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Tailwheel Attachment Part Machining?
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My tailspring broke where the old tailwheel was attached, so missing about 2 inches for my new tailwheel plus the ID of the attachment is 5/8" when the remaining spring is not quite 3/4". See picture for the dilemma ...
 So my current thinking is to have the following part machined (yes I'll make a real CAD drawing for it, but the whiteboard was closer than CAD) ...  Anyone here a machining expert? CAD drawing will be provided to load ;-) Thanks Robert -- Robert "TheFrisco" Schmid (408) 805-5450 www.facebook.com/TheFlyingFriscos www.theflyingfriscos.com Love building planes almost as much as flying. Latest completed build is "Loki", a Chinook Plus 2 bush plane. |
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The tailwheel guys will pipe up soon, but I will tell you now that the tail spring will break where the local load concentration is the highest. If you have a stiff sleave and you put it over the softer tail spring material, it will continue to break at that joint. You need to do a different design. Those new design recommendations will be coming from the experienced guys on this list in 3, 2, 1…..
Cheers, Jay
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert Schmid
Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2022 4:55 PM To: main@Q-List.groups.io Subject: [Q-List] Tailwheel Attachment Part Machining?
My tailspring broke where the old tailwheel was attached, so missing about 2 inches for my new tailwheel plus the ID of the attachment is 5/8" when the remaining spring is not quite 3/4". See picture for the dilemma ... |
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Frankenbird has a solid machined round tapered spring steel detail. The issue with my revision possibly
to Roberts' aircraft however is the added mass aft of the Datum. In my case, the 6 cylinder engine is about
25 US Lbs heavier than a Continental O-200. My battery
will be aft and that item will be the final W&B "control"
but I admit I planned on the heavier solid spring to resolve two items..C/G and the one we see in the photo,
robustness.
Robert..what is your intended powerplant firewall forward? By that I mean the entire system..NOT just
the basic shipping weight.
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2022 6:01 PM To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> Subject: Re: [Q-List] Tailwheel Attachment Part Machining? The tailwheel guys will pipe up soon, but I will tell you now that the tail spring will break where the local load concentration is the highest. If you have a stiff sleave and you put it over the softer tail spring material, it will continue to break at that joint. You need to do a different design. Those new design recommendations will be coming from the experienced guys on this list in 3, 2, 1…..
Cheers, Jay
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Robert Schmid
My tailspring broke where the old tailwheel was attached, so missing about 2 inches for my new tailwheel plus the ID of the attachment is 5/8" when the remaining spring is not quite 3/4". See picture for the dilemma ... |
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First off, find a slightly heavier fiberglass rod. Maybe an inch more in diameter. But not too much, otherwise it'll be too stiff. You're going to have to drill out the old spring, not fun, but not impossible. Fit the new spring in and add twice as many wraps of bid that the plans call for. As far as the tail wheel goes, Make a new socket for the spring. Simply get a piece of steel tubing that will slip over the spring itself. Make a new socket assembly just like the old one, except for the larger tube. Everything else stays the same. And this is why you need differential brakes and a method to separate the rudder from the tail wheel. Sam On Wed, Jun 8, 2022, 5:54 PM Robert Schmid <robert@...> wrote: My tailspring broke where the old tailwheel was attached, so missing about 2 inches for my new tailwheel plus the ID of the attachment is 5/8" when the remaining spring is not quite 3/4". See picture for the dilemma ... |
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Robert, I have a 5/8” spring steel rod that I installed many years ago. You saw it when you looked at my plane. I think it was about 30” long. Look at the original plan as a guide before installing so you know how the glass rod was installed.
Cut off the fiberglass spring flush and square. Slowly drill out the glass rod starting with a smaller bit trying to stay in the center of the rod. The finished diameter needs to be a little larger than the 5/8” glass rod for a good bond. Use
a Dremel and lightly cross hatch the rod for bonding . Pack the hole with flox and insert the rod. Glass the rod around the mating surfaces for a clean transition.
Note the rod can be longer than 30” and cut after installation. It will fit your tail wheel perfectly. Drill a hole for an AN 4 bolt and install. You will also want to install two ply of UNI under the fuselage to strengthen the underbelly. This
is a clean way to do this.
I tail wheel land and the spring has taken some punishment over the years. It is still working with no bends or cracks in the fuselage.
Jim
N46JP Q200
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2022 6:35:14 AM To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io> Subject: Re: [Q-List] Tailwheel Attachment Part Machining? First off, find a slightly heavier fiberglass rod. Maybe an inch more in diameter. But not too much, otherwise it'll be too stiff. You're going to have to drill out the old spring, not fun, but not impossible. Fit the new spring in and add twice
as many wraps of bid that the plans call for.
As far as the tail wheel goes, Make a new socket for the spring. Simply get a piece of steel tubing that will slip over the spring itself. Make a new socket assembly just like the old one, except for the larger tube. Everything else stays the
same.
And this is why you need differential brakes and a method to separate the rudder from the tail wheel.
Sam
On Wed, Jun 8, 2022, 5:54 PM Robert Schmid <robert@...> wrote:
My tailspring broke where the old tailwheel was attached, so missing about 2 inches for my new tailwheel plus the ID of the attachment is 5/8" when the remaining spring is not quite 3/4". See picture for the dilemma ... |
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From: Jim Patillo <logistics_engineering@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2022 9:25:39 AM To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> Subject: Re: [Q-List] Tailwheel Attachment Part Machining? Robert, I have a 5/8” spring steel rod that I installed many years ago. You saw it when you looked at my plane. I think it was about 30” long. Look at the original plan as a guide before installing so you know how the glass rod was installed.
Cut off the fiberglass spring flush and square. Slowly drill out the glass rod starting with a smaller bit trying to stay in the center of the rod. The finished diameter needs to be a little larger than the 5/8” glass rod for a good bond. Use
a Dremel and lightly cross hatch the rod for bonding . Pack the hole with flox and insert the rod. Glass the rod around the mating surfaces for a clean transition.
Note the rod can be longer than 30” and cut after installation. It will fit your tail wheel perfectly. Drill a hole for an AN 4 bolt and install. You will also want to install two ply of UNI under the fuselage to strengthen the underbelly. This
is a clean way to do this.
I tail wheel land and the spring has taken some punishment over the years. It is still working with no bends or cracks in the fuselage.
Jim
N46JP Q200
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2022 6:35:14 AM To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io> Subject: Re: [Q-List] Tailwheel Attachment Part Machining? First off, find a slightly heavier fiberglass rod. Maybe an inch more in diameter. But not too much, otherwise it'll be too stiff. You're going to have to drill out the old spring, not fun, but not impossible. Fit the new spring in and add twice
as many wraps of bid that the plans call for.
As far as the tail wheel goes, Make a new socket for the spring. Simply get a piece of steel tubing that will slip over the spring itself. Make a new socket assembly just like the old one, except for the larger tube. Everything else stays the
same.
And this is why you need differential brakes and a method to separate the rudder from the tail wheel.
Sam
On Wed, Jun 8, 2022, 5:54 PM Robert Schmid <robert@...> wrote:
My tailspring broke where the old tailwheel was attached, so missing about 2 inches for my new tailwheel plus the ID of the attachment is 5/8" when the remaining spring is not quite 3/4". See picture for the dilemma ... |
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Drilling out the rod ... hmmm, wanted to avoid it but I see the benefit, one less part in the middle of it. |
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Make a metal sleeve that fits over the stub with inner sleeve to guide the drill down the centerline. Progressively drill it out HF has cheap long drill bits that will dull out in seconds, or carbide tipped drill bits from Granger.
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Start drilling crooked and you will have a hard time correcting it. Regards, On Thursday, June 9, 2022, 9:36 AM, Robert Schmid <robert@...> wrote:
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Dave Dugas
I broke 2 tail springs in the first 40 hours, using the original rod and layup schedule per plans. I drilled out the old junk and replaced it with some structural 5/8" rod used for guy wire insulation. I used 5 plies BID and epoxied it in. Now I have over 1100 hours since replacing it. I have some if you can't locate any.... Dave D
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Mike Steinsland
How are you guys floxing the tail spring in?
My plans aren't showing how far the spring goes into the tail. I'm going to install a tube and then a 5/8' spring steel rod inside that. How far in should I install it? Looks like a big hole in there, is it completely filled with flox? How did you get the flox in there, a syringe/ pump of some sort? Or did you "spoon" it in and then allow it to squeeze out when the spring was inserted? |
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Robert Cringely
Unless you need the weight back there, do what the Sonex guys do, order an untapered 5/8th rod from Titanium Joe: https://www.titaniumjoe.com/index.cfm/titanium-products/bar/ Uncertified will do, they'll cut it to length for you, it will never rust, and the Sonex guys swear no tapering is required. Bob On Wed, Jun 8, 2022 at 6:54 PM Robert Schmid <robert@...> wrote: My tailspring broke where the old tailwheel was attached, so missing about 2 inches for my new tailwheel plus the ID of the attachment is 5/8" when the remaining spring is not quite 3/4". See picture for the dilemma ... |
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Mike Steinsland
Thanks for mentioning that Robert ! I like that they have a location in Canada too ....and its nearby Now that you've mentioned that I'm thinking that having a tube in the fuselage makes even more sense as it will allow me to change the spring to a heavier or lighter one if the W&B dictates On Mon., Dec. 12, 2022, 2:42 p.m. Robert Cringely, <bob@...> wrote:
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Robert Cringely
Not a tube, it’s a solid rod. Of course you can mount it in a tube. Be warned that titanium is a bitch to drill. Bob On Mon, Dec 12, 2022 at 3:22 PM Mike Steinsland <MIKESKUSTOMS@...> wrote:
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Bill Allen
Just going through the same thing myself, modifying an “RV” Doug Bell” tail wheel to keep the tail as low as possible to get max GAA….   On Thu, 9 Jun 2022 at 00:54, Robert Schmid <robert@...> wrote: My tailspring broke where the old tailwheel was attached, so missing about 2 inches for my new tailwheel plus the ID of the attachment is 5/8" when the remaining spring is not quite 3/4". See picture for the dilemma ... --
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Hi Mike,
If you want to give me a call, I will be happy to explain exactly how to put the tail spring in.
Jim
N46JP Q200
510-468-4891
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Mike Steinsland <MIKESKUSTOMS@...>
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2022 11:15:33 AM To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> Subject: Re: [Q-List] Tailwheel Attachment Part Machining? How are you guys floxing the tail spring in?
My plans aren't showing how far the spring goes into the tail. I'm going to install a tube and then a 5/8' spring steel rod inside that. How far in should I install it? Looks like a big hole in there, is it completely filled with flox? How did you get the flox in there, a syringe/ pump of some sort? Or did you "spoon" it in and then allow it to squeeze out when the spring was inserted? |
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Mike Dwyer
Hi Mike, One thing is don't worry about the weight your adding there as Q200's need weight in the tail. My Glass spring was stuck in about 1.5 foot. It did break where it was stupidly fit into the steel tube going to the tail wheel assy. I fixed that by doubling the diameter of the fiberglass rod and welding in a larger tube to the tail wheel. Also the factory tail wheel pivots on an AN3 bolt. I bent that bolt often. Needs to be an AN4 at least. Oh, and I had the lower rudder hinge break loose from the attachment to the plane. Beef that up while your at it. Fly Safe, Mike Dwyer YouTube Videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/FlyMeAirplane/videos Q200 Website: http://goo.gl/V8IrJF On Mon, Dec 12, 2022 at 2:15 PM Mike Steinsland <MIKESKUSTOMS@...> wrote: How are you guys floxing the tail spring in? |
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Ya.. you'll play hell in trying to bend titanium..lots of springy going on. It also anodizes
really easy to some nice
colors if you like.
From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Mike Steinsland <MIKESKUSTOMS@...>
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2022 2:21 PM To: main@Q-List.groups.io Group Moderators <main@q-list.groups.io> Subject: Re: [Q-List] Tailwheel Attachment Part Machining? Thanks for mentioning that Robert !
I like that they have a location in Canada too ....and its nearby
Now that you've mentioned that I'm thinking that having a tube in the fuselage makes even more sense as it will allow me to change the spring to a heavier or lighter one if the W&B dictates
On Mon., Dec. 12, 2022, 2:42 p.m. Robert Cringely, <bob@...> wrote:
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Mike Steinsland
Thanks Mike That's the next area I'm going to go over once I have the tail wheel done. What did you do to beef it up? On Mon., Dec. 12, 2022, 4:10 p.m. Mike Dwyer, <q200pilot@...> wrote:
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