Topics

Considering Very First Composite Project - Guidance Appreciated

Corbin
 

I am moving this conversation over here, from Facebook, as recommended by Jay (thanks Jay). 

I would like to add a LED landing light to my Q200.  I am leaning towards building the light flush into my lower cowling as I don't want to run wiring down the lower wing to install in the wheel pants.  Although, it would be really cool to have a flush mount light in both wheel pants.  I have also considered just mounting it under the cowling back towards the cowl flap.  However, flush would be preferred if it is not too difficult to learn how to do this.  

So...on to my question.  I am open to taking on this project so that I get a flush mount light as well as learn how to work with composite material.  Can I use my current lower cowling as a mold or should I look into cutting and building the light into the existing cowling?  

Open to suggestions and how to start learning about working with composite materials.

Jay Scheevel
 

Just uploaded a document that you should read to familiarize yourself with composite construction, prior to starting your work. Folks here can help you with the specifics of materials you will want to order (usually from Aircraft Spruce).

 

Here is the link for the document I loaded https://q-list.groups.io/g/main/files/Composite%20materials%20education/RAF_composite_education_section_from_Q2Plans.pdf

 

Once people have a chance to chime in, you can start designing your install and build using techniques in the above document. If you don’t get any suggestions for installations, I will chime in and tell you what I would do.

 

Cheers,

Jay N8WQ

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Corbin via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2020 4:57 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: [Q-List] Considering Very First Composite Project - Guidance Appreciated

 

I am moving this conversation over here, from Facebook, as recommended by Jay (thanks Jay). 

I would like to add a LED landing light to my Q200.  I am leaning towards building the light flush into my lower cowling as I don't want to run wiring down the lower wing to install in the wheel pants.  Although, it would be really cool to have a flush mount light in both wheel pants.  I have also considered just mounting it under the cowling back towards the cowl flap.  However, flush would be preferred if it is not too difficult to learn how to do this.  

So...on to my question.  I am open to taking on this project so that I get a flush mount light as well as learn how to work with composite material.  Can I use my current lower cowling as a mold or should I look into cutting and building the light into the existing cowling?  

Open to suggestions and how to start learning about working with composite materials.

Corbin
 

Awesome....looks like great reading material.  Thank you!
--

Corbin 
N33QR

Sam Hoskins
 

Corbin.

Here's the Sam Hoskins method. Buy the light and a mounting bracket, if available. Look at your cowl and figure out where you have room. (If you want to get fancy you can use the ghost images method.)
Figure out which angle you want it to point. Drill a small hole in the cowling as the center of the light. Keep making the hole bigger until it's big enough. Figure out how to attach the light to the cowling. Trim the opening as needed. Figure out how to form a piece of Plexiglas to cover the opening. Figure out how to attach the plexi to the cowl. Figure out how to touch up the paint. 
Figure out how to run your wires to a switch. Don't forget a connector so you can drop the cowl. 
Make a log book entry. 

Ghost images:


That should do it. Now start. 

Sam 



On Mon, Jan 20, 2020, 6:56 PM Corbin via Groups.Io <c_geiser=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
I am moving this conversation over here, from Facebook, as recommended by Jay (thanks Jay). 

I would like to add a LED landing light to my Q200.  I am leaning towards building the light flush into my lower cowling as I don't want to run wiring down the lower wing to install in the wheel pants.  Although, it would be really cool to have a flush mount light in both wheel pants.  I have also considered just mounting it under the cowling back towards the cowl flap.  However, flush would be preferred if it is not too difficult to learn how to do this.  

So...on to my question.  I am open to taking on this project so that I get a flush mount light as well as learn how to work with composite material.  Can I use my current lower cowling as a mold or should I look into cutting and building the light into the existing cowling?  

Open to suggestions and how to start learning about working with composite materials.

Jay Scheevel
 

Following Sam's plan, you can shape the Plexiglas to a compound curve, matching that of your cowl cutout by using a heat gun and gentle pressure with your hands (where leather gloves). Once you have it shaped, you can trim it to the shape of the hole. You may want to lay up a lip around the hole, if you want the plex to bond flush to the cowl, or just bond the plex to the inside of the cowling, in front of the light.

Cheers,
Jay

Corbin
 

Thanks guys!  I’m starting to think this is doable and within reason.  I’ll start with practicing on hearing/bending plexiglass while designing a hole to cut in lower cowling.

I have the light and mount already.

Corbin

On Jan 21, 2020, at 8:19 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

Following Sam's plan, you can shape the Plexiglas to a compound curve, matching that of your cowl cutout by using a heat gun and gentle pressure with your hands (where leather gloves). Once you have it shaped, you can trim it to the shape of the hole. You may want to lay up a lip around the hole, if you want the plex to bond flush to the cowl, or just bond the plex to the inside of the cowling, in front of the light.

Cheers,
Jay

--

Corbin 
N33QR

Jim Patillo
 

It would be nice to hear from guys that actually installed a landing light on their Q and if they really got benefit from it.

I’ve never had one on my Q and have landed it many times in the dark., never saw a need. We were taught to land with no lights .......... just in case.

Jim
N46JP - Q200

Sent from Outer Space


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Corbin via Groups.Io <c_geiser@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 7:33:36 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Considering Very First Composite Project - Guidance Appreciated
 
Thanks guys!  I’m starting to think this is doable and within reason.  I’ll start with practicing on hearing/bending plexiglass while designing a hole to cut in lower cowling.

I have the light and mount already.

Corbin

On Jan 21, 2020, at 8:19 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

Following Sam's plan, you can shape the Plexiglas to a compound curve, matching that of your cowl cutout by using a heat gun and gentle pressure with your hands (where leather gloves). Once you have it shaped, you can trim it to the shape of the hole. You may want to lay up a lip around the hole, if you want the plex to bond flush to the cowl, or just bond the plex to the inside of the cowling, in front of the light.

Cheers,
Jay

--

Corbin 
N33QR

Corbin
 

Hey Jim,

Mine is not actually for night flying.  It is for increased visibility at the uncontrolled field I fly into.  We have many student pilots that have trouble seeing me on final.  I have had two helicopters also have trouble spotting me.  

Corbin

On January 21, 2020 at 10:28 AM, Jim Patillo <Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:

It would be nice to hear from guys that actually installed a landing light on their Q and if they really got benefit from it.

I’ve never had one on my Q and have landed it many times in the dark., never saw a need. We were taught to land with no lights .......... just in case.

Jim
N46JP - Q200

Sent from Outer Space

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Corbin via Groups.Io <c_geiser@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 7:33:36 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Considering Very First Composite Project - Guidance Appreciated
 
Thanks guys!  I’m starting to think this is doable and within reason.  I’ll start with practicing on hearing/bending plexiglass while designing a hole to cut in lower cowling.

I have the light and mount already.

Corbin

On Jan 21, 2020, at 8:19 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

Following Sam's plan, you can shape the Plexiglas to a compound curve, matching that of your cowl cutout by using a heat gun and gentle pressure with your hands (where leather gloves). Once you have it shaped, you can trim it to the shape of the hole. You may want to lay up a lip around the hole, if you want the plex to bond flush to the cowl, or just bond the plex to the inside of the cowling, in front of the light.

Cheers,
Jay

--

Corbin 
N33QR




--

Corbin 
N33QR

Jay Scheevel
 

I see you have removable covers on your brake assembly/axles. Perhaps you could engineer some kind of wig-wag using high intensity LED’s incorporated into those covers. Or maybe put two landing lights in the cowl, with wig-wag controller. I have found that folks with two wig-wags are very visible. Just an idea..

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Corbin via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 9:33 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Cc: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Considering Very First Composite Project - Guidance Appreciated

 

Hey Jim,

 

Mine is not actually for night flying.  It is for increased visibility at the uncontrolled field I fly into.  We have many student pilots that have trouble seeing me on final.  I have had two helicopters also have trouble spotting me.  

 

Corbin


On January 21, 2020 at 10:28 AM, Jim Patillo <Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:

It would be nice to hear from guys that actually installed a landing light on their Q and if they really got benefit from it.

 

I’ve never had one on my Q and have landed it many times in the dark., never saw a need. We were taught to land with no lights .......... just in case.

 

Jim

N46JP - Q200

 

Sent from Outer Space


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Corbin via Groups.Io <c_geiser@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 7:33:36 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Considering Very First Composite Project - Guidance Appreciated

 

Thanks guys!  I’m starting to think this is doable and within reason.  I’ll start with practicing on hearing/bending plexiglass while designing a hole to cut in lower cowling.

 

I have the light and mount already.

Corbin



On Jan 21, 2020, at 8:19 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

Following Sam's plan, you can shape the Plexiglas to a compound curve, matching that of your cowl cutout by using a heat gun and gentle pressure with your hands (where leather gloves). Once you have it shaped, you can trim it to the shape of the hole. You may want to lay up a lip around the hole, if you want the plex to bond flush to the cowl, or just bond the plex to the inside of the cowling, in front of the light.

Cheers,
Jay


--

Corbin 
N33QR

 

 


--

Corbin 
N33QR

Corbin
 

Good eye.  Yep, removable brake covers  inside of wheel pants.  The light I have is a wig wag and having two to benefit from that would be great.  Just not sure how to get wires down to wheel pants...

A creative install in cowl to get two lights would be an option.

Corbin

On Jan 21, 2020, at 10:18 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:



I see you have removable covers on your brake assembly/axles. Perhaps you could engineer some kind of wig-wag using high intensity LED’s incorporated into those covers. Or maybe put two landing lights in the cowl, with wig-wag controller. I have found that folks with two wig-wags are very visible. Just an idea..

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Corbin via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 9:33 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Cc: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Considering Very First Composite Project - Guidance Appreciated

 

Hey Jim,

 

Mine is not actually for night flying.  It is for increased visibility at the uncontrolled field I fly into.  We have many student pilots that have trouble seeing me on final.  I have had two helicopters also have trouble spotting me.  

 

Corbin


On January 21, 2020 at 10:28 AM, Jim Patillo <Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:

It would be nice to hear from guys that actually installed a landing light on their Q and if they really got benefit from it.

 

I’ve never had one on my Q and have landed it many times in the dark., never saw a need. We were taught to land with no lights .......... just in case.

 

Jim

N46JP - Q200

 

Sent from Outer Space


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Corbin via Groups.Io <c_geiser@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 7:33:36 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Considering Very First Composite Project - Guidance Appreciated

 

Thanks guys!  I’m starting to think this is doable and within reason.  I’ll start with practicing on hearing/bending plexiglass while designing a hole to cut in lower cowling.

 

I have the light and mount already.

Corbin



On Jan 21, 2020, at 8:19 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

Following Sam's plan, you can shape the Plexiglas to a compound curve, matching that of your cowl cutout by using a heat gun and gentle pressure with your hands (where leather gloves). Once you have it shaped, you can trim it to the shape of the hole. You may want to lay up a lip around the hole, if you want the plex to bond flush to the cowl, or just bond the plex to the inside of the cowling, in front of the light.

Cheers,
Jay


--

Corbin 
N33QR

 

 


--

Corbin 
N33QR


--

Corbin 
N33QR

Jim Patillo
 

Corbin an option would be to run the power/ground wires down the elevator core slots using 5 min epoxy to keep wires in place and mount the wig-wags in the front or side of the wheel pants.  

I thought that plane had strobes already?

Jim
N46JP - Q200

One Sky Dog
 

I was coming to OGD one day and the tower was warning people small, fast, hard to see.

I stuck a half a dozen of these on the plane,


On Jan 21, 2020, at 9:32 AM, Corbin via Groups.Io <c_geiser@...> wrote:

Hey Jim,

Mine is not actually for night flying.  It is for increased visibility at the uncontrolled field I fly into.  We have many student pilots that have trouble seeing me on final.  I have had two helicopters also have trouble spotting me.  

Corbin

On January 21, 2020 at 10:28 AM, Jim Patillo <Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:

It would be nice to hear from guys that actually installed a landing light on their Q and if they really got benefit from it.

I’ve never had one on my Q and have landed it many times in the dark., never saw a need. We were taught to land with no lights .......... just in case.

Jim
N46JP - Q200

Sent from Outer Space

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Corbin via Groups.Io <c_geiser@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 7:33:36 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Considering Very First Composite Project - Guidance Appreciated
 
Thanks guys!  I’m starting to think this is doable and within reason.  I’ll start with practicing on hearing/bending plexiglass while designing a hole to cut in lower cowling.

I have the light and mount already.

Corbin

On Jan 21, 2020, at 8:19 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

Following Sam's plan, you can shape the Plexiglas to a compound curve, matching that of your cowl cutout by using a heat gun and gentle pressure with your hands (where leather gloves). Once you have it shaped, you can trim it to the shape of the hole. You may want to lay up a lip around the hole, if you want the plex to bond flush to the cowl, or just bond the plex to the inside of the cowling, in front of the light.

Cheers,
Jay

--

Corbin 
N33QR




--

Corbin 
N33QR

Corbin
 

That’s the second time those lights were recommended today.  I think I’ll order some!

Corbin

On Jan 21, 2020, at 7:56 PM, One Sky Dog via Groups.Io <Oneskydog@...> wrote:

I was coming to OGD one day and the tower was warning people small, fast, hard to see.

I stuck a half a dozen of these on the plane,


Charlie Johnson


On Jan 21, 2020, at 9:32 AM, Corbin via Groups.Io <c_geiser@...> wrote:

Hey Jim,

Mine is not actually for night flying.  It is for increased visibility at the uncontrolled field I fly into.  We have many student pilots that have trouble seeing me on final.  I have had two helicopters also have trouble spotting me.  

Corbin

On January 21, 2020 at 10:28 AM, Jim Patillo <Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:

It would be nice to hear from guys that actually installed a landing light on their Q and if they really got benefit from it.

I’ve never had one on my Q and have landed it many times in the dark., never saw a need. We were taught to land with no lights .......... just in case.

Jim
N46JP - Q200

Sent from Outer Space

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Corbin via Groups.Io <c_geiser@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 7:33:36 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Considering Very First Composite Project - Guidance Appreciated
 
Thanks guys!  I’m starting to think this is doable and within reason.  I’ll start with practicing on hearing/bending plexiglass while designing a hole to cut in lower cowling.

I have the light and mount already.

Corbin

On Jan 21, 2020, at 8:19 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

Following Sam's plan, you can shape the Plexiglas to a compound curve, matching that of your cowl cutout by using a heat gun and gentle pressure with your hands (where leather gloves). Once you have it shaped, you can trim it to the shape of the hole. You may want to lay up a lip around the hole, if you want the plex to bond flush to the cowl, or just bond the plex to the inside of the cowling, in front of the light.

Cheers,
Jay

--

Corbin 
N33QR




--

Corbin 
N33QR

--

Corbin 
N33QR

Corbin
 

I’d need to learn how to remove elevators to access that slot, right?   

Corbin

On Jan 21, 2020, at 7:08 PM, Jim Patillo <Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:



Corbin an option would be to run the power/ground wires down the elevator core slots using 5 min epoxy to keep wires in place and mount the wig-wags in the front or side of the wheel pants.  

I thought that plane had strobes already?

Jim
N46JP - Q200


--

Corbin 
N33QR

Jim Patillo
 

Yes! But it’s pretty straight forward.

Jim
N46JP - Q200

Sent from Outer Space


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Corbin via Groups.Io <c_geiser@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 6:00:35 PM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Considering Very First Composite Project - Guidance Appreciated
 
I’d need to learn how to remove elevators to access that slot, right?   

Corbin

On Jan 21, 2020, at 7:08 PM, Jim Patillo <Logistics_engineering@...> wrote:



Corbin an option would be to run the power/ground wires down the elevator core slots using 5 min epoxy to keep wires in place and mount the wig-wags in the front or side of the wheel pants.  

I thought that plane had strobes already?

Jim
N46JP - Q200


--

Corbin 
N33QR

Mike Conlin
 

I've got a q2/revmaster cowling that has a  landing light installed. It's been  in the attic for 20years. I can take a few inside outside pics.
-also had a tri q back in the  90s that had one...more of a taxi light than landing. May have some pics of that somewhere. 
Mike Conlin 



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Jim Patillo <Logistics_engineering@...>
Date: 1/21/20 10:28 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Considering Very First Composite Project - Guidance Appreciated

It would be nice to hear from guys that actually installed a landing light on their Q and if they really got benefit from it.

I’ve never had one on my Q and have landed it many times in the dark., never saw a need. We were taught to land with no lights .......... just in case.

Jim
N46JP - Q200

Sent from Outer Space

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Corbin via Groups.Io <c_geiser@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 7:33:36 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Considering Very First Composite Project - Guidance Appreciated
 
Thanks guys!  I’m starting to think this is doable and within reason.  I’ll start with practicing on hearing/bending plexiglass while designing a hole to cut in lower cowling.

I have the light and mount already.

Corbin

On Jan 21, 2020, at 8:19 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

Following Sam's plan, you can shape the Plexiglas to a compound curve, matching that of your cowl cutout by using a heat gun and gentle pressure with your hands (where leather gloves). Once you have it shaped, you can trim it to the shape of the hole. You may want to lay up a lip around the hole, if you want the plex to bond flush to the cowl, or just bond the plex to the inside of the cowling, in front of the light.

Cheers,
Jay

--

Corbin 
N33QR

Robert Cringely
 

As a guy who has built several composite aircraft (KR-1, Q-1, and two Glasairs) I say modify your existing cowl. Only build a new cowl if you screw-up the old one or it just turns out to be too darned heavy, in which case use the MODIFIED cowl as a male pattern for a female mold.



On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 3:56 PM Corbin via Groups.Io <c_geiser=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
I am moving this conversation over here, from Facebook, as recommended by Jay (thanks Jay). 

I would like to add a LED landing light to my Q200.  I am leaning towards building the light flush into my lower cowling as I don't want to run wiring down the lower wing to install in the wheel pants.  Although, it would be really cool to have a flush mount light in both wheel pants.  I have also considered just mounting it under the cowling back towards the cowl flap.  However, flush would be preferred if it is not too difficult to learn how to do this.  

So...on to my question.  I am open to taking on this project so that I get a flush mount light as well as learn how to work with composite material.  Can I use my current lower cowling as a mold or should I look into cutting and building the light into the existing cowling?  

Open to suggestions and how to start learning about working with composite materials.

Corbin
 

Thanks Robert.  You speaking from experience is very helpful to me.  I have been out of town flying a Turbo 206 around and haven't had time to come back to this project yet.  It's been on my mind though.

Corbin

On February 4, 2020 at 11:41 AM, Robert Cringely <bob@...> wrote:

As a guy who has built several composite aircraft (KR-1, Q-1, and two Glasairs) I say modify your existing cowl. Only build a new cowl if you screw-up the old one or it just turns out to be too darned heavy, in which case use the MODIFIED cowl as a male pattern for a female mold.



On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 3:56 PM Corbin via Groups.Io <c_geiser=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
I am moving this conversation over here, from Facebook, as recommended by Jay (thanks Jay). 

I would like to add a LED landing light to my Q200.  I am leaning towards building the light flush into my lower cowling as I don't want to run wiring down the lower wing to install in the wheel pants.  Although, it would be really cool to have a flush mount light in both wheel pants.  I have also considered just mounting it under the cowling back towards the cowl flap.  However, flush would be preferred if it is not too difficult to learn how to do this.  

So...on to my question.  I am open to taking on this project so that I get a flush mount light as well as learn how to work with composite material.  Can I use my current lower cowling as a mold or should I look into cutting and building the light into the existing cowling?  

Open to suggestions and how to start learning about working with composite materials.






--

Corbin 
N33QR