Vortex Generators (VGs) on the GU Canard


Michael
 


Brent Sherstan
 

That’s some great info Michael, thank you. The original instructions were very specific, I wonder why they specified placing the VG’s at two different angles? Maybe each set would be more effective at a slightly different airspeed? I don’t recall seeing that on any other aircraft.

It appears that my somewhat aft-looking VG’s might actually be fairly close to the placement as prescribed by QAC, whether that is actually the optimum placing anymore is the question.

Brent 


 

Hi Brent,
 
If interested I can send a photo of the template I made for applying the VG'S on my Quickie GU which skipped
every other pair and took into account the sweep of the Quickie canard by having the VG's straight with the air flow. 
In regards to the question of the difference in the angles, that took into account the sweep of the canard.
The VG's must be angled straight with the air flow which is why one is angled different from the other.
 
The alternate spacing was tested in rain and performed perfectly with no trim change needed.
That test came kinda unexpectedly when I was flying half way back to Davenport with Terry one weekend when he flew his
Quickie to Terre Haute for something some time in the mid to late 90's.  On the way we ran into some popcorn thunderstorms
operating in the Champaign, IL area and decided to try em out thinking skirting the storms was safe enough if I needed to
get back to clean air quickly.  Like I said, they performed perfectly and the rest is history.
 
I might add that the VG's made an immediate difference on takeoff as he canard began to fly very quickly as compared to before.
That took some getting used to.
 
If you would like a copy I will need to get to the airport first to get it.
Thanks, Keith


---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Brent Sherstan" <brent.sherstan@...>
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Vortex Generators (VGs) on the GU Canard
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 20:20:07 -0700

That’s some great info Michael, thank you. The original instructions were very specific, I wonder why they specified placing the VG’s at two different angles? Maybe each set would be more effective at a slightly different airspeed? I don’t recall seeing that on any other aircraft.

It appears that my somewhat aft-looking VG’s might actually be fairly close to the placement as prescribed by QAC, whether that is actually the optimum placing anymore is the question.

Brent 




Jay Scheevel
 

Thanks for the “eye-witness” account, Keith. Observations are worth their weight in gold!

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Keith Welsh
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2021 6:20 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Vortex Generators (VGs) on the GU Canard

 

Hi Brent,

 

If interested I can send a photo of the template I made for applying the VG'S on my Quickie GU which skipped

every other pair and took into account the sweep of the Quickie canard by having the VG's straight with the air flow. 

In regards to the question of the difference in the angles, that took into account the sweep of the canard.

The VG's must be angled straight with the air flow which is why one is angled different from the other.

 

The alternate spacing was tested in rain and performed perfectly with no trim change needed.

That test came kinda unexpectedly when I was flying half way back to Davenport with Terry one weekend when he flew his

Quickie to Terre Haute for something some time in the mid to late 90's.  On the way we ran into some popcorn thunderstorms

operating in the Champaign, IL area and decided to try em out thinking skirting the storms was safe enough if I needed to

get back to clean air quickly.  Like I said, they performed perfectly and the rest is history.

 

I might add that the VG's made an immediate difference on takeoff as he canard began to fly very quickly as compared to before.

That took some getting used to.

 

If you would like a copy I will need to get to the airport first to get it.

Thanks, Keith

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Brent Sherstan" <brent.sherstan@...>
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Vortex Generators (VGs) on the GU Canard
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 20:20:07 -0700

That’s some great info Michael, thank you. The original instructions were very specific, I wonder why they specified placing the VG’s at two different angles? Maybe each set would be more effective at a slightly different airspeed? I don’t recall seeing that on any other aircraft.

It appears that my somewhat aft-looking VG’s might actually be fairly close to the placement as prescribed by QAC, whether that is actually the optimum placing anymore is the question.

Brent 

 


Sam Hoskins
 

Mike,

Thanks for that list.  I created a folder in the Q-List files section and placed the VG drawings and articles there.  https://q-list.groups.io/g/main/files/Vortex%20Generators

FYI - there is a lot of useful information in the Q-List files section.  I encourage you all to browse through it.  https://q-list.groups.io/g/main/files

Have a good day.

Sam



On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 8:24 PM Michael <dunningme@...> wrote:
I was surprised no one posted the actual QAC instructions for VG placement in Brent Sherstan's Introduction thread and figured the discussion warranted its own post. Hope it helps.

Original QAC VG Install Instructions (web version)

Original QAC VG Install Instructions (PDF)

Other related info:

Canard Contamination, Part 1 (Theory and Explanation, PDF, Dragonfly Newsletter 111 Pages 9-12)

Canard Contamination, Part 2 (VG Construction and Testing, PDF, Dragonfly Newsletter 112 Pages 1-8)

Nate Rambo’s Vortex Generators (PDF, Dragonfly)

--
-MD
#2827 (still thinking about planning on visualizing how to finish building)


Jay Scheevel
 

Thanks Sam. I have a really good research paper on the aerodynamics, wind tunnel testing and use of vg’s on the LS1 airfoil that I will put in that folder. Trivia tidbit: Most of the power generation windmills that you see around use the LS1 airfoil on the blades.

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sam Hoskins
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2021 9:06 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Vortex Generators (VGs) on the GU Canard

 

Mike,

 

Thanks for that list.  I created a folder in the Q-List files section and placed the VG drawings and articles there.  https://q-list.groups.io/g/main/files/Vortex%20Generators

 

FYI - there is a lot of useful information in the Q-List files section.  I encourage you all to browse through it.  https://q-list.groups.io/g/main/files

 

Have a good day.

 

Sam

 

 

 

On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 8:24 PM Michael <dunningme@...> wrote:

I was surprised no one posted the actual QAC instructions for VG placement in Brent Sherstan's Introduction thread and figured the discussion warranted its own post. Hope it helps.

Original QAC VG Install Instructions (web version)

Original QAC VG Install Instructions (PDF)

Other related info:

Canard Contamination, Part 1 (Theory and Explanation, PDF, Dragonfly Newsletter 111 Pages 9-12)

Canard Contamination, Part 2 (VG Construction and Testing, PDF, Dragonfly Newsletter 112 Pages 1-8)

Nate Rambo’s Vortex Generators (PDF, Dragonfly)

--
-MD
#2827 (still thinking about planning on visualizing how to finish building)


Brent Sherstan
 

Hi Keith, yes I’d love to see a photo of your template when you get a chance. 


thanks,
Brent


smeshno1@...
 

 Keith.. the Engineer types here might see if we can transpose your template to upload. One way to do that is perhaps lay a scale on the surface just forward (or aft) of the
VG template photo. What height are your VG's and what material used?  Interesting flight report too. Thank you.  Your canard lifting earlier in the takeoff has added some 
margin to the runway required. I'd be curious to see what happens at higher DA's, both before and after VG's.  

 By the way guys.. I made it (back) to the Pacific Northwest.. on Contract again at my old alma mater (Boeing Everett).  The parking lot sure looks a lot less crowded than it 
did when I was last here in 2013!  Back then there were hardly any parking places and folks were getting their cars hauled off for parking in no parking areas. 
 
One thing hasn't changed much tho..rained EVERY day since I arrived last Thursday.  

Vern
 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2021 9:10 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Vortex Generators (VGs) on the GU Canard
 

Thanks for the “eye-witness” account, Keith. Observations are worth their weight in gold!

 

Cheers,

Jay

 

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of Keith Welsh
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2021 6:20 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Vortex Generators (VGs) on the GU Canard

 

Hi Brent,

 

If interested I can send a photo of the template I made for applying the VG'S on my Quickie GU which skipped

every other pair and took into account the sweep of the Quickie canard by having the VG's straight with the air flow. 

In regards to the question of the difference in the angles, that took into account the sweep of the canard.

The VG's must be angled straight with the air flow which is why one is angled different from the other.

 

The alternate spacing was tested in rain and performed perfectly with no trim change needed.

That test came kinda unexpectedly when I was flying half way back to Davenport with Terry one weekend when he flew his

Quickie to Terre Haute for something some time in the mid to late 90's.  On the way we ran into some popcorn thunderstorms

operating in the Champaign, IL area and decided to try em out thinking skirting the storms was safe enough if I needed to

get back to clean air quickly.  Like I said, they performed perfectly and the rest is history.

 

I might add that the VG's made an immediate difference on takeoff as he canard began to fly very quickly as compared to before.

That took some getting used to.

 

If you would like a copy I will need to get to the airport first to get it.

Thanks, Keith

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Brent Sherstan" <brent.sherstan@...>
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Vortex Generators (VGs) on the GU Canard
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 20:20:07 -0700

That’s some great info Michael, thank you. The original instructions were very specific, I wonder why they specified placing the VG’s at two different angles? Maybe each set would be more effective at a slightly different airspeed? I don’t recall seeing that on any other aircraft.

It appears that my somewhat aft-looking VG’s might actually be fairly close to the placement as prescribed by QAC, whether that is actually the optimum placing anymore is the question.

Brent 

 


smeshno1@...
 

  Correct if I am wrong on this but wasn't the move from GU to the LS early in the Q history? I remember reading in the Q newsletters about this change. 
 If it is the case then only a few Q2 would requirement for VGs' . In any case..thank you for the photos and info! I will be fabricating a similar
 locator and include it in my tooling.  Since my shells are not yet joined I have the support tools for those and a box of hotwire cut templates. 
  
Vern 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...>
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2021 10:06 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Vortex Generators (VGs) on the GU Canard
 
Mike,

Thanks for that list.  I created a folder in the Q-List files section and placed the VG drawings and articles there.  https://q-list.groups.io/g/main/files/Vortex%20Generators

FYI - there is a lot of useful information in the Q-List files section.  I encourage you all to browse through it.  https://q-list.groups.io/g/main/files

Have a good day.

Sam



On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 8:24 PM Michael <dunningme@...> wrote:
I was surprised no one posted the actual QAC instructions for VG placement in Brent Sherstan's Introduction thread and figured the discussion warranted its own post. Hope it helps.

Original QAC VG Install Instructions (web version)

Original QAC VG Install Instructions (PDF)

Other related info:

Canard Contamination, Part 1 (Theory and Explanation, PDF, Dragonfly Newsletter 111 Pages 9-12)

Canard Contamination, Part 2 (VG Construction and Testing, PDF, Dragonfly Newsletter 112 Pages 1-8)

Nate Rambo’s Vortex Generators (PDF, Dragonfly)

--
-MD
#2827 (still thinking about planning on visualizing how to finish building)


Jay Scheevel
 

The Q2 was introduced in October, 1980 with the GU canard and first deliveries were made in January, 1981. First disclosure by QAC of the existence of the LS1 canard was in October of 1982 after it had been built and flown on the prototype. Notably, there was no mention of using carbon fiber spars in the construction of the prototype Q2 LS1 canard in that initial announcement (QAC Quickie Newsletter #18).

 

QAC approved and began shipping Q2/Q200 kits with the LS1 canard in January of 1983. The LS1 canard accompanied the announcement of the Q200 and included an upgrade in gross weight and powerplant options.  I think they had shipped more than 400 Q2-GU kits by the time they started shipping LS1 canards, but this is just a guess.

 

I bought my Q200 kit in mid 1984 and it was serial number 2868, meaning it was the 868th  Q2/200 kit they had sold.

 

Many builders did not buy all the sub kits, but I bet it is safe to assume that at least 300 Q2 kits with GU canard were sold. How many were built and flown is anyone’s guess.

 

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 9:05 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Vortex Generators (VGs) on the GU Canard

 

  Correct if I am wrong on this but wasn't the move from GU to the LS early in the Q history? I remember reading in the Q newsletters about this change. 

 If it is the case then only a few Q2 would requirement for VGs' . In any case..thank you for the photos and info! I will be fabricating a similar

 locator and include it in my tooling.  Since my shells are not yet joined I have the support tools for those and a box of hotwire cut templates. 

  

Vern 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...>
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2021 10:06 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Vortex Generators (VGs) on the GU Canard

 

Mike,

 

Thanks for that list.  I created a folder in the Q-List files section and placed the VG drawings and articles there.  https://q-list.groups.io/g/main/files/Vortex%20Generators

 

FYI - there is a lot of useful information in the Q-List files section.  I encourage you all to browse through it.  https://q-list.groups.io/g/main/files

 

Have a good day.

 

Sam

 

 

 

On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 8:24 PM Michael <dunningme@...> wrote:

I was surprised no one posted the actual QAC instructions for VG placement in Brent Sherstan's Introduction thread and figured the discussion warranted its own post. Hope it helps.

Original QAC VG Install Instructions (web version)

Original QAC VG Install Instructions (PDF)

Other related info:

Canard Contamination, Part 1 (Theory and Explanation, PDF, Dragonfly Newsletter 111 Pages 9-12)

Canard Contamination, Part 2 (VG Construction and Testing, PDF, Dragonfly Newsletter 112 Pages 1-8)

Nate Rambo’s Vortex Generators (PDF, Dragonfly)

--
-MD
#2827 (still thinking about planning on visualizing how to finish building)


smeshno1@...
 

 From memory my project original buyer from QAC first invoiced also in 1984. No FWF, no spars, but does have orange foam cut rather ruff. No glass, no metal items. 

 I purchased it knowing these facts. More than all of this.. I have every purchase invoice and letter, original plans set, the correct kit number. All newsletters, option sketches of mods. 
The canopy is on the shell with forward hinge (that is going to change). All bulkheads are complete and do appear to be correct to Engineering. All 4 shells are present 
without extreme rash and the join plywood tools are made and identified. Total was $700 with some bargaining in the front parking lot at Luxor in Las Vegas where I 
met the seller half way back when I lived in Taos County.  

 Ironically QAC delivered the entire kit, engine also, to Henderson Nevada (10 miles from where I bought it)..then it went to California Central Valley, Taos and now Oklahoma. 
It is interesting to learn we may have "cousins" in serial numbers of the kits, Jay.  When I get back home I will verify the QAC serial and year of sale. I do remember the cost was 
well north of what I paid! 

Vern    


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 11:17 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Vortex Generators (VGs) on the GU Canard
 

The Q2 was introduced in October, 1980 with the GU canard and first deliveries were made in January, 1981. First disclosure by QAC of the existence of the LS1 canard was in October of 1982 after it had been built and flown on the prototype. Notably, there was no mention of using carbon fiber spars in the construction of the prototype Q2 LS1 canard in that initial announcement (QAC Quickie Newsletter #18).

 

QAC approved and began shipping Q2/Q200 kits with the LS1 canard in January of 1983. The LS1 canard accompanied the announcement of the Q200 and included an upgrade in gross weight and powerplant options.  I think they had shipped more than 400 Q2-GU kits by the time they started shipping LS1 canards, but this is just a guess.

 

I bought my Q200 kit in mid 1984 and it was serial number 2868, meaning it was the 868th  Q2/200 kit they had sold.

 

Many builders did not buy all the sub kits, but I bet it is safe to assume that at least 300 Q2 kits with GU canard were sold. How many were built and flown is anyone’s guess.

 

Cheers,

Jay

From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> On Behalf Of smeshno1@...
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 9:05 AM
To: main@Q-List.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Vortex Generators (VGs) on the GU Canard

 

  Correct if I am wrong on this but wasn't the move from GU to the LS early in the Q history? I remember reading in the Q newsletters about this change. 

 If it is the case then only a few Q2 would requirement for VGs' . In any case..thank you for the photos and info! I will be fabricating a similar

 locator and include it in my tooling.  Since my shells are not yet joined I have the support tools for those and a box of hotwire cut templates. 

  

Vern 


From: main@Q-List.groups.io <main@Q-List.groups.io> on behalf of Sam Hoskins <sam.hoskins@...>
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2021 10:06 AM
To: main@q-list.groups.io <main@q-list.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Q-List] Vortex Generators (VGs) on the GU Canard

 

Mike,

 

Thanks for that list.  I created a folder in the Q-List files section and placed the VG drawings and articles there.  https://q-list.groups.io/g/main/files/Vortex%20Generators

 

FYI - there is a lot of useful information in the Q-List files section.  I encourage you all to browse through it.  https://q-list.groups.io/g/main/files

 

Have a good day.

 

Sam

 

 

 

On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 8:24 PM Michael <dunningme@...> wrote:

I was surprised no one posted the actual QAC instructions for VG placement in Brent Sherstan's Introduction thread and figured the discussion warranted its own post. Hope it helps.

Original QAC VG Install Instructions (web version)

Original QAC VG Install Instructions (PDF)

Other related info:

Canard Contamination, Part 1 (Theory and Explanation, PDF, Dragonfly Newsletter 111 Pages 9-12)

Canard Contamination, Part 2 (VG Construction and Testing, PDF, Dragonfly Newsletter 112 Pages 1-8)

Nate Rambo’s Vortex Generators (PDF, Dragonfly)

--
-MD
#2827 (still thinking about planning on visualizing how to finish building)