Firewall with no engine


Jay Scheevel
 

I am into my annual this month. I have set up my engine so that it takes about 1 hour to remove and same to put it back on. I have removed it for 2 of my 3 annuals so far. I generally ask myself why I am doing this as I am removing it, but once I get it off, I feel much better about it, because I can get a really good look at everything on the back of the engine, thus a thorough inspection.

 

For some of you that saw my plane with the engine in place, here is what the firewall looks like without the engine.

 

Cheers,

Jay  Tri-Q2 N8WQ 190 hours.


One Sky Dog
 

Learned in England classified for 30 years, airlines learned again in the 70’s.

If it ain’t broke don’t fix it!


But if it is a 30 year old oil line replace it!

On Tuesday, October 5, 2021, 9:54 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

I am into my annual this month. I have set up my engine so that it takes about 1 hour to remove and same to put it back on. I have removed it for 2 of my 3 annuals so far. I generally ask myself why I am doing this as I am removing it, but once I get it off, I feel much better about it, because I can get a really good look at everything on the back of the engine, thus a thorough inspection.

 

For some of you that saw my plane with the engine in place, here is what the firewall looks like without the engine.

 

Cheers,

Jay  Tri-Q2 N8WQ 190 hours.


Jay Scheevel
 

Good point, Charlie. But I am not doing any fixing, just looking thoroughly and doing the necessary wear checking. My installation is a one-off, so I treat it like a prototype with respect to inspections.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of One Sky Dog via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, October 5, 2021 11:13 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Firewall with no engine

 

Learned in England classified for 30 years, airlines learned again in the 70’s.

 

If it ain’t broke don’t fix it!

 

 

But if it is a 30 year old oil line replace it!

 

Charlie






 

On Tuesday, October 5, 2021, 9:54 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

I am into my annual this month. I have set up my engine so that it takes about 1 hour to remove and same to put it back on. I have removed it for 2 of my 3 annuals so far. I generally ask myself why I am doing this as I am removing it, but once I get it off, I feel much better about it, because I can get a really good look at everything on the back of the engine, thus a thorough inspection.

 

For some of you that saw my plane with the engine in place, here is what the firewall looks like without the engine.

 

Cheers,

Jay  Tri-Q2 N8WQ 190 hours.


Richard Thomson
 

Great earth point Jay, wished I had done that.

Rich T.

On 05/10/2021 18:43, Jay Scheevel wrote:

Good point, Charlie. But I am not doing any fixing, just looking thoroughly and doing the necessary wear checking. My installation is a one-off, so I treat it like a prototype with respect to inspections.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of One Sky Dog via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, October 5, 2021 11:13 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Firewall with no engine

 

Learned in England classified for 30 years, airlines learned again in the 70’s.

 

If it ain’t broke don’t fix it!

 

 

But if it is a 30 year old oil line replace it!

 

Charlie






 

On Tuesday, October 5, 2021, 9:54 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

I am into my annual this month. I have set up my engine so that it takes about 1 hour to remove and same to put it back on. I have removed it for 2 of my 3 annuals so far. I generally ask myself why I am doing this as I am removing it, but once I get it off, I feel much better about it, because I can get a really good look at everything on the back of the engine, thus a thorough inspection.

 

For some of you that saw my plane with the engine in place, here is what the firewall looks like without the engine.

 

Cheers,

Jay  Tri-Q2 N8WQ 190 hours.


Jim Patillo
 

Jay,

I continually monitor everything visually and check  the necessary torques and clearances as required but rarely have to pull the engine. You don’t pull your car engine every time you tune it .

Since you don’t have a lot of time on your engine, maybe you should pull it this time, check everything and skip removal on the next annual. It’s just your ass in the seat and you know about that stuff. 

Make it a Great  Day. 

Jim
N46JP Q200


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Tuesday, October 5, 2021 10:43:14 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Firewall with no engine
 

Good point, Charlie. But I am not doing any fixing, just looking thoroughly and doing the necessary wear checking. My installation is a one-off, so I treat it like a prototype with respect to inspections.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of One Sky Dog via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, October 5, 2021 11:13 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Firewall with no engine

 

Learned in England classified for 30 years, airlines learned again in the 70’s.

 

If it ain’t broke don’t fix it!

 

 

But if it is a 30 year old oil line replace it!

 

Charlie






 

On Tuesday, October 5, 2021, 9:54 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

I am into my annual this month. I have set up my engine so that it takes about 1 hour to remove and same to put it back on. I have removed it for 2 of my 3 annuals so far. I generally ask myself why I am doing this as I am removing it, but once I get it off, I feel much better about it, because I can get a really good look at everything on the back of the engine, thus a thorough inspection.

 

For some of you that saw my plane with the engine in place, here is what the firewall looks like without the engine.

 

Cheers,

Jay  Tri-Q2 N8WQ 190 hours.


Jay Scheevel
 

I appreciate that point of view, Jim. I probably will do this less frequently once I know how things are wearing (like next year). When I do pull the engine, I take it off with the engine mount attached. All of the wiring to the engine remains intact and everything unplugs from the firewall. This is why it doesn’t take me long to remove and remount it. For now I am content with having a good look at things. For example, some things are impossible to see with the engine attached, such as the condition of rotor and distributor electrodes. Just too tight back there. A couple of hours of additional time on the annual is not a big commitment to be thorough.

 

Sometime, I hope you will get to see my installation. Perhaps I will make a trip your direction this fall.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Patillo
Sent: Tuesday, October 5, 2021 1:03 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Firewall with no engine

 

Jay,

 

I continually monitor everything visually and check  the necessary torques and clearances as required but rarely have to pull the engine. You don’t pull your car engine every time you tune it .

 

Since you don’t have a lot of time on your engine, maybe you should pull it this time, check everything and skip removal on the next annual. It’s just your ass in the seat and you know about that stuff. 

 

Make it a Great  Day. 

 

Jim

N46JP Q200


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Tuesday, October 5, 2021 10:43:14 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Firewall with no engine

 

Good point, Charlie. But I am not doing any fixing, just looking thoroughly and doing the necessary wear checking. My installation is a one-off, so I treat it like a prototype with respect to inspections.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of One Sky Dog via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, October 5, 2021 11:13 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Firewall with no engine

 

Learned in England classified for 30 years, airlines learned again in the 70’s.

 

If it ain’t broke don’t fix it!

 

 

But if it is a 30 year old oil line replace it!

 

Charlie





 

On Tuesday, October 5, 2021, 9:54 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

I am into my annual this month. I have set up my engine so that it takes about 1 hour to remove and same to put it back on. I have removed it for 2 of my 3 annuals so far. I generally ask myself why I am doing this as I am removing it, but once I get it off, I feel much better about it, because I can get a really good look at everything on the back of the engine, thus a thorough inspection.

 

For some of you that saw my plane with the engine in place, here is what the firewall looks like without the engine.

 

Cheers,

Jay  Tri-Q2 N8WQ 190 hours.


Jerry Marstall
 

Very nice!


On Tue, Oct 5, 2021, 3:18 PM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

I appreciate that point of view, Jim. I probably will do this less frequently once I know how things are wearing (like next year). When I do pull the engine, I take it off with the engine mount attached. All of the wiring to the engine remains intact and everything unplugs from the firewall. This is why it doesn’t take me long to remove and remount it. For now I am content with having a good look at things. For example, some things are impossible to see with the engine attached, such as the condition of rotor and distributor electrodes. Just too tight back there. A couple of hours of additional time on the annual is not a big commitment to be thorough.

 

Sometime, I hope you will get to see my installation. Perhaps I will make a trip your direction this fall.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Patillo
Sent: Tuesday, October 5, 2021 1:03 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Firewall with no engine

 

Jay,

 

I continually monitor everything visually and check  the necessary torques and clearances as required but rarely have to pull the engine. You don’t pull your car engine every time you tune it .

 

Since you don’t have a lot of time on your engine, maybe you should pull it this time, check everything and skip removal on the next annual. It’s just your ass in the seat and you know about that stuff. 

 

Make it a Great  Day. 

 

Jim

N46JP Q200


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Tuesday, October 5, 2021 10:43:14 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Firewall with no engine

 

Good point, Charlie. But I am not doing any fixing, just looking thoroughly and doing the necessary wear checking. My installation is a one-off, so I treat it like a prototype with respect to inspections.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of One Sky Dog via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, October 5, 2021 11:13 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Firewall with no engine

 

Learned in England classified for 30 years, airlines learned again in the 70’s.

 

If it ain’t broke don’t fix it!

 

 

But if it is a 30 year old oil line replace it!

 

Charlie





 

On Tuesday, October 5, 2021, 9:54 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

I am into my annual this month. I have set up my engine so that it takes about 1 hour to remove and same to put it back on. I have removed it for 2 of my 3 annuals so far. I generally ask myself why I am doing this as I am removing it, but once I get it off, I feel much better about it, because I can get a really good look at everything on the back of the engine, thus a thorough inspection.

 

For some of you that saw my plane with the engine in place, here is what the firewall looks like without the engine.

 

Cheers,

Jay  Tri-Q2 N8WQ 190 hours.


Jon Finley
 

Mike Busch has put a really good video/article together regarding 'maintenance minimalism' or 'maintenance-induced failures'. I think it's worth watching. Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHwtkZNSlPA

I've also built/flown behind several alternative/auto engines and felt that it was mandatory to keep a VERY close eye on them. I wore out MANY cowling nutplates/screws pulling that thing off after nearly every flight to check things (before I could afford quarter-turn fasteners).  In this scenario many items under the cowling (custom brackets, mounts, etc.) have zero 'fleet hours' on them - that's what the builder is accruing.  For me, this 'problem' was amplified since I was a hack.  At one point, I believed that if an item survived 20-30 hours it was going to last forever. Then I learned about how metal fatigues and started thinking I needed to watch things CLOSER the more hours I put on them.  Doh!!! :-)

So, IMO, there are some different scenarios that don't fit into the same mold. No doubt that finding a balance is the trick.

Now that I fly a Lycoming, I feel a bit guilty that I only remove the cowling every 50-75 hours (for an oil change). :-)

Jon Finley
Somewhere in the Southwest flying an RV-4


Jay Scheevel
 

Thanks Jon,

 

I had seen this video previously and it has some good advice, so I watched it again. I have two of Mike Busch’s books and have absorbed them, as well as most of John Schwanner’s Engine maintenance material. All very good stuff. It is all focused on LyCon engines as would be expected given the number of those operating and the tendency of homebuilders with odd engines to do their own maintenance.

 

I have more or less the same philosophy as you have with respect to treating my Jabiru as an alternative engine. I put in 1/4 turn fasteners on the cowl at the start, and my engine can be removed by unplugging everything at the firewall and never having to put a wrench on the backside of the firewall.

 

I consider my plane and engine combination to be a prototype, so I treat it that way. So far, my ad hoc engineering has been reliable, but the best way to keep it that way is to look things over very carefully. I have almost 200 hours on it so far, so I am getting close to entering the “goldilocks zone” very soon. I will probably taper off on the invasive inspections as time goes by, but I like being my own worst critic and that makes me err on the tedious side of inspections.

 

Thanks for your carefully thought out note and for sharing your experience over the years.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jon Finley
Sent: Wednesday, October 6, 2021 8:09 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Firewall with no engine

 

Mike Busch has put a really good video/article together regarding 'maintenance minimalism' or 'maintenance-induced failures'. I think it's worth watching. Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHwtkZNSlPA

I've also built/flown behind several alternative/auto engines and felt that it was mandatory to keep a VERY close eye on them. I wore out MANY cowling nutplates/screws pulling that thing off after nearly every flight to check things (before I could afford quarter-turn fasteners).  In this scenario many items under the cowling (custom brackets, mounts, etc.) have zero 'fleet hours' on them - that's what the builder is accruing.  For me, this 'problem' was amplified since I was a hack.  At one point, I believed that if an item survived 20-30 hours it was going to last forever. Then I learned about how metal fatigues and started thinking I needed to watch things CLOSER the more hours I put on them.  Doh!!! :-)

So, IMO, there are some different scenarios that don't fit into the same mold. No doubt that finding a balance is the trick.

Now that I fly a Lycoming, I feel a bit guilty that I only remove the cowling every 50-75 hours (for an oil change). :-)

Jon Finley
Somewhere in the Southwest flying an RV-4


Mike Dwyer
 

Your firewall looks great.  In my hangar I keep a "come along" attached to an overhead beam.  With that I can have the engine off the Q200 in about 30 min.  
Fly Safe,
Mike Dwyer Q200

On Tue, Oct 5, 2021, 12:54 PM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

I am into my annual this month. I have set up my engine so that it takes about 1 hour to remove and same to put it back on. I have removed it for 2 of my 3 annuals so far. I generally ask myself why I am doing this as I am removing it, but once I get it off, I feel much better about it, because I can get a really good look at everything on the back of the engine, thus a thorough inspection.

 

For some of you that saw my plane with the engine in place, here is what the firewall looks like without the engine.

 

Cheers,

Jay  Tri-Q2 N8WQ 190 hours.