Battery/Master/Starter Schematic


 

After a few hours of tinkering with different CAD programs, settling in KiCAD, and learning how to create components, here is my first draft for my dual battery, B&C alternator and VPX setup. Here is a quick image for easy viewing but the attached PDF is better resolution ... 

And I already know that the alternator connections aren't optimized yet for the VP-X but that will need some more research how to connect field wires etc with this non-standard regulator.

So what's the braintrust saying? What's missing? Looking forward to peoples feedback,

Robert

--
Robert "TheFrisco" Schmid
(408) 805-5450

www.facebook.com/TheFlyingFriscos
www.theflyingfriscos.com

Love building planes almost as much as flying. Latest completed build is "Loki", a Chinook Plus 2 bush plane.


Mike Dwyer
 

  • Some people have a "crowbar" on the regulator so if it starts putting out say 16 volts it shorts out and blows the alternator fuse.  Maybe that's the DV14?
  • 10uf Aluminum Electrolitic... They don't like heat much.  I think I'd look for a Tantalum cap.
  • Also in parallel with the 10UF, put a .1 and a .01 there also.  That will reduce any RF or alternator noise out of the alternator.
  • For all 3 of your solenoids and that Alternator relay, make sure there is a Back EMF diode to suppress the huge voltage pulse you'd get off them otherwise.  Sometimes this is built into the contactor.
  • That 12V going into your VP-x, I think I'd hang a big honker cap off that so when you switch from one battery to the other you don't glitch the 12v.  Depends on how much current the VP-x is drawing.  No fuse for the VP-x?
  • Your battery selector switch is drawn all shorted out, won't do anything.
  • No fuse on the alternator field?  Well 30 Amps on the output.
  • The Coil on your Contactor 1, 2, and starter is drawn improperly, top of coil goes to battery side.
  • Your Keyed ignition switch could probably be on a fused line in case the wire chaffs or the thing shorts out.
  • Make all your grounds engine ground, careful of creating a ground loop.  That can do weird things when you transmit on the radio or transponder. 
  • I liked having a buss for the master switch and then an avionics buss off that with a switch so I could turn the avionics on after startup.  It's less important these days but make sure all your avionics is rated to be on when you start up.
  • You got a volt meter rigged up so when you check each battery with the switch so you can see the voltage?  I'd say the pre-takeoff check with engine running should be Alternator OFF, bat 1 check, bat 2 check.  The sad thing about batteries is they could look ok for voltage but have only a few AH left.  I guess if one day you start on bat 1 and the next day start on bat 2 that would be a good check of the batteries.  PS, I liked to keep a good AGM computerized charger with Desulfinator on the batterys to maintain them.  This can just stay hooked to the batteries and plugged into 120V in your hangar.  I was using a PC925 and after 13 years I tested it and was nearly as good as a new battery.  I had actually purchased a new one but my buddy had a battery tester and we tested both old and new.  I returned the newly purchased battery.
I also kept all my switches on a panel that could be pulled from the instrument panel with 4 screws.  Over the years it saved me many times of crawling under the instrument panel, which is not fun!
Wood props weigh about 7 lbs.  So there is almost no flywheel effect.  If you get any kind of a kickback on startup then do something to fix that!

Fly Safe,
Mike Dwyer


On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 6:50 PM Robert Schmid <robert@...> wrote:
After a few hours of tinkering with different CAD programs, settling in KiCAD, and learning how to create components, here is my first draft for my dual battery, B&C alternator and VPX setup. Here is a quick image for easy viewing but the attached PDF is better resolution ... 

And I already know that the alternator connections aren't optimized yet for the VP-X but that will need some more research how to connect field wires etc with this non-standard regulator.

So what's the braintrust saying? What's missing? Looking forward to peoples feedback,

Robert

--
Robert "TheFrisco" Schmid
(408) 805-5450

www.facebook.com/TheFlyingFriscos
www.theflyingfriscos.com

Love building planes almost as much as flying. Latest completed build is "Loki", a Chinook Plus 2 bush plane.


Sam Hoskins
 

The B&C alternator is a permanent magnet variety, and doesn't have a field as such. They originally had a fuse on each leg of the alternator on its way to the regulator. I had a failure where one of the legs of a fuse corroded with the connection and cause a failure. I was talking to the engineers at B&C about it and they decided to revise their drawing and remove the fuses between the alternator and the regulator to remove that possible point of failure. They changed their official drawings to reflect that. That's for the 30 amp alternator, I don't know about their 10 amp alternator.

Sam

On Tue, Jul 5, 2022, 6:52 PM Mike Dwyer <q200pilot@...> wrote:
  • Some people have a "crowbar" on the regulator so if it starts putting out say 16 volts it shorts out and blows the alternator fuse.  Maybe that's the DV14?
  • 10uf Aluminum Electrolitic... They don't like heat much.  I think I'd look for a Tantalum cap.
  • Also in parallel with the 10UF, put a .1 and a .01 there also.  That will reduce any RF or alternator noise out of the alternator.
  • For all 3 of your solenoids and that Alternator relay, make sure there is a Back EMF diode to suppress the huge voltage pulse you'd get off them otherwise.  Sometimes this is built into the contactor.
  • That 12V going into your VP-x, I think I'd hang a big honker cap off that so when you switch from one battery to the other you don't glitch the 12v.  Depends on how much current the VP-x is drawing.  No fuse for the VP-x?
  • Your battery selector switch is drawn all shorted out, won't do anything.
  • No fuse on the alternator field?  Well 30 Amps on the output.
  • The Coil on your Contactor 1, 2, and starter is drawn improperly, top of coil goes to battery side.
  • Your Keyed ignition switch could probably be on a fused line in case the wire chaffs or the thing shorts out.
  • Make all your grounds engine ground, careful of creating a ground loop.  That can do weird things when you transmit on the radio or transponder. 
  • I liked having a buss for the master switch and then an avionics buss off that with a switch so I could turn the avionics on after startup.  It's less important these days but make sure all your avionics is rated to be on when you start up.
  • You got a volt meter rigged up so when you check each battery with the switch so you can see the voltage?  I'd say the pre-takeoff check with engine running should be Alternator OFF, bat 1 check, bat 2 check.  The sad thing about batteries is they could look ok for voltage but have only a few AH left.  I guess if one day you start on bat 1 and the next day start on bat 2 that would be a good check of the batteries.  PS, I liked to keep a good AGM computerized charger with Desulfinator on the batterys to maintain them.  This can just stay hooked to the batteries and plugged into 120V in your hangar.  I was using a PC925 and after 13 years I tested it and was nearly as good as a new battery.  I had actually purchased a new one but my buddy had a battery tester and we tested both old and new.  I returned the newly purchased battery.
I also kept all my switches on a panel that could be pulled from the instrument panel with 4 screws.  Over the years it saved me many times of crawling under the instrument panel, which is not fun!
Wood props weigh about 7 lbs.  So there is almost no flywheel effect.  If you get any kind of a kickback on startup then do something to fix that!

Fly Safe,
Mike Dwyer

On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 6:50 PM Robert Schmid <robert@...> wrote:
After a few hours of tinkering with different CAD programs, settling in KiCAD, and learning how to create components, here is my first draft for my dual battery, B&C alternator and VPX setup. Here is a quick image for easy viewing but the attached PDF is better resolution ... 

And I already know that the alternator connections aren't optimized yet for the VP-X but that will need some more research how to connect field wires etc with this non-standard regulator.

So what's the braintrust saying? What's missing? Looking forward to peoples feedback,

Robert

--
Robert "TheFrisco" Schmid
(408) 805-5450

www.facebook.com/TheFlyingFriscos
www.theflyingfriscos.com

Love building planes almost as much as flying. Latest completed build is "Loki", a Chinook Plus 2 bush plane.


Bill Higdon
 

Mike
As for aluminum electrolytic caps & temperatures ti pays to look at the specs from the manufacturer there are some that can take high temps. Also some Tant's tend to be "cherry bombs" from my experience, "note your mileage may vary"
Bill


Jay Scheevel
 

I put my large-spike capacitor inside the airplane on the firewall (so low heat there). My cap is a bit of overkill at 47 Farad-40 V rating….. but, what isn’t overkill on my airplane, right?  I also have a smaller 25 V 20 Farad cap on the Avionics bus, because my avionics/EFIS are turned on when I start my engine because that is where I read my oil pressure, etc.  Here is a picture of the back of my firewall with the large capacitor looking like a blue tennis ball can.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Higdon via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, July 6, 2022 8:10 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Battery/Master/Starter Schematic

 

Mike
As for aluminum electrolytic caps & temperatures ti pays to look at the specs from the manufacturer there are some that can take high temps. Also some Tant's tend to be "cherry bombs" from my experience, "note your mileage may vary"
Bill