. 

Sonia and Rick Hole
Email: r.hole@...

On Jul 31, 2019, at 1:52 AM, Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

You are correct.  However, it only activates once the alternator has power and is running.  And since the 5 amp is popping right away then the alternator never gets the chance to excite the stator.  So I’m not sure if it would pop or not as I can’t get that far.


Corbin

On Jul 30, 2019, at 5:54 PM, logistics_engineering@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Your plane only has one large 50 amp breaker on the panel under the amateur built sign according to Mark. If that’s not tripping it’s probably wiring or the regulator.

Some of us had split the system and installed another 60 a breaker for the alternator on the firewall.

Regards,
Jim
N46JP - Q200


Corbin Geiser <c_geiser@...>
 

Thank you!  I can’t wait to try these steps!  I had to travel out of town for a couple of days.  So I won’t be able to try until Saturday.

Thanks again!

Corbin

On Jul 31, 2019, at 7:26 AM, Rick Hole r.hole@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

That’s not quite correct. The 50a breaker connects the output of the alternator to the bus always unless it is tripped or pulled. Even with engine not running and regardless of the field/regulator being powered. Without voltage at the alternator field the alternator will not produce any current. The bus voltage at alternator output will not result in the alternator drawing any current from the bus because the internal diodes in the alternator block current from going “into” the alternator output. 

A failed alternator with shorted diode(s) (there are typically 6) will cause the 50 amp breaker to trip as soon as the master switch is on. 
The 50mp amp breaker is there for 2 reasons. One, to protect the alternator from producing too much power. Two, to protect the battery should the alternator diode(s) fail. 

Sonia and Rick Hole
Email: r.hole@...

On Jul 31, 2019, at 1:52 AM, Corbin Geiser c_geiser@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

You are correct.  However, it only activates once the alternator has power and is running.  And since the 5 amp is popping right away then the alternator never gets the chance to excite the stator.  So I’m not sure if it would pop or not as I can’t get that far.


Corbin

On Jul 30, 2019, at 5:54 PM, logistics_engineering@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Your plane only has one large 50 amp breaker on the panel under the amateur built sign according to Mark. If that’s not tripping it’s probably wiring or the regulator.

Some of us had split the system and installed another 60 a breaker for the alternator on the firewall.

Regards,
Jim
N46JP - Q200


Jim Patillo
 

Excellent rendition Rick,

This a great learning moment for Chris to bond and understanding his new ride. Very handy stuff.
He has a fast airplane with the 0200 and GU canard.

The problem I had was the 60 amp breaker I installed for the alternator was mounted on the engine side of the firewall and after a few years of heat soaking, the breaker would degrade and trip. After it cooled down I could reset it. Replaced it twice in 19 years.

Jim Patillo
N46JP-Q200
😎


Jim Patillo
 

Btw it also tripped the 5a alt. field breaker on the panel and turned on the amber low volt alarm each time. That’s what started my electrical quest.

Jim
N46JP-0200


Corbin Geiser <c_geiser@...>
 

Update:  I was able to complete the steps recommended by Rick/Sonia and it points towards alternator as bad.  The breaker did not trip after the last step of disconnecting the alt field wire from alternator.  

I’m confident my (our) troubleshooting justifies trying a replacement alternator now!

Getting close!

Corbin

On Jul 31, 2019, at 11:05 AM, logistics_engineering@... [Q-LIST] <Q-LIST@...> wrote:

 

Btw it also tripped the 5a alt. field breaker on the panel and turned on the amber low volt alarm each time. That’s what started my electrical quest.

Jim
N46JP-0200


Mike Dwyer
 

Woa there.  Your Regulator is special.  It has a crowbar circuit.  You did not successfully test the crowbar circuit.  

Here is a way to do that test.  In your airplane, take the big A+ wire off the alternator and apply 14 volts to the A+ wire post on the alternator with a powersupply (battery charger should work).  With the Alternator switch "Off" are you drawing any current from the powersupply?  The answer should be no.  If yes, then your alternator is bad, likely shorted diode.

Next apply 14 volts to the A+ wire that is no longer on the alternator with a powersupply (battery charger should work).  Turn "On" the alternator switch.  The current out of the powersupply should be 0.  If it reads 1 or 2 amps or the 5 Amp breaker blows then your Regulator crowbar circuit is bad.

Can you take that regulator apart?  It is probably fixable for a lot less $ than a new one.

My money is on the regulator being bad...

Good Luck,
Mike N3QP Q200

  


Corbin Geiser <c_geiser@...>
 

Mike - forgive me but trying to understand.  When you say A+ are you referring to the Alt field terminal?  Assuming so, if I attach a battery charger to the Alt Field post do I ground to Alt Grnd or engine grnd or does it matter which?  Also, how would the battery charger show any current without the alternator connected to ship power?

Corbin Ge!ser

On August 2, 2019 at 2:57 PM, "q2pilot@... [Q-LIST]" wrote:

 

Woa there.  Your Regulator is special.  It has a crowbar circuit.  You did not successfully test the crowbar circuit.  


Here is a way to do that test.  In your airplane, take the big A+ wire off the alternator and apply 14 volts to the A+ wire post on the alternator with a powersupply (battery charger should work).  With the Alternator switch "Off" are you drawing any current from the powersupply?  The answer should be no.  If yes, then your alternator is bad, likely shorted diode.

Next apply 14 volts to the A+ wire that is no longer on the alternator with a powersupply (battery charger should work).  Turn "On" the alternator switch.  The current out of the powersupply should be 0.  If it reads 1 or 2 amps or the 5 Amp breaker blows then your Regulator crowbar circuit is bad.< /div>

Can you take that regulator apart?  It is probably fixable for a lot less $ than a new one.

My money is on the regulator being bad...

Good Luck,
Mike N3QP Q200

  



Corbin Geiser <c_geiser@...>
 

Oh wait......I got it now.  Battery charger used to send power to Alt Field and then gives a draw or not.  I think I understand.  :)

Corbin Ge!ser

On August 2, 2019 at 4:29 PM, Corbin Geiser wrote:

Mike - forgive me but trying to understand.  When you say A+ are you referring to the Alt field terminal?  Assuming so, if I attach a battery charger to the Alt Field post do I ground to Alt Grnd or engine grnd or does it matter which?  Also, how would the battery charger show any current without the alternator connected to ship power?

Corbin Ge!ser

On August 2, 2019 at 2:57 PM, "q2pilot@... [Q-LIST]" wrote:

 

Woa there.  Your Regulator is special.  It has a crowbar circuit.  You did not successfully test the crowbar circuit.  


Here is a way to do that test.  In your airplane, take the big A+ wire off the alternator and apply 14 volts to the A+ wire post on the alternator with a powersupply (battery charger should work).  With the Alternator switch "Off" are you drawing any current from the powersupply?  The answer should be no.  If yes, then your alternator is bad, likely shorted diode.

Next apply 14 volts to the A+ wire that is no longer on the alternator with a powersupply (battery charger should work).  Turn "On" the alternator switch.  The current out of the powersupply should be 0.  If it reads 1 or 2 amps or the 5 Amp breaker blows then your Regulator crowbar circuit is bad.< /div>

Can you take that regulator apart?  It is probably fixable for a lot less $ than a new one.

My money is on the regulator being bad...

Good Luck,
Mike N3QP Q200