Re designed midspan elevator pivot


Jay Scheevel
 

As some of you may remember, I redesigned the mid-span pivot for the elevators on my Q-2, essentially retaining none of the original design, excepting the BL position of the pivot on the span of the elevator. I was motivated to do this re design based on a fatal accident caused by the failure of a midspan pivot pin on the original design. NTSB determined that the pivot pin failed as a result of corrosion and metal fatigue.

 

I wrote up my re design document at the time and posted it on the Yahoo group and labelled it as untested and unproven. I now have almost 200 flight hours on this design and it retains its original smooth operation, shows no wear and has demonstrated the design intent of superior strength, low friction, and zero corrosion. In addition, I can visually inspect all critical components of this pivot  in a few seconds during a preflight. 

 

So I am pleased to report that this re design is now a tested modification. I am reposting my design document for anyone who is interested.

 

Cheers,

Jay Scheevel  Tri-Q2 N8WQ 200 hours


Mike Dwyer
 

Really good design Pat.  I don't think an old design elevator could be retrofitted with this new design without building new elevators.  Is that correct?
Thanks,
Mike Dwyer Q200

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 7:53 PM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

As some of you may remember, I redesigned the mid-span pivot for the elevators on my Q-2, essentially retaining none of the original design, excepting the BL position of the pivot on the span of the elevator. I was motivated to do this re design based on a fatal accident caused by the failure of a midspan pivot pin on the original design. NTSB determined that the pivot pin failed as a result of corrosion and metal fatigue.

 

I wrote up my re design document at the time and posted it on the Yahoo group and labelled it as untested and unproven. I now have almost 200 flight hours on this design and it retains its original smooth operation, shows no wear and has demonstrated the design intent of superior strength, low friction, and zero corrosion. In addition, I can visually inspect all critical components of this pivot  in a few seconds during a preflight. 

 

So I am pleased to report that this re design is now a tested modification. I am reposting my design document for anyone who is interested.

 

Cheers,

Jay Scheevel  Tri-Q2 N8WQ 200 hours


Sam Hoskins
 

Kay, how about archiving it on the Files section of the Q-List?

Sam

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 6:53 PM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

As some of you may remember, I redesigned the mid-span pivot for the elevators on my Q-2, essentially retaining none of the original design, excepting the BL position of the pivot on the span of the elevator. I was motivated to do this re design based on a fatal accident caused by the failure of a midspan pivot pin on the original design. NTSB determined that the pivot pin failed as a result of corrosion and metal fatigue.

 

I wrote up my re design document at the time and posted it on the Yahoo group and labelled it as untested and unproven. I now have almost 200 flight hours on this design and it retains its original smooth operation, shows no wear and has demonstrated the design intent of superior strength, low friction, and zero corrosion. In addition, I can visually inspect all critical components of this pivot  in a few seconds during a preflight. 

 

So I am pleased to report that this re design is now a tested modification. I am reposting my design document for anyone who is interested.

 

Cheers,

Jay Scheevel  Tri-Q2 N8WQ 200 hours


Mike Dwyer
 

I meant Jay... Would blame the spell checker but it's my fault!
Fly Safe,
Mike 

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 10:50 PM Mike Dwyer via groups.io <q200pilot=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Really good design Pat.  I don't think an old design elevator could be retrofitted with this new design without building new elevators.  Is that correct?
Thanks,
Mike Dwyer Q200

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 7:53 PM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

As some of you may remember, I redesigned the mid-span pivot for the elevators on my Q-2, essentially retaining none of the original design, excepting the BL position of the pivot on the span of the elevator. I was motivated to do this re design based on a fatal accident caused by the failure of a midspan pivot pin on the original design. NTSB determined that the pivot pin failed as a result of corrosion and metal fatigue.

 

I wrote up my re design document at the time and posted it on the Yahoo group and labelled it as untested and unproven. I now have almost 200 flight hours on this design and it retains its original smooth operation, shows no wear and has demonstrated the design intent of superior strength, low friction, and zero corrosion. In addition, I can visually inspect all critical components of this pivot  in a few seconds during a preflight. 

 

So I am pleased to report that this re design is now a tested modification. I am reposting my design document for anyone who is interested.

 

Cheers,

Jay Scheevel  Tri-Q2 N8WQ 200 hours


Sam Hoskins
 

Jay.


On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 9:55 PM Sam Hoskins via groups.io <sam.hoskins=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Kay, how about archiving it on the Files section of the Q-List?

Sam

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 6:53 PM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

As some of you may remember, I redesigned the mid-span pivot for the elevators on my Q-2, essentially retaining none of the original design, excepting the BL position of the pivot on the span of the elevator. I was motivated to do this re design based on a fatal accident caused by the failure of a midspan pivot pin on the original design. NTSB determined that the pivot pin failed as a result of corrosion and metal fatigue.

 

I wrote up my re design document at the time and posted it on the Yahoo group and labelled it as untested and unproven. I now have almost 200 flight hours on this design and it retains its original smooth operation, shows no wear and has demonstrated the design intent of superior strength, low friction, and zero corrosion. In addition, I can visually inspect all critical components of this pivot  in a few seconds during a preflight. 

 

So I am pleased to report that this re design is now a tested modification. I am reposting my design document for anyone who is interested.

 

Cheers,

Jay Scheevel  Tri-Q2 N8WQ 200 hours


Jay Scheevel
 





I will put it in the files section, Sam.

 You are right Mike. Retrofitting would probably be impossible unless you build new elevators, but if someone is working on an unbuilt kit, it would work. Some have been known to build new elevators too. Right, Sam? 

I have an elevator design on my computer that would eliminate the sparrow strainer that I may build some day. Will go with the same design for the pivot if I build those.

Cheers,
Jay 


On Jan 11, 2022, at 9:04 PM, Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...> wrote:


Jay.

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 9:55 PM Sam Hoskins via groups.io <sam.hoskins=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Kay, how about archiving it on the Files section of the Q-List?

Sam

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 6:53 PM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

As some of you may remember, I redesigned the mid-span pivot for the elevators on my Q-2, essentially retaining none of the original design, excepting the BL position of the pivot on the span of the elevator. I was motivated to do this re design based on a fatal accident caused by the failure of a midspan pivot pin on the original design. NTSB determined that the pivot pin failed as a result of corrosion and metal fatigue.

 

I wrote up my re design document at the time and posted it on the Yahoo group and labelled it as untested and unproven. I now have almost 200 flight hours on this design and it retains its original smooth operation, shows no wear and has demonstrated the design intent of superior strength, low friction, and zero corrosion. In addition, I can visually inspect all critical components of this pivot  in a few seconds during a preflight. 

 

So I am pleased to report that this re design is now a tested modification. I am reposting my design document for anyone who is interested.

 

Cheers,

Jay Scheevel  Tri-Q2 N8WQ 200 hours


One Sky Dog
 

Jay,

Nice hinge design! 

Am I to understand you might have determined the elevator (airfoil) shape that would provide the same proportional down force without the local sparrow strainer drag?

Busting out the hot wire. But going flying today light winds high in the 60’s

On Tuesday, January 11, 2022, 11:23 PM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:





 I will put it in the files section, Sam.

 You are right Mike. Retrofitting would probably be impossible unless you build new elevators, but if someone is working on an unbuilt kit, it would work. Some have been known to build new elevators too. Right, Sam? 

I have an elevator design on my computer that would eliminate the sparrow strainer that I may build some day. Will go with the same design for the pivot if I build those.

Cheers,
Jay 


On Jan 11, 2022, at 9:04 PM, Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...> wrote:


Jay.

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 9:55 PM Sam Hoskins via groups.io <sam.hoskins=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Kay, how about archiving it on the Files section of the Q-List?

Sam

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 6:53 PM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

As some of you may remember, I redesigned the mid-span pivot for the elevators on my Q-2, essentially retaining none of the original design, excepting the BL position of the pivot on the span of the elevator. I was motivated to do this re design based on a fatal accident caused by the failure of a midspan pivot pin on the original design. NTSB determined that the pivot pin failed as a result of corrosion and metal fatigue.

 

I wrote up my re design document at the time and posted it on the Yahoo group and labelled it as untested and unproven. I now have almost 200 flight hours on this design and it retains its original smooth operation, shows no wear and has demonstrated the design intent of superior strength, low friction, and zero corrosion. In addition, I can visually inspect all critical components of this pivot  in a few seconds during a preflight. 

 

So I am pleased to report that this re design is now a tested modification. I am reposting my design document for anyone who is interested.

 

Cheers,

Jay Scheevel  Tri-Q2 N8WQ 200 hours


Richard Thomson
 

Hi Jay,

Always liked this design, you have put some careful thought into aspects of your TriQ.

Would have thought it could be retrofitted to an existing set up, as a secondary support say 4 inches inboard of the current midspan. The doubler tube could be added fairly easily.

At least If the pin or the mounting or the bonded joint failed it would continue to support.

Rich T.

On 12/01/2022 06:23, Jay Scheevel wrote:




 I will put it in the files section, Sam.

 You are right Mike. Retrofitting would probably be impossible unless you build new elevators, but if someone is working on an unbuilt kit, it would work. Some have been known to build new elevators too. Right, Sam? 

I have an elevator design on my computer that would eliminate the sparrow strainer that I may build some day. Will go with the same design for the pivot if I build those.

Cheers,
Jay 


On Jan 11, 2022, at 9:04 PM, Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...> wrote:


Jay.

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 9:55 PM Sam Hoskins via groups.io <sam.hoskins=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Kay, how about archiving it on the Files section of the Q-List?

Sam

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 6:53 PM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

As some of you may remember, I redesigned the mid-span pivot for the elevators on my Q-2, essentially retaining none of the original design, excepting the BL position of the pivot on the span of the elevator. I was motivated to do this re design based on a fatal accident caused by the failure of a midspan pivot pin on the original design. NTSB determined that the pivot pin failed as a result of corrosion and metal fatigue.

 

I wrote up my re design document at the time and posted it on the Yahoo group and labelled it as untested and unproven. I now have almost 200 flight hours on this design and it retains its original smooth operation, shows no wear and has demonstrated the design intent of superior strength, low friction, and zero corrosion. In addition, I can visually inspect all critical components of this pivot  in a few seconds during a preflight. 

 

So I am pleased to report that this re design is now a tested modification. I am reposting my design document for anyone who is interested.

 

Cheers,

Jay Scheevel  Tri-Q2 N8WQ 200 hours


Frankenbird Vern
 

 Jay.. would you send you elevator profile plots? My aircraft will need both elevators built and adding a third pivot is already part of my canard...it has the pads bonded to the aft spar. PM if you prefer.

As for my wing I have one aileron..the other was never built that I can see. The difference might be I have the GU canard airfoil (being Dragonfly of course). I don't remember if you have the LS1 or GU canard for your Tri-Q.

 You see why my project from the git go is a true Frankenbird..pieces here and there..the kit was picked over and who knows what parts were left behind. No matter..it is all Shop time anyway and I never intended to build a clone.  

Vern 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 12:23 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Re designed midspan elevator pivot
 




I will put it in the files section, Sam.

 You are right Mike. Retrofitting would probably be impossible unless you build new elevators, but if someone is working on an unbuilt kit, it would work. Some have been known to build new elevators too. Right, Sam? 

I have an elevator design on my computer that would eliminate the sparrow strainer that I may build some day. Will go with the same design for the pivot if I build those.

Cheers,
Jay 


On Jan 11, 2022, at 9:04 PM, Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...> wrote:


Jay.

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 9:55 PM Sam Hoskins via groups.io <sam.hoskins=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Kay, how about archiving it on the Files section of the Q-List?

Sam

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 6:53 PM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

As some of you may remember, I redesigned the mid-span pivot for the elevators on my Q-2, essentially retaining none of the original design, excepting the BL position of the pivot on the span of the elevator. I was motivated to do this re design based on a fatal accident caused by the failure of a midspan pivot pin on the original design. NTSB determined that the pivot pin failed as a result of corrosion and metal fatigue.

 

I wrote up my re design document at the time and posted it on the Yahoo group and labelled it as untested and unproven. I now have almost 200 flight hours on this design and it retains its original smooth operation, shows no wear and has demonstrated the design intent of superior strength, low friction, and zero corrosion. In addition, I can visually inspect all critical components of this pivot  in a few seconds during a preflight. 

 

So I am pleased to report that this re design is now a tested modification. I am reposting my design document for anyone who is interested.

 

Cheers,

Jay Scheevel  Tri-Q2 N8WQ 200 hours


Jay Scheevel
 

Put a couple of documents in the files. Uploaded the elevator hinge design from yesterday and also uploaded a document showing the profile and pressure distribution models for a revised elevator profile for the LS1 that would eliminate the need for the sparrow strainers. I can talk more about this with respect to the changes in canard performance if people are interested.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of One Sky Dog via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 3:16 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io; main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Re designed midspan elevator pivot

 

Jay,

 

Nice hinge design! 

 

Am I to understand you might have determined the elevator (airfoil) shape that would provide the same proportional down force without the local sparrow strainer drag?

 

Busting out the hot wire. But going flying today light winds high in the 60’s

 

One Sky Dog




 

On Tuesday, January 11, 2022, 11:23 PM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:









 I will put it in the files section, Sam.

 

 You are right Mike. Retrofitting would probably be impossible unless you build new elevators, but if someone is working on an unbuilt kit, it would work. Some have been known to build new elevators too. Right, Sam? 

 

I have an elevator design on my computer that would eliminate the sparrow strainer that I may build some day. Will go with the same design for the pivot if I build those.

 

Cheers,

Jay 



On Jan 11, 2022, at 9:04 PM, Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...> wrote:



Jay.

 

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 9:55 PM Sam Hoskins via groups.io <sam.hoskins=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Kay, how about archiving it on the Files section of the Q-List?

 

Sam

 

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 6:53 PM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

As some of you may remember, I redesigned the mid-span pivot for the elevators on my Q-2, essentially retaining none of the original design, excepting the BL position of the pivot on the span of the elevator. I was motivated to do this re design based on a fatal accident caused by the failure of a midspan pivot pin on the original design. NTSB determined that the pivot pin failed as a result of corrosion and metal fatigue.

 

I wrote up my re design document at the time and posted it on the Yahoo group and labelled it as untested and unproven. I now have almost 200 flight hours on this design and it retains its original smooth operation, shows no wear and has demonstrated the design intent of superior strength, low friction, and zero corrosion. In addition, I can visually inspect all critical components of this pivot  in a few seconds during a preflight. 

 

So I am pleased to report that this re design is now a tested modification. I am reposting my design document for anyone who is interested.

 

Cheers,

Jay Scheevel  Tri-Q2 N8WQ 200 hours


Jay Scheevel
 

Hi Vern,

 

If you are using the GU airfoil design, which I think you are, you will not need a sparrow strainer. Charlie can correct me if I am wrong, but I think that is the case.

 

Cheers,
Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 10:33 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Re designed midspan elevator pivot

 

 Jay.. would you send you elevator profile plots? My aircraft will need both elevators built and adding a third pivot is already part of my canard...it has the pads bonded to the aft spar. PM if you prefer.

 

As for my wing I have one aileron..the other was never built that I can see. The difference might be I have the GU canard airfoil (being Dragonfly of course). I don't remember if you have the LS1 or GU canard for your Tri-Q.

 

 You see why my project from the git go is a true Frankenbird..pieces here and there..the kit was picked over and who knows what parts were left behind. No matter..it is all Shop time anyway and I never intended to build a clone.  

 

Vern 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 12:23 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Re designed midspan elevator pivot

 









I will put it in the files section, Sam.

 

 You are right Mike. Retrofitting would probably be impossible unless you build new elevators, but if someone is working on an unbuilt kit, it would work. Some have been known to build new elevators too. Right, Sam? 

 

I have an elevator design on my computer that would eliminate the sparrow strainer that I may build some day. Will go with the same design for the pivot if I build those.

 

Cheers,

Jay 



On Jan 11, 2022, at 9:04 PM, Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...> wrote:



Jay.

 

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 9:55 PM Sam Hoskins via groups.io <sam.hoskins=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Kay, how about archiving it on the Files section of the Q-List?

 

Sam

 

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 6:53 PM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

As some of you may remember, I redesigned the mid-span pivot for the elevators on my Q-2, essentially retaining none of the original design, excepting the BL position of the pivot on the span of the elevator. I was motivated to do this re design based on a fatal accident caused by the failure of a midspan pivot pin on the original design. NTSB determined that the pivot pin failed as a result of corrosion and metal fatigue.

 

I wrote up my re design document at the time and posted it on the Yahoo group and labelled it as untested and unproven. I now have almost 200 flight hours on this design and it retains its original smooth operation, shows no wear and has demonstrated the design intent of superior strength, low friction, and zero corrosion. In addition, I can visually inspect all critical components of this pivot  in a few seconds during a preflight. 

 

So I am pleased to report that this re design is now a tested modification. I am reposting my design document for anyone who is interested.

 

Cheers,

Jay Scheevel  Tri-Q2 N8WQ 200 hours


One Sky Dog
 

Jay,

Sparrow strainers are required on my Dragonfly.

On Wednesday, January 12, 2022, 10:59 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

Hi Vern,

 

If you are using the GU airfoil design, which I think you are, you will not need a sparrow strainer. Charlie can correct me if I am wrong, but I think that is the case.

 

Cheers,
Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 10:33 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Re designed midspan elevator pivot

 

 Jay.. would you send you elevator profile plots? My aircraft will need both elevators built and adding a third pivot is already part of my canard...it has the pads bonded to the aft spar. PM if you prefer.

 

As for my wing I have one aileron..the other was never built that I can see. The difference might be I have the GU canard airfoil (being Dragonfly of course). I don't remember if you have the LS1 or GU canard for your Tri-Q.

 

 You see why my project from the git go is a true Frankenbird..pieces here and there..the kit was picked over and who knows what parts were left behind. No matter..it is all Shop time anyway and I never intended to build a clone.  

 

Vern 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 12:23 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Re designed midspan elevator pivot

 









I will put it in the files section, Sam.

 

 You are right Mike. Retrofitting would probably be impossible unless you build new elevators, but if someone is working on an unbuilt kit, it would work. Some have been known to build new elevators too. Right, Sam? 

 

I have an elevator design on my computer that would eliminate the sparrow strainer that I may build some day. Will go with the same design for the pivot if I build those.

 

Cheers,

Jay 



On Jan 11, 2022, at 9:04 PM, Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...> wrote:



Jay.

 

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 9:55 PM Sam Hoskins via groups.io <sam.hoskins=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Kay, how about archiving it on the Files section of the Q-List?

 

Sam

 

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 6:53 PM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

As some of you may remember, I redesigned the mid-span pivot for the elevators on my Q-2, essentially retaining none of the original design, excepting the BL position of the pivot on the span of the elevator. I was motivated to do this re design based on a fatal accident caused by the failure of a midspan pivot pin on the original design. NTSB determined that the pivot pin failed as a result of corrosion and metal fatigue.

 

I wrote up my re design document at the time and posted it on the Yahoo group and labelled it as untested and unproven. I now have almost 200 flight hours on this design and it retains its original smooth operation, shows no wear and has demonstrated the design intent of superior strength, low friction, and zero corrosion. In addition, I can visually inspect all critical components of this pivot  in a few seconds during a preflight. 

 

So I am pleased to report that this re design is now a tested modification. I am reposting my design document for anyone who is interested.

 

Cheers,

Jay Scheevel  Tri-Q2 N8WQ 200 hours


Jay Scheevel
 

There you go, Vern. Best contact Charlie for the details on that. My elevator design only applies to the LS1, so would be inappropriate for the GU dragonfly type wing.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of One Sky Dog via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 11:48 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Re designed midspan elevator pivot

 

Jay,

 

Sparrow strainers are required on my Dragonfly.

 

Charlie




 

On Wednesday, January 12, 2022, 10:59 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

Hi Vern,

 

If you are using the GU airfoil design, which I think you are, you will not need a sparrow strainer. Charlie can correct me if I am wrong, but I think that is the case.

 

Cheers,
Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 10:33 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Re designed midspan elevator pivot

 

 Jay.. would you send you elevator profile plots? My aircraft will need both elevators built and adding a third pivot is already part of my canard...it has the pads bonded to the aft spar. PM if you prefer.

 

As for my wing I have one aileron..the other was never built that I can see. The difference might be I have the GU canard airfoil (being Dragonfly of course). I don't remember if you have the LS1 or GU canard for your Tri-Q.

 

 You see why my project from the git go is a true Frankenbird..pieces here and there..the kit was picked over and who knows what parts were left behind. No matter..it is all Shop time anyway and I never intended to build a clone.  

 

Vern 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 12:23 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Re designed midspan elevator pivot

 









I will put it in the files section, Sam.

 

 You are right Mike. Retrofitting would probably be impossible unless you build new elevators, but if someone is working on an unbuilt kit, it would work. Some have been known to build new elevators too. Right, Sam? 

 

I have an elevator design on my computer that would eliminate the sparrow strainer that I may build some day. Will go with the same design for the pivot if I build those.

 

Cheers,

Jay 

 

On Jan 11, 2022, at 9:04 PM, Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...> wrote:



Jay.

 

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 9:55 PM Sam Hoskins via groups.io <sam.hoskins=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Kay, how about archiving it on the Files section of the Q-List?

 

Sam

 

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 6:53 PM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

As some of you may remember, I redesigned the mid-span pivot for the elevators on my Q-2, essentially retaining none of the original design, excepting the BL position of the pivot on the span of the elevator. I was motivated to do this re design based on a fatal accident caused by the failure of a midspan pivot pin on the original design. NTSB determined that the pivot pin failed as a result of corrosion and metal fatigue.

 

I wrote up my re design document at the time and posted it on the Yahoo group and labelled it as untested and unproven. I now have almost 200 flight hours on this design and it retains its original smooth operation, shows no wear and has demonstrated the design intent of superior strength, low friction, and zero corrosion. In addition, I can visually inspect all critical components of this pivot  in a few seconds during a preflight. 

 

So I am pleased to report that this re design is now a tested modification. I am reposting my design document for anyone who is interested.

 

Cheers,

Jay Scheevel  Tri-Q2 N8WQ 200 hours


Frankenbird Vern
 

 Yer the man! Thank you. I knew the GU has to have strainers. I see the profile difference in the views.


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 2:06 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Re designed midspan elevator pivot
 

There you go, Vern. Best contact Charlie for the details on that. My elevator design only applies to the LS1, so would be inappropriate for the GU dragonfly type wing.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of One Sky Dog via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 11:48 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Re designed midspan elevator pivot

 

Jay,

 

Sparrow strainers are required on my Dragonfly.

 

Charlie




 

On Wednesday, January 12, 2022, 10:59 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

Hi Vern,

 

If you are using the GU airfoil design, which I think you are, you will not need a sparrow strainer. Charlie can correct me if I am wrong, but I think that is the case.

 

Cheers,
Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 10:33 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Re designed midspan elevator pivot

 

 Jay.. would you send you elevator profile plots? My aircraft will need both elevators built and adding a third pivot is already part of my canard...it has the pads bonded to the aft spar. PM if you prefer.

 

As for my wing I have one aileron..the other was never built that I can see. The difference might be I have the GU canard airfoil (being Dragonfly of course). I don't remember if you have the LS1 or GU canard for your Tri-Q.

 

 You see why my project from the git go is a true Frankenbird..pieces here and there..the kit was picked over and who knows what parts were left behind. No matter..it is all Shop time anyway and I never intended to build a clone.  

 

Vern 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 12:23 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Re designed midspan elevator pivot

 









I will put it in the files section, Sam.

 

 You are right Mike. Retrofitting would probably be impossible unless you build new elevators, but if someone is working on an unbuilt kit, it would work. Some have been known to build new elevators too. Right, Sam? 

 

I have an elevator design on my computer that would eliminate the sparrow strainer that I may build some day. Will go with the same design for the pivot if I build those.

 

Cheers,

Jay 

 

On Jan 11, 2022, at 9:04 PM, Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...> wrote:



Jay.

 

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 9:55 PM Sam Hoskins via groups.io <sam.hoskins=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Kay, how about archiving it on the Files section of the Q-List?

 

Sam

 

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 6:53 PM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

As some of you may remember, I redesigned the mid-span pivot for the elevators on my Q-2, essentially retaining none of the original design, excepting the BL position of the pivot on the span of the elevator. I was motivated to do this re design based on a fatal accident caused by the failure of a midspan pivot pin on the original design. NTSB determined that the pivot pin failed as a result of corrosion and metal fatigue.

 

I wrote up my re design document at the time and posted it on the Yahoo group and labelled it as untested and unproven. I now have almost 200 flight hours on this design and it retains its original smooth operation, shows no wear and has demonstrated the design intent of superior strength, low friction, and zero corrosion. In addition, I can visually inspect all critical components of this pivot  in a few seconds during a preflight. 

 

So I am pleased to report that this re design is now a tested modification. I am reposting my design document for anyone who is interested.

 

Cheers,

Jay Scheevel  Tri-Q2 N8WQ 200 hours


Stephen Theron
 

Hi All

Busy restoring a Tri Quickie Revmaster that was standing for about 17 years. 

Regarding the mid span hinge, when disassembling the left hinge it needed to be forced to remove the elevator and thus replaced. On the right hand side I’m not sure the hinge was ever engaged. 

Is there a way of checking if the elevator is correctly engaged in the hinge?

Any help would be appreciated. I’m based in Johannesburg, South Africa 🇿🇦 

Regards

Stephen Theron 
+27 84 699 1684

On 12 Jan 2022, at 20:48, One Sky Dog via groups.io <Oneskydog@...> wrote:

 Jay,

Sparrow strainers are required on my Dragonfly.

Charlie





On Wednesday, January 12, 2022, 10:59 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

Hi Vern,

 

If you are using the GU airfoil design, which I think you are, you will not need a sparrow strainer. Charlie can correct me if I am wrong, but I think that is the case.

 

Cheers,
Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 10:33 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Re designed midspan elevator pivot

 

 Jay.. would you send you elevator profile plots? My aircraft will need both elevators built and adding a third pivot is already part of my canard...it has the pads bonded to the aft spar. PM if you prefer.

 

As for my wing I have one aileron..the other was never built that I can see. The difference might be I have the GU canard airfoil (being Dragonfly of course). I don't remember if you have the LS1 or GU canard for your Tri-Q.

 

 You see why my project from the git go is a true Frankenbird..pieces here and there..the kit was picked over and who knows what parts were left behind. No matter..it is all Shop time anyway and I never intended to build a clone.  

 

Vern 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 12:23 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Re designed midspan elevator pivot

 









I will put it in the files section, Sam.

 

 You are right Mike. Retrofitting would probably be impossible unless you build new elevators, but if someone is working on an unbuilt kit, it would work. Some have been known to build new elevators too. Right, Sam? 

 

I have an elevator design on my computer that would eliminate the sparrow strainer that I may build some day. Will go with the same design for the pivot if I build those.

 

Cheers,

Jay 



On Jan 11, 2022, at 9:04 PM, Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...> wrote:



Jay.

 

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 9:55 PM Sam Hoskins via groups.io <sam.hoskins=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Kay, how about archiving it on the Files section of the Q-List?

 

Sam

 

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 6:53 PM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

As some of you may remember, I redesigned the mid-span pivot for the elevators on my Q-2, essentially retaining none of the original design, excepting the BL position of the pivot on the span of the elevator. I was motivated to do this re design based on a fatal accident caused by the failure of a midspan pivot pin on the original design. NTSB determined that the pivot pin failed as a result of corrosion and metal fatigue.

 

I wrote up my re design document at the time and posted it on the Yahoo group and labelled it as untested and unproven. I now have almost 200 flight hours on this design and it retains its original smooth operation, shows no wear and has demonstrated the design intent of superior strength, low friction, and zero corrosion. In addition, I can visually inspect all critical components of this pivot  in a few seconds during a preflight. 

 

So I am pleased to report that this re design is now a tested modification. I am reposting my design document for anyone who is interested.

 

Cheers,

Jay Scheevel  Tri-Q2 N8WQ 200 hours


Mike Dwyer
 

Yes.  As part of my standard preflight I go to the midspan hinge area and press up and down on the elevator.  No movement is good.
Mike Dwyer Q200

On Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 4:11 AM Stephen Theron <steviet888@...> wrote:
Hi All

Busy restoring a Tri Quickie Revmaster that was standing for about 17 years. 

Regarding the mid span hinge, when disassembling the left hinge it needed to be forced to remove the elevator and thus replaced. On the right hand side I’m not sure the hinge was ever engaged. 

Is there a way of checking if the elevator is correctly engaged in the hinge?

Any help would be appreciated. I’m based in Johannesburg, South Africa 🇿🇦 

Regards

Stephen Theron 
+27 84 699 1684

On 12 Jan 2022, at 20:48, One Sky Dog via groups.io <Oneskydog=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

 Jay,

Sparrow strainers are required on my Dragonfly.

Charlie





On Wednesday, January 12, 2022, 10:59 AM, Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

Hi Vern,

 

If you are using the GU airfoil design, which I think you are, you will not need a sparrow strainer. Charlie can correct me if I am wrong, but I think that is the case.

 

Cheers,
Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 10:33 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Re designed midspan elevator pivot

 

 Jay.. would you send you elevator profile plots? My aircraft will need both elevators built and adding a third pivot is already part of my canard...it has the pads bonded to the aft spar. PM if you prefer.

 

As for my wing I have one aileron..the other was never built that I can see. The difference might be I have the GU canard airfoil (being Dragonfly of course). I don't remember if you have the LS1 or GU canard for your Tri-Q.

 

 You see why my project from the git go is a true Frankenbird..pieces here and there..the kit was picked over and who knows what parts were left behind. No matter..it is all Shop time anyway and I never intended to build a clone.  

 

Vern 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 12:23 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Re designed midspan elevator pivot

 









I will put it in the files section, Sam.

 

 You are right Mike. Retrofitting would probably be impossible unless you build new elevators, but if someone is working on an unbuilt kit, it would work. Some have been known to build new elevators too. Right, Sam? 

 

I have an elevator design on my computer that would eliminate the sparrow strainer that I may build some day. Will go with the same design for the pivot if I build those.

 

Cheers,

Jay 



On Jan 11, 2022, at 9:04 PM, Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...> wrote:



Jay.

 

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 9:55 PM Sam Hoskins via groups.io <sam.hoskins=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Kay, how about archiving it on the Files section of the Q-List?

 

Sam

 

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 6:53 PM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

As some of you may remember, I redesigned the mid-span pivot for the elevators on my Q-2, essentially retaining none of the original design, excepting the BL position of the pivot on the span of the elevator. I was motivated to do this re design based on a fatal accident caused by the failure of a midspan pivot pin on the original design. NTSB determined that the pivot pin failed as a result of corrosion and metal fatigue.

 

I wrote up my re design document at the time and posted it on the Yahoo group and labelled it as untested and unproven. I now have almost 200 flight hours on this design and it retains its original smooth operation, shows no wear and has demonstrated the design intent of superior strength, low friction, and zero corrosion. In addition, I can visually inspect all critical components of this pivot  in a few seconds during a preflight. 

 

So I am pleased to report that this re design is now a tested modification. I am reposting my design document for anyone who is interested.

 

Cheers,

Jay Scheevel  Tri-Q2 N8WQ 200 hours


Michael Dunning
 

I can talk more about this with respect to the changes in canard performance if people are interested.

 

Cheers,

Jay


Jay: Looking at your PDF, did you just smooth out the cusp or do something more drastic?

--
-MD
#2827 (still thinking about planning on visualizing how to finish building)


Jay Scheevel
 

Basically, yes. Just removed the under camber on the elevator. The rest of the airfoil is unchanged (to facilitate only making a new elevator, not the whole wing). This is not the only consideration though. The change also has an effect on the pitching moment and the effective lift polar and maximum lift to drag. These all will affect the way the canard performs in flight. There is no free lunch.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Michael
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 4:20 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Re designed midspan elevator pivot

 

I can talk more about this with respect to the changes in canard performance if people are interested.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

Jay: Looking at your PDF, did you just smooth out the cusp or do something more drastic?

--
-MD
#2827 (still thinking about planning on visualizing how to finish building)


Bill Higdon
 

Jay,

In looking at the photo's & the data sheets for the nut plates, I'm wondering what size of stainless steel strap & nut plate did you use in your final version?

Bill Higdon


Jay Scheevel
 

Hi Bill,

 

0.31” X0.5”stainless strap. take the edges/corners off with emery cloth. The nutplate is  a MS21055L3 two lug all metal corner anchor (AN3 bolt, don’t remember the length, but yours may vary). Install the corner 45 degrees to the long dimension of the strap with flush rivets on the inside surface of the strap.

 

Fit everything together before you drill the strap so that you know it does not have any slop in the assembly. Do this before you install the phenolic anchor (modified CS 17) on the shear web, so you can do it all in a vice.

 

When you are installing the anchor (CS 17) on the shear web, you will be doing so using flox. Before you install this anchor, make sure you have already installed the inboard and outboard pivots permanently. Then, when you install the CS 17 before the flox sets up fully, install the midspan assembly complete with strap and move the elevator through its range several times, so that you are assured of perfect alignment once the flox is fully cured.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Higdon via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2022 12:02 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Re designed midspan elevator pivot

 

Jay,

In looking at the photo's & the data sheets for the nut plates, I'm wondering what size of stainless steel strap & nut plate did you use in your final version?

Bill Higdon