Some Qs


Tim
 

Hi All,

I have a few questions which have come up during my completion…

1) Stick extension - I have noticed on the Q tours (thanks for those Sam and all) that some have the extension on the front of the stick and some don’t. I can see it in the LS1 plans. My Tri-Q200 with LS1 (dual elevator rods) doesn’t have this, the previous owner says it meets the control throw limits, but I have it in bits at the minute and didn’t check. Why was this mod introduced? (Avoids having to cut a tunnel into the tank?) 

2) Tail cone bolts - again in the tours I see some have the per plans dome headed screws and some you can’t see, have people fitting countersunk machine screws instead and filled over the heads?

3) My nose leg has a phenolic disc (adjusts deck angle?) plain washers and then 4-5 ‘cupped’ washers. I can’t see reference to this assembly in the plans, should I have this number of the cup washer or just one each side of the gear, I assume these allow you to preload the assembly without clamping down on it too much.

Thanks for reading! Tim


Sam Hoskins
 

1.) Can you be more specific about the stick extension you're referring to?

2.)  Many of us have flat head screws on the front portion of the attachment, with pan head screws on the back.

3.)  Sorry, I'm not a Tri-Q guy. Photos are helpful.

Sam

On Sat, Jun 12, 2021 at 4:42 PM Tim <timmrlw@...> wrote:
Hi All,

I have a few questions which have come up during my completion…

1) Stick extension - I have noticed on the Q tours (thanks for those Sam and all) that some have the extension on the front of the stick and some don’t. I can see it in the LS1 plans. My Tri-Q200 with LS1 (dual elevator rods) doesn’t have this, the previous owner says it meets the control throw limits, but I have it in bits at the minute and didn’t check. Why was this mod introduced? (Avoids having to cut a tunnel into the tank?) 

2) Tail cone bolts - again in the tours I see some have the per plans dome headed screws and some you can’t see, have people fitting countersunk machine screws instead and filled over the heads?

3) My nose leg has a phenolic disc (adjusts deck angle?) plain washers and then 4-5 ‘cupped’ washers. I can’t see reference to this assembly in the plans, should I have this number of the cup washer or just one each side of the gear, I assume these allow you to preload the assembly without clamping down on it too much.

Thanks for reading! Tim


Bruce Crain
 

3-  yes the phenolic is to raise the angle of attack on the ground.  You should know that if the nose gear wheel pant is in place it can come into contact with the prop.  I drilled and tapped a bolt in the top of the fork after cutting away a part of the large welded washer (maybe 90 degrees which leaves 45 degrees left and right of center when turning on the ground).  The tapped bolt is centered in the cutaway up close to the cut back washer so that the ends of the cutaway stops the fork before it turns far enough to contact the prop with the wheel pant.
Because of the above scenario the phenolic is the only thing between the large welded washer and the top of the fork.  You shouldn’t try to cut the cupped spring washers as they will cut into the things they are contacted.  So that leaves the cupped washers underneath the fork.
Hope this helps.  
Bruce


On Jun 13, 2021, at 4:32 PM, Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...> wrote:


1.) Can you be more specific about the stick extension you're referring to?

2.)  Many of us have flat head screws on the front portion of the attachment, with pan head screws on the back.

3.)  Sorry, I'm not a Tri-Q guy. Photos are helpful.

Sam

On Sat, Jun 12, 2021 at 4:42 PM Tim <timmrlw@...> wrote:
Hi All,

I have a few questions which have come up during my completion…

1) Stick extension - I have noticed on the Q tours (thanks for those Sam and all) that some have the extension on the front of the stick and some don’t. I can see it in the LS1 plans. My Tri-Q200 with LS1 (dual elevator rods) doesn’t have this, the previous owner says it meets the control throw limits, but I have it in bits at the minute and didn’t check. Why was this mod introduced? (Avoids having to cut a tunnel into the tank?) 

2) Tail cone bolts - again in the tours I see some have the per plans dome headed screws and some you can’t see, have people fitting countersunk machine screws instead and filled over the heads?

3) My nose leg has a phenolic disc (adjusts deck angle?) plain washers and then 4-5 ‘cupped’ washers. I can’t see reference to this assembly in the plans, should I have this number of the cup washer or just one each side of the gear, I assume these allow you to preload the assembly without clamping down on it too much.

Thanks for reading! Tim




Jay Scheevel
 

Hi Tim,

Question number one. Refer to page 168 in the following document: 

http://n8wq.scheevel.com/documents/Q2_Q200_Plans_Abridged_for_Scheevel_Construction.pdf
That will give you the layout for the elevator control that was standard with the Tri-Q plans. I did not build mine that way, but I just cut a tunnel in the top of the main tank and used the original Q-200 control system, but Tri-q2's with both types of elevator controls exist. If you build it per Tri-Q plans, make sure you carefully bond the support that is on the canard in a very robust way. We had one builder that had that support delaminate on him and nearly ended his first flight tragically. 

Second question. Tail cone screws. All planes that I have seen have the screws done per plans, but some, including mine have the fixed screws that are on the forward fuselage section filled and painted over. If it did it again, I would not do this, as they look better as screws than they do as "bumps" under the paint. 

Third question. The nose gear setup varies from plane to plane. The cupped washers are known as belleville washers in the hardware world. You can find more if you need them at Mcmaster Carr. The shape provides a spring effect when you tighten down on them. They are best placed on top of the nose fork, since that is where the spring is most needed. The phenolic is more of a spacer that allows everything to be set up and tightened without running out of threads when you tighten the large stop nut on the bottom of the assembly. Your gear is a velocity style gear, and if you want to see how velocity recommends setting the belleville washers and the phenolic, take a look on velocity aircraft website. They have some plans there. If you can't find them, let me know during the week when I am on my work computer and I can send you a document with the layout. Critical in the setup of the nose gear is to have the fork pivot angle set up right. Have a look at the plans in the document link above and you will see the recommendation (this is refering to the old style fork, not the velocity one you have, but the angle recommendation remains the same). This prevents it from shimmying too much. 

Cheers,
Jay Scheevel, Tri-Q2 N8WQ 150 hours. 



On Sat, 12 Jun 2021 14:42:38 -0700, "Tim" <timmrlw@...> wrote:

Hi All,

I have a few questions which have come up during my completion…

1) Stick extension - I have noticed on the Q tours (thanks for those Sam and all) that some have the extension on the front of the stick and some don’t. I can see it in the LS1 plans. My Tri-Q200 with LS1 (dual elevator rods) doesn’t have this, the previous owner says it meets the control throw limits, but I have it in bits at the minute and didn’t check. Why was this mod introduced? (Avoids having to cut a tunnel into the tank?) 

2) Tail cone bolts - again in the tours I see some have the per plans dome headed screws and some you can’t see, have people fitting countersunk machine screws instead and filled over the heads?

3) My nose leg has a phenolic disc (adjusts deck angle?) plain washers and then 4-5 ‘cupped’ washers. I can’t see reference to this assembly in the plans, should I have this number of the cup washer or just one each side of the gear, I assume these allow you to preload the assembly without clamping down on it too much.

Thanks for reading! Tim


Tim
 

Hi Sam,

Hopefully the photo works, I mean the plate welded to the front of the tube.



Thanks Bruce and Jay - I’ll have a look out for those plans and do a bit more research.

Cheers, Tim


Jay Scheevel
 

I suspect someone substituted a piece of tubing for the stick component. Take a look at the bottom, where the stick pivots forward and back. There should be a little steel tube (full length bush) welded in there that captures the transverse AN3 bolt at the base of the stick. If that bush is not there, then you have a not got an original part, just a tube. The plate with 3 holes welded on the front and the bush in the base were present on all kits as far as I know.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2021 12:23 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Some Qs

 

Hi Sam,

Hopefully the photo works, I mean the plate welded to the front of the tube.



Thanks Bruce and Jay - I’ll have a look out for those plans and do a bit more research.

Cheers, Tim


Jay Scheevel
 

Hi Tim,

 

Here is the diagram from the Velocity XL plans. This is how I have mine set up, there are no phenolic spacers. I have replaced the phenolic spacers with 1/8” thick steel washers having the same ID and OD as the phenolic. Depending on how your gear fork is made, you may want to use the phenolic to get the nut in the sweet spot of the threads.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jay Scheevel
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2021 6:54 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Some Qs

 

Hi Tim,

Question number one. Refer to page 168 in the following document: 

http://n8wq.scheevel.com/documents/Q2_Q200_Plans_Abridged_for_Scheevel_Construction.pdf
That will give you the layout for the elevator control that was standard with the Tri-Q plans. I did not build mine that way, but I just cut a tunnel in the top of the main tank and used the original Q-200 control system, but Tri-q2's with both types of elevator controls exist. If you build it per Tri-Q plans, make sure you carefully bond the support that is on the canard in a very robust way. We had one builder that had that support delaminate on him and nearly ended his first flight tragically. 

Second question. Tail cone screws. All planes that I have seen have the screws done per plans, but some, including mine have the fixed screws that are on the forward fuselage section filled and painted over. If it did it again, I would not do this, as they look better as screws than they do as "bumps" under the paint. 

Third question. The nose gear setup varies from plane to plane. The cupped washers are known as belleville washers in the hardware world. You can find more if you need them at Mcmaster Carr. The shape provides a spring effect when you tighten down on them. They are best placed on top of the nose fork, since that is where the spring is most needed. The phenolic is more of a spacer that allows everything to be set up and tightened without running out of threads when you tighten the large stop nut on the bottom of the assembly. Your gear is a velocity style gear, and if you want to see how velocity recommends setting the belleville washers and the phenolic, take a look on velocity aircraft website. They have some plans there. If you can't find them, let me know during the week when I am on my work computer and I can send you a document with the layout. Critical in the setup of the nose gear is to have the fork pivot angle set up right. Have a look at the plans in the document link above and you will see the recommendation (this is refering to the old style fork, not the velocity one you have, but the angle recommendation remains the same). This prevents it from shimmying too much. 

Cheers,
Jay Scheevel, Tri-Q2 N8WQ 150 hours. 



On Sat, 12 Jun 2021 14:42:38 -0700, "Tim" <timmrlw@...> wrote:

Hi All,

I have a few questions which have come up during my completion…

1) Stick extension - I have noticed on the Q tours (thanks for those Sam and all) that some have the extension on the front of the stick and some don’t. I can see it in the LS1 plans. My Tri-Q200 with LS1 (dual elevator rods) doesn’t have this, the previous owner says it meets the control throw limits, but I have it in bits at the minute and didn’t check. Why was this mod introduced? (Avoids having to cut a tunnel into the tank?) 

2) Tail cone bolts - again in the tours I see some have the per plans dome headed screws and some you can’t see, have people fitting countersunk machine screws instead and filled over the heads?

3) My nose leg has a phenolic disc (adjusts deck angle?) plain washers and then 4-5 ‘cupped’ washers. I can’t see reference to this assembly in the plans, should I have this number of the cup washer or just one each side of the gear, I assume these allow you to preload the assembly without clamping down on it too much.

Thanks for reading! Tim

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Tim
 

Thanks Jay - very helpful.
Will see how it looks at the weekend.


Tim
 

Hi Jay,

Looks like it has the bush.
Has been welded and ground flat on the outsides.

Cheers, Tim


Jay Scheevel
 

Yep, that’s how it’s supposed to be at the bottom of the stack. I don’t see any reason you can’t put it together with push rods either side of the stick where your current attach bolt is, but I have never seen one done that way.

Cheers,
Jay


On Jun 19, 2021, at 2:21 PM, Tim <timmrlw@...> wrote:

Hi Jay,

Looks like it has the bush.
Has been welded and ground flat on the outsides.

Cheers, Tim

<6796FA1B-EB04-447E-A166-403D3FE106FA.jpeg>


Richard Thomson
 

    Hi Tim,

    Is that a 1/4" bolt for your control rods ?

    Rich T.

On 19/06/2021 21:21, Tim wrote:
Hi Jay,

Looks like it has the bush.
Has been welded and ground flat on the outsides.

Cheers, Tim


Tim
 

Hi Rich,

I’m pretty sure it is 3/16” , but being at home now I can’t double check.
Plans say AN3 I believe.
Not yet on to elevator controls proper, still doing aileron bits.

Tim


Richard Thomson
 

    Hi Tim,

    It is 3/16 on mine, but aware some have gone to 1/4. I have been chewing over this as it seems a good idea.

    Good luck with your build.

    Rich T.

On 20/06/2021 20:51, Tim wrote:
Hi Rich,

I’m pretty sure it is 3/16” , but being at home now I can’t double check.
Plans say AN3 I believe.
Not yet on to elevator controls proper, still doing aileron bits.

Tim


Tim
 

Thanks Jay.

So finally got to a point today where I had elevator control rods ready.
It appears if they are fitted either side of the stick tube it creates excessive elevator movement when you roll… I think the design means that the elevators will move when the stick is moved for roll, but my elevator arms are moving about 10mm.

Having the plate at the front of the stick and thus the two rods closer together helps reduce this, I think… So will get that fitted.

Do you know how thick the plate is? I have your photos for the 2D plan, but not the thickness.


Jay Scheevel
 

That plate is either 3/32 or 1/8”, but I am not at the airport now, so cannot measure it. The material is 4130 steel and is welded  along its length to the stick tube. It is very strong once it is welded in place so the thickness, if close to 3/32 is going to work fine.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim
Sent: Wednesday, October 6, 2021 1:16 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Some Qs

 

Thanks Jay.

So finally got to a point today where I had elevator control rods ready.
It appears if they are fitted either side of the stick tube it creates excessive elevator movement when you roll… I think the design means that the elevators will move when the stick is moved for roll, but my elevator arms are moving about 10mm.

Having the plate at the front of the stick and thus the two rods closer together helps reduce this, I think… So will get that fitted.

Do you know how thick the plate is? I have your photos for the 2D plan, but not the thickness.


Tim
 

Managed to get the control rods the correct length today and then fit the spring pitch trim.

I notice the elevator horns move about 1/2” relative to each other when rolling, I know the plans suggest this will happen but is that about the right amount? It just seems a bit wired, but seems to come with the design.

Thanks, Tim


Jay Scheevel
 

Hi Tim,

 

Mine move like yours also. Not sure the amount, since I did not measure it, but it is primarily to be only significant in full roll deflection. You will notice the deflection of the elevators is sympathetic to the ailerons (in the same sense), so I really would not worry about it. If you are in the very rare circumstance that calls for full bank, you are probably looking for all the help you can get, so  a little deflection on the elevators is probably a good thing. I think if you poll the Tri-Q drivers in the group, you will find that they all have similar observations.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 11:36 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Some Qs

 

Managed to get the control rods the correct length today and then fit the spring pitch trim.

I notice the elevator horns move about 1/2” relative to each other when rolling, I know the plans suggest this will happen but is that about the right amount? It just seems a bit wired, but seems to come with the design.

Thanks, Tim


Mike Dwyer
 

The elevator movement when roll input is used adds to the roll rate of the aircraft.  Makes it have good roll rate even at landing speeds.
Mike Dwyer Q200


On Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 1:35 PM Tim <timmrlw@...> wrote:
Managed to get the control rods the correct length today and then fit the spring pitch trim.

I notice the elevator horns move about 1/2” relative to each other when rolling, I know the plans suggest this will happen but is that about the right amount? It just seems a bit wired, but seems to come with the design.

Thanks, Tim


smeshno1@...
 

Hmm.. I am wondering if the dual side stick Dragonfly design also has "auto lift" in the roll?  What say the SME? 

Vern
going slowly crazier in the rainy Pacific Northwest. Growing webbed feet and toes again! 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 2:49 PM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Some Qs
 

Hi Tim,

 

Mine move like yours also. Not sure the amount, since I did not measure it, but it is primarily to be only significant in full roll deflection. You will notice the deflection of the elevators is sympathetic to the ailerons (in the same sense), so I really would not worry about it. If you are in the very rare circumstance that calls for full bank, you are probably looking for all the help you can get, so  a little deflection on the elevators is probably a good thing. I think if you poll the Tri-Q drivers in the group, you will find that they all have similar observations.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 11:36 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Some Qs

 

Managed to get the control rods the correct length today and then fit the spring pitch trim.

I notice the elevator horns move about 1/2” relative to each other when rolling, I know the plans suggest this will happen but is that about the right amount? It just seems a bit wired, but seems to come with the design.

Thanks, Tim