Changes to fuel system for fuel injection


ryan goodman
 

For those running fuel injection in their Q2s, how did you end up setting up your fuel tanks, lines, vents, returns for the change. Toying with a few ideas but curious if anyone else has gone down this road. Essentially we're trying to eliminate the use of the header tank as a header tank and either integrate it into one single storage solution with the main tank or setup as two separate tanks with a selector. Open to thoughts and criticism here. 
      Ryan


Chris Walterson
 

Ryan-------------  I am using the SDS fuel injection system in mine.

 I have the standard Q fuel setup with the fuel being pumped to the header from the main and when the header is full it overflows and goes back to the main.  I am using the small  Faccett low pressure pump to fill the header. I  leave it on all the time. I've  left the LP pump on all the time in my other airplane and it has worked for 30 years. This way you don't need to monitor the header tank level all the time.

 From the header it flow to the high pressure pump and then to the injectors. I have two pumps in parallel.  There is a pressure relief at the end of the injector circuit that keeps the pressure steady.

 Mine is the stock Subaru unit. From the relief it then flows back into the header. You need to install another fitting in the header for the return line ,but that is it.

 I think the SDS site has some diagrams and info. They have a video on an 0200 continental injected.

 take care-------------  Chris





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Corbin
 

Same design as Chris except with the Airflow Performance fuel injection system. I’m currently adding a backup battery to the two redundant fuel pumps feeding the engine.

Corbin

On Sep 27, 2021, at 6:17 PM, Chris Walterson <dkeats@tbaytel.net> wrote:

 Ryan------------- I am using the SDS fuel injection system in mine.

I have the standard Q fuel setup with the fuel being pumped to the header from the main and when the header is full it overflows and goes back to the main. I am using the small Faccett low pressure pump to fill the header. I leave it on all the time. I've left the LP pump on all the time in my other airplane and it has worked for 30 years. This way you don't need to monitor the header tank level all the time.

From the header it flow to the high pressure pump and then to the injectors. I have two pumps in parallel. There is a pressure relief at the end of the injector circuit that keeps the pressure steady.

Mine is the stock Subaru unit. From the relief it then flows back into the header. You need to install another fitting in the header for the return line ,but that is it.

I think the SDS site has some diagrams and info. They have a video on an 0200 continental injected.

take care------------- Chris





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Corbin
N121CG


Phil Lankford
 

I don’t like the idea of fuel
Injection and absent of a header tank. The simple elegance of gravity feed fuel to a normally aspirated engine is not dependent of any electrical system. This airplane needs a hard surface runway like an airport. For all the minimal gains in efficiency of a fuel injected system there are just more systems needed to keep the fan going. We already have a virtual watermelon seed affixed to 100 hp good enough to outpace many high performance GA aircraft. Keep it simple with redundancies for spark and enjoy all the benefits of a fixed gear normally aspirated experience. You don’t want the fan to stop in this type aircraft. Consider the risk management equation.

Phil Lankford

On Sep 27, 2021, at 4:53 PM, Corbin via groups.io <c_geiser=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:

Same design as Chris except with the Airflow Performance fuel injection system. I’m currently adding a backup battery to the two redundant fuel pumps feeding the engine.

Corbin

On Sep 27, 2021, at 6:17 PM, Chris Walterson <dkeats@tbaytel.net> wrote:

 Ryan------------- I am using the SDS fuel injection system in mine.

I have the standard Q fuel setup with the fuel being pumped to the header from the main and when the header is full it overflows and goes back to the main. I am using the small Faccett low pressure pump to fill the header. I leave it on all the time. I've left the LP pump on all the time in my other airplane and it has worked for 30 years. This way you don't need to monitor the header tank level all the time.

From the header it flow to the high pressure pump and then to the injectors. I have two pumps in parallel. There is a pressure relief at the end of the injector circuit that keeps the pressure steady.

Mine is the stock Subaru unit. From the relief it then flows back into the header. You need to install another fitting in the header for the return line ,but that is it.

I think the SDS site has some diagrams and info. They have a video on an 0200 continental injected.

take care------------- Chris





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N121CG





Sam Hoskins
 

Ryan,

I have a fuel injector mounted on each intake tube. Here is path each drop of fuel takes:

Header>aft, behind pilot>Walbro fuel pump>10 micron high pressure filter>forward, out to firewall>Injectors>Back aft through firewall>Pressure regulator>header tank.

I use the plans setup for transferring fuel from the main tank to the header. Same with the Q-200 ram air vent tube. Look in my photos in the Q-list for a schematic before I installed the fuel injection.  Look in my blog for photos of the engine and other fuel injection components.

Here is something to think about. Any leak in a connector, or hose connection, will spray 40 psi fuel into the engine compartment. But, so far, so good.


Sam

On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 4:47 PM ryan goodman via groups.io <elboy0712=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
For those running fuel injection in their Q2s, how did you end up setting up your fuel tanks, lines, vents, returns for the change. Toying with a few ideas but curious if anyone else has gone down this road. Essentially we're trying to eliminate the use of the header tank as a header tank and either integrate it into one single storage solution with the main tank or setup as two separate tanks with a selector. Open to thoughts and criticism here. 
      Ryan


smeshno1@...
 

 My own thoughts as well Phil.  Kiss..make and keep her simple. Aerodynamics will offer more at less cost and much less overall maintenance. Sure..pushing hp will gain, mostly in climb. It for sure will use more of that rather expensive benzine! What is the gain of going more complex? Is there much..honestly? Round and round the dog chases it's tail. Dunno..for me the $900 reliable ol Marvel carb is still working well on lots of GA aircraft. Gravity works it seems...has been for a while now. No outside loops planned in the Frankenbird.  It's mission is to go safe, far, and on less burn..and do so reasonably fast. Not a cargo hauler..   

 I have an LSA STOL and that mission aircraft is also based on simple, but of course selection of runways are vastly increased. It isn't going to arrive faster than even the slowest Q however! The TandemWing is not intentionally going into the challenge of sand bar hopping and postage stamp full slips into grass fields.

 Just me but knowing engines a little..granted..injection will offer a longer lifetime of components as long as it works. I fried a perfectly good very recently overhauled Subaru EA82 NA (I did the overhaul, and I am ASE certified) one cold January night going over Monarch Pass in Colorado simply because the ECM went full lean and I totally had ZERO indication. No temp rise, no knocking, no warning. Fried the rings on all four cylinders within 30 seconds time. Nearly zero compressions I later discovered. I had to coast down into Grand Junction in neutral.  What if that was a Q? Yu think "coasting" into town from the High Rockies might be possible? Maybe. Doubtful. 

 Phil is correct..there is no such thing guys as "flight safety". Risk Management..and even then we each are aware the flight might end in less than expected ways.             


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Phil Lankford via groups.io <britmcman@...>
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2021 12:08 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Changes to fuel system for fuel injection
 
I don’t like the idea of fuel
Injection and absent of a header tank. The simple elegance of gravity feed fuel to a normally aspirated engine is not dependent of any electrical system. This airplane needs a hard surface runway like an airport. For all the minimal gains in efficiency of a fuel injected system there are just more systems needed to keep the fan going. We already have a virtual watermelon seed affixed to 100 hp good enough to outpace many high performance GA aircraft. Keep it simple with redundancies for spark and enjoy all the benefits of a fixed gear normally aspirated experience. You don’t want the fan to stop in this type aircraft. Consider the risk management equation.

Phil Lankford

> On Sep 27, 2021, at 4:53 PM, Corbin via groups.io <c_geiser@...> wrote:
>
> Same design as Chris except with the Airflow Performance fuel injection system.  I’m currently adding a backup battery to the two redundant fuel pumps feeding the engine. 
>
> Corbin
>
>> On Sep 27, 2021, at 6:17 PM, Chris Walterson <dkeats@...> wrote:
>>
>>   Ryan-------------  I am using the SDS fuel injection system in mine.
>>
>> I have the standard Q fuel setup with the fuel being pumped to the header from the main and when the header is full it overflows and goes back to the main.  I am using the small  Faccett low pressure pump to fill the header. I  leave it on all the time. I've  left the LP pump on all the time in my other airplane and it has worked for 30 years. This way you don't need to monitor the header tank level all the time.
>>
>> From the header it flow to the high pressure pump and then to the injectors. I have two pumps in parallel.  There is a pressure relief at the end of the injector circuit that keeps the pressure steady.
>>
>> Mine is the stock Subaru unit. From the relief it then flows back into the header. You need to install another fitting in the header for the return line ,but that is it.
>>
>> I think the SDS site has some diagrams and info. They have a video on an 0200 continental injected.
>>
>> take care-------------  Chris
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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> --
> Corbin
> N121CG
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